TMs = HMs ?

[Neerb]

I had this discussion with a friend of mine a while back, and I was just wondering about it again, so I decided to ask it here: do you guys think we should have all HMs? What I mean is, when you get one of those CDs that lets you teach a pokemon a move, do you think we should be able to use it over and over again?

You see, I would like to be able to reuse my Earthquake or Thunderbolt as much as I want, but my friend argues that having a limited amount adds a bit more challenge to the game since it makes you think a bit more about using it wisely instead of letting you teach your useless beginner pokemon stronger moves just to make it through the gyms faster. What do you guys think?

[Mikoyan]

The main purpose why HMs are reusable is that because they serve as crucial devices in advancing the plot and the game; ie. you need Surf to get to Cinnebar (RBY) and Cianwood (GSC). TMs, on the other hand, are extra stuff that act as boosters for your party. Unlike HMs, which are mostly (except Surf) astoundingly weak, many TMs like Earthquake are pretty darn strong. If one could teach it to the entire team before the E4, all the challenge is gone. Just spam Earthquake 50 times and Thunderbolt anything that flies.

[DededeCloneChris]

They should really make HMs replaceable. I don't see why they need to be un-replaceable.

[Macawmoses]

Personally, I think HMs should have a limit to their use, while TMs are fine as is. A little more resource management would make Pokemon a more interesting RPG in my thinking.

[darkmario]

I just want every TM in the game to buy byeable. But only on specific(Random) days. And a limit to how many you can buy per day.

Some TMs will only be found at one or two places. So it gives players a fair shake at getting their desired TM, if they used the one that they found.

As for HMs, they should be limited. And to get more, you have to talk to the gym leader of the gym that you had to beat to use that HM.


Also, we need it so that you can replace an HM with another move.

[Kayo]

No matter what, ALL TMs should be in stores somewhere. One Earthquake per game? Fuck that. And intercourse  pickup, no one wants to try that hard to get it. I've had to resort to using an action replay to get more than one of those TMs, because otherwise I have unfair advantages in battles, especially online.

And HMs should be forgettable. I can understand why not though, because of a possibility in which you are on cinnabar island, etc, and you made all your pokemon with either fly or surf forget those moves. Oh, and you never got any of the fishing rods. You are now stranded. That's why they aren't forgettable without the Move Deleter, and it should stay, to prevent a horrible situation like that.

[JrDude]

The reasoning behind HMs being permanent and not able to be replaced is... Well I'll give an example.

4 Year old Tim is playing, he does not have Fly. "I'm surfing, surfing, ooh, look, a fisher guy and a kid are facing each other on that island, let's battle. *battles* Epicwaterguy wants to learn hydro pump *removes surf* ALRIGHT! uh oh, mommy wants me to go to bed, *saves*."

The Next day
"OK Let's play!..... Hey, why can't I surf out of here..?"

In other words, it could intercourse  you up.

[Neerb]

But you have infinite HMs... if you made a pokemon forget it, you could just reteach it whenever you're in a situation like that. And if you don't have any pokemon with you that can learn that HM, then it wouldn't even matter whether or not they could forget it because they're not with you.

[Kayo]

But you have infinite HMs... if you made a pokemon forget it, you could just reteach it whenever you're in a situation like that. And if you don't have any pokemon with you that can learn that HM, then it wouldn't even matter whether or not they could forget it because they're not with you.

Yeah but all the stupid 10 year olds and old people playing pokemon wouldn't figure that out.

[JrDude]

But you have infinite HMs... if you made a pokemon forget it, you could just reteach it whenever you're in a situation like that. And if you don't have any pokemon with you that can learn that HM, then it wouldn't even matter whether or not they could forget it because they're not with you.

"Not being permanent" I meant "Not reusable"
Since you guys are discussing them not being able to be reused.

I think something like this should happen: No HMs, the HM moves still exist, but they're just TMs, some could still be used (like dig or teleport) as something like an HM, but not all. What you gotta do is go to someone, normally they'd give you an HM, but instead just teach your Poké to do something, it won't learn an attack, it will learn to just do it, like maybe teach it to swim. Or maybe it can teach a Poké to do what it already knows how to do, flap it's wings (Defog).
Another idea is Bluaki's idea, items replace HMs. Instead of needing surf, you get a boat (or my idea, a swim suit). Instead of Flash, you get a Flashlight (or my idea, a lantern [it lights more than just in front of you]). Maybe instead of Cut you get an Axe, instead of Rock Smash you get a Sledge hammer, etc.

[Turok]

I'm fine with the way it is, really. But I do want purchasable TMs. Oh, and how about an HM deleter item?

[JrDude]

I'm fine with the way it is, really. But I do want purchasable TMs. Oh, and how about an HM deleter item?

That would make it pointless for them to be undeletable in the first place.

[Turok]

That would make it pointless for them to be undeletable in the first place.

By that logic, it's pointless to be able to buy TMs (forgot you could until now >_<)

I'm not saying to make it a key item or anything, just a semi-rare/expensive one use item. But now that I think about it, make HMs deletable, but give an extra warning dialog that you may not be able to get to certain places blah, blah, blah.

There are loads of ways that HMs could be handled without totally breaking the way the game works (is that bad though?)

[Rius]

I like JrDude's idea of replacing HMs with more of an ability feature. I don't want to teach my Staraptor Fly and Defog and would rather it had the abilities to do that instead of taking up moveslots. I can see how having HM Slaves for certain situations requires management on the player's part, but it's mostly just frustrating. *At the top of Mount Coronet* Stupid rock. Graveler, use Rock Smash! *Left Graveler in lieu of Staravia to clear retarded fog* Oh darnit. Fly in particular is annoying since it's the most useful field HM, yet not really worth having on a serious Pokemon. Thankfully, the main games retarded easy.

Also, I think that having one-time use TMs is great. However, do what other RPGs do and give players a way to obtain more. Pickup, that's fine and dandy for Earthquake in my opinion. Whether it's through chance, Battle Frontier, or stores, every TM should be reobtainable somehow. Personally, I would like to see TM synthesis, but that's probably just me.

[JrDude]

By that logic, it's pointless to be able to buy TMs (forgot you could until now >_<)

Key word: Buy, it costs money to get TMs. You can buy infinite amount, but you need the money to do it, which you likely won't, nor would you need to.
Wait what? Either read the crossed out or restate that, because it doesn't make sense.
If it would be pointless for HMs to be undeletable when having a HM deleter item, it would also be pointless to buy TMs.
Y-no.

I like JrDude's idea of replacing HMs with more of an ability feature. I don't want to teach my Staraptor Fly and Defog and would rather it had the abilities to do that instead of taking up moveslots. I can see how having HM Slaves for certain situations requires management on the player's part, but it's mostly just frustrating. *At the top of Mount Coronet* Stupid rock. Graveler, use Rock Smash! *Left Graveler in lieu of Staravia to clear retarded fog* Oh darnit. Fly in particular is annoying since it's the most useful field HM, yet not really worth having on a serious Pokemon. Thankfully, the main games retarded easy.

Seriously. I mean, surfing is just swimming, and if you fished for a Pokémon, shouldn't it be able to, I don't know, swim? or are they all just sitting on the ocean floor and it's basically the Crane Game?
Dive is same logic there.
And Defog... Flap wings... well, I don't know why a Pokémon with wings wouldn't be able to do that in the first place.
And the Flash, Who the hell needs flash? Just get intercourse ing stick and have your fire/electric Pokémon light fire to it.

If they learned the ability to do it, then it would still make little sense with logic, but it would be easier and understandable. Instead of needing to learn surf, some dude could just let it do what it does, and maybe "teach it to carry others as it swims." And some other dude could "teach it to give you oxygen while it's underwater." They could add comedy to it if they wanted, like "Teach the bird to freak out when there's fog so it'll flap like crazy to be able to see"
It doesn't have to be those, I just felt like expanding my idea's explanation.