does anyone actually see WiiU being successful?

[Hero_of_Darkness]

It's becoming less like a controller and more like the entire focus of your gameplay.

Not really. Most of the time, you'll still use your TV. In fact, from what I've heard, some ports are making extensive use of the controller, so you'll want to  play on your TV to get the most out of the game anyway.

[zephilicious]

The only thing it shares with a tablet is a screen, and even then it's low-res and resistive. It's nowhere near as advanced as the Kindle Fire. Besides that, there are $100 tablets, and the Wii Remote costs less than $10 to produce. It's more like Wii Remote Plus + 360 controller + a screen + whatever streaming tech they use. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you forgot that the controller can't stand on its own, since you'd have to be insane to think that Nintendo would bother with a controller that costs almost as much as a 3DS.

the contoller is effectively a 3DS with a weaker processor, no 3D, and a much larger screen.

[Hero_of_Darkness]

the contoller is effectively a 3DS with a weaker processor, no 3D, and a much larger screen.

"Weaker processor" is putting it extremely lightly. Also, what about the lack of a GPU, WiFi, flash memory, SD card slot, game card interface, RAM, and 3D cameras? And the fact that it has less components means a less complex motherboard. $100 is definitely impossible. Using your logic, the 3DS is just an iPad with a weaker processor, 3D, resistive touch, and much smaller screens. Do you see how ridiculous that sounds?

[Kayo]

The Wii U controller is just like my cell phone.

Only difference is it's bigger, has more buttons, and isn't a cell phone.

[zephilicious]

"Weaker processor" is putting it extremely lightly. Also, what about the lack of a GPU, WiFi, flash memory, SD card slot, game card interface, RAM, and 3D cameras? And the fact that it has less components means a less complex motherboard. $100 is definitely impossible. Using your logic, the 3DS is just an iPad with a weaker processor, 3D, resistive touch, and much smaller screens. Do you see how stupid that sounds?

nope that sounds pretty much right. the only other significant difference, admittedly missing in both my example and yours, is the ability to play 3ds games (the expensive part here is the stronger processor and the gpu). that is not half the cost of the 3DS. everything else you mentioned costs a dollar or two at most

aside from the price of the controller, we have to consider what goes into the console. the console needs to be as powerful as the wii, just to render the screen for one of these controllers. more powerful assuming resolution is not the only difference between the graphical capabilities of the two systems. for the system to be powerful enough to render an hd image to the tv and 4 sd images to the controllers, we're looking at double the power of the 360 or PS3, just to maintain last gen graphics. The console would have to launch at at least $400.

not only is that far too expensive, but most people wouldn't end up buying 3 more controllers (even at the $70 you suggest), so most of that extra hardware power just goes to waste.

[Kayo]

How cool are we for bashing a console before it even comes out? :|

[zephilicious]

who's bashing?

[Hero_of_Darkness]

nope that sounds pretty much right. the only other significant difference, admittedly missing in both my example and yours, is the ability to play 3ds games (the expensive part here is the stronger processor and the gpu). that is not half the cost of the 3DS. everything else you mentioned costs a dollar or two at most

aside from the price of the controller, we have to consider what goes into the console. the console needs to be as powerful as the wii, just to render the screen for one of these controllers. more powerful assuming resolution is not the only difference between the graphical capabilities of the two systems. for the system to be powerful enough to render an hd image to the tv and 4 sd images to the controllers, we're looking at double the power of the 360 or PS3, just to maintain last gen graphics. The console would have to launch at at least $400.

not only is that far too expensive, but most people wouldn't end up buying 3 more controllers (even at the $70 you suggest), so most of that extra hardware power just goes to waste.

You have no clue how weak the PS3 and 360 are at this point, do you? In fact, you don't seem to have the slightest clue what you're talking about for several reasons.

This has more than triple the power of the PS3 and 360 GPUs, fyi: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102969 Saying that it needs to be $400 for double the power is silly. Also, I was only hoping for two controllers.

[Kayo]

who's bashing?

Basically this entire thread.

[zephilicious]

You have no clue how weak the PS3 and 360 are at this point, do you? In fact, you don't seem to have the slightest clue what you're talking about for several reasons.

This has more than triple the power of the PS3 and 360 GPUs, fyi: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102969 Saying that it needs to be $400 for double the power is silly. Also, I was only hoping for two controllers.

of course the ps3 and 360 are weak as intercourse . and they still cost $250. theres this crazy thing called markup that applies when you dont buy raw components. and the wii u, at a minimum, would need to double their most expensive components to support 4 controllers (and it would still be outdated as intercourse  at that point). If the GPU alone costs $100 as in your example we're talking closer to $600 minimum.

obviously nintendo is not stupid enough to charge that much, or stupid enough to offload the processor/gpu to the controllers (leading to $200 controllers), hence 1 controller.

[Hero_of_Darkness]

of course the ps3 and 360 are weak as intercourse . and they still cost $250. theres this crazy thing called markup that applies when you dont buy raw components. and the wii u, at a minimum, would need to double their most expensive components to support 4 controllers (and it would still be outdated as intercourse  at that point). If the GPU alone costs $100 as in your example we're talking closer to $600 minimum.

obviously nintendo is not stupid enough to charge that much, or stupid enough to offload the processor/gpu to the controllers (leading to $200 controllers), hence 1 controller.

I know about mark-up. The thing is that it applies to graphics cards being sold at retail as well. Plus, graphics cards also have other components, the most important being RAM. (And that card has twice as much RAM as current consoles, though admittedly less than Wii U is rumored to have.) On top of that, the GPU of the card I linked to has a lot of unused silicon, so you might want to keep that in mind

And so you get it this time: I never said anything about four controllers. Stop putting words into my mouth. And it would take far more than twice the power to do that anyway.

On top of that, concerning the mark-up, there are several things that you didn't consider. For one, consoles rarely have a large mark-up at release. Most are sold at a loss at launch. Even the Wii supposedly only had a $6-8 profit at first. 3DS is even being sold at a loss for the time being. You're also discounting a couple of things in regard to current consoles. For one, the cheapest 360 is $200, and likely still has a nice mark-up on top of that. At this point in the generation, it likely costs Mircosoft closer to $150 to produce and sell. You might want to look at PS3 as a counterpoint, but PS3 has pretty exotic components compared to 360 and Wii U, plus it had an HDD while Wii U does not, so it's not a good reference point for Wii U's cost, whereas Wii U is basically a more modern 360 in terms of overall system architecture.

[zephilicious]

I know about mark-up. The thing is that it applies to graphics cards being sold at retail as well. Plus, graphics cards also have other components, the most important being RAM. (And that card has twice as much RAM as current consoles, though admittedly less than Wii U is rumored to have.) On top of that, the GPU of the card I linked to has a lot of unused silicon, so you might want to keep that in mind

the markup is significantly less on individual components, hence self assembled PCs costing less than half of equivalent manufactured PCs

And so you get it this time: I never said anything about four controllers. Stop putting words into my mouth. And it would take far more than twice the power to do that anyway.

I'm sticking with 4 because 2 makes just as little sense as 1. And while it may exaggerate my numbers a bit, the point is the same.

On top of that, concerning the mark-up, there are several things that you didn't consider. For one, consoles rarely have a large mark-up at release. Most are sold at a loss at launch. Even the Wii supposedly only had a $6-8 profit at first. 3DS is even being sold at a loss for the time being. You're also discounting a couple of things in regard to current consoles. For one, the cheapest 360 is $200, and likely still has a nice mark-up on top of that. At this point in the generation, it likely costs Mircosoft closer to $150 to produce and sell. You might want to look at PS3 as a counterpoint, but PS3 has pretty exotic components compared to 360 and Wii U, plus it had an HDD while Wii U does not, so it's not a good reference point for Wii U's cost, whereas Wii U is basically a more modern 360 in terms of overall system architecture.

to my understanding the ps3 and 360 are still sold at a loss. I don't know if the 3DS is sold at a loss, but if so it's the first Nintendo console to do so, and probably only after the early and likely unplanned price drop.

[RX-78-2]

I miss the time where you could just hold a thing with buttons to play a console game. No arm-swinging motion controls or looking at a second screen in your lap every now and then.

Those were simpler days.

Xbox 360? PS3? Virtual console controller? Or were you just talking about the hype about "innovation"?

We just need a Gamecube controller made specifically for the Wii U
I think they did that for Wii, but it wasn't really pushed

You mean the virtual console controller? If I recall correctly, it was updated to be more ergonomic with handles. Is that the one you're talking about?

In any case, I thought that the virtual console controller worked very well. I'd really like to see a Wii U counterpart.

[Kayo]

Xbox 360? PS3? Virtual console controller? Or were you just talking about the hype about "innovation"?

I wish everything stayed primarily in controllers. The Wii, Kinect, Move, etc. all seem like good ideas at first, but I still prefer handheld controllers. All those Wii games that used the Wiimote and Nunchuk together like a controller? Wasn't too crazy about that.

[Hero_of_Darkness]

the markup is significantly less on individual components, hence self assembled PCs costing less than half of equivalent manufactured PCs

It's less to the consumer. However, PCs have a much higher mark-up than consoles, so that's not really relevant

I'm sticking with 4 because 2 makes just as little sense as 1. And while it may exaggerate my numbers a bit, the point is the same.

No, it's not the same. :/

to my understanding the ps3 and 360 are still sold at a loss. I don't know if the 3DS is sold at a loss, but if so it's the first Nintendo console to do so, and probably only after the early and likely unplanned price drop.

By "understanding" do you mean "random guess"? I'm not even going to give you the links that prove you wrong since they're the first result on Google.

Also, GameCube was sold at a small loss when its price was cut to $99. Of course, you're going to take that to mean that Nintendo would never launch at a loss, and my response to that is that, before 3DS, they never nearly cut a system's price in half just a few months before launch either. If they have a reason to take a loss, they will. And, most likely, they'll have to since I'm sure that they don't want to make people start thinking that every Nintendo system from this pint on with get a huge price drop a few months after launch.