Talk about how things like Blaziken are now Uber.
Let's take a look at Reuniclus first. This better not happen.
I was only just noticing the adorable demented fetus's insane capabilities, and I found out that some people over at Smogon want it out of OU.
Let's take a look at what it's got going for it.
~Magic Guard, arguably one of the best abilities in the game. Takes no damage from status like Poison or entry hazards.
~This also means it gets the 30% boost from Life Orb without ANY recoil whatsoever.
~Amazing Base 125 Special Attack
~110/75/85 defenses are definitely bulky
~110 HP leads to 101-point Substitutes, which are useful against Seismic Toss/Night Shade users.
~Recover to brush off damage
~Incredibly low base 30 Speed, but access to Trick Room, making it one of the "fastest" Pokemon in Trick Room. Combined with stellar Special Attack and bulk it's scary.
~Like most Psychics, Calm Mind for boosting
~Great Specially Offensive movepool in Psychic, Focus Blast, Shadow Ball, Energy Ball, and Thunder.
~Psyshock to take down Blissey without breaking a sweat and winning Calm Mind battles with other specially bulky Pokemon like Suicune.
~Can go out with a bang using Explosion
This jellyblob can be anything from a Trick Room sweeper, to a Tank, to an Annoyer-Wall and more. Discuss this aborted blob and whether you think it should be banned from OU or not.
In my opinion, I don't WANT it banned. I wanted to use this thing. Sadly, it doesn't appear to have any real counters, especially once it sets up. The only thing I can think of that can take it down is Escavalier's Megahorn, but I haven't tested that yet.
Choice Specs Shadow Ball Gengar could likely OHKO it.
But I personally have never used nor faced a Reuniclus, so I can't really argue on it atm.
Quote from: FruitFlow on March 28, 2011, 01:49:01 PM
Choice Specs Shadow Ball Gengar could likely OHKO it.
But I personally have never used nor faced a Reuniclus, so I can't really argue on it atm.
But if Reuniclus survives with its insane HP it will definitely OHKO with Psychic.
You have to remember though, Reuniclus won't switch into Gengar. Gengar would switch into Reuniclus, and by then Reuni will already have a Calm Mind or Trick Room set up, both of which would turn the tide against Gengar in that battle.
Hold on a sec for the Gengar part.
Something just hit me.
Wouldn't Heracross be a better option over Excavalier, since he gains access to both Megahorn and Guts?
i want it banned no fetuses allowed
I have a friend who will be severely disappointed, but he's nonsensically overpowered and should probably be banned. Honestly, those stats and movepool PLUS the most broken ability in the game? Makes Garchomp look like a Delibird.
Also, this makes me question Dream World Alakazam. Granted, he doesn't have nearly the bulk of Reuniclus, but he has 120 speed, an even HIGHER special attack stat than Reuniclus, and he still gets the same attacks and Life Orb without recoil deal.
Hold the phone. Reuniclus is a water bear (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_bear), not a fetus. But anyway, I don't think it's that good in the first place, it isn't all that good. Magic Guard is definitely its best feature, but I don't think it's that big. Even if it does get banned, you can still Endeavor Solosis on hail/sandstorm teams. It would seem silly for me to Reuniclus to be banned over Deoxys-D/S and Lati@s.
"Makes Garchomp look like a Delibird."
That is ridiculous and false.
Also, where is your source that Reuniclus might get banned anyway? I can't find anything about it on Smogon, but I wasn't looking for all that long.Wait I found it (http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102694&page=2), looks like people there agree with me.
QuoteBlaziken: 29 Ban, 11 Do Not Ban, 3 Abstain (72.5% Ban)
Deoxys-E: 22 Ban, 19 Do Not Ban, 2 Abstain (53.7% Ban)
Excadrill: 10 Ban, 33 Do Not Ban, 0 Abstain (23.3% Ban)
Latios: 22 Ban, 18 Do Not Ban, 3 Abstain (55.0% Ban)
Reuniclus: 9 Ban, 31 Do Not Ban, 3 Abstain (22.5% Ban)
Thundurus: 15 Ban, 23 Do Not Ban, 5 Abstain (39.5% Ban)
What does this mean? From here on out, Blaziken is banned from OU. Deoxys-E and Latios are placed "on notice", meaning that if they are voted Uber by a simple majority in the next round of testing, they will also be banned. The other suspects are all safe in OU.
Quote from: Cornwad on March 28, 2011, 04:50:18 PM
Hold the phone. Reuniclus is a water bear (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_bear), not a fetus. But anyway, I don't think it's that good in the first place, it isn't all that good. Magic Guard is definitely its best feature, but I don't think it's that big. Even if it does get banned, you can still Endeavor Solosis on hail/sandstorm teams. It would seem silly for me to Reuniclus to be banned over Deoxys-D/S and Lati@s.
"Makes Garchomp look like a Delibird."
That is ridiculous and false.
Also, where is your source that Reuniclus might get banned anyway? I can't find anything about it on Smogon, but I wasn't looking for all that long.
Wait I found it (http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102694&page=2), looks like people there agree with me.
I heard it was debated, and obviously they had a vote for it so there, source confirmed. Note how I never said it would or wouldn't be banned, it was just being discussed.
Also, why is Blaziken banned? Unless they mean ONLY with Speed Boost. If they're banning ALL Blaziken, they're intercourse ing dumb.
Isn't Smogon pretty much the backwater unofficial Pokemon site? It's not like everywhere else Reuniclus is going to be banned.
Quote from: OshawottTrainerChris on March 28, 2011, 05:56:37 PM
Isn't Smogon pretty much the backwater unofficial Pokemon site? It's not like everywhere else Reuniclus is going to be banned.
Smogon applies the tier lists and clauses everyone follows. Ex. when I'm battling with people (or if you battle with ANYONE online) there is no Garchomp, etc. allowed.
Blaziken hits me hard. Out of ALL the things they could have banned, this is what they picked. Wow Smogon. Just wow.
Quote from: OshawottTrainerChris on March 28, 2011, 05:56:37 PM
Isn't Smogon pretty much the backwater unofficial Pokemon site? It's not like everywhere else Reuniclus is going to be banned.
Reuniclus isn't getting banned anywhere. And Smogon is pretty much the official rules if you're playing competitively.
Nope, all Blaziken is banned.
Quote from: Cornwad on March 28, 2011, 06:00:02 PM
Reuniclus isn't getting banned anywhere. And Smogon is pretty much the official rules if you're playing competitively.
Nope, all Blaziken is banned.
ALL Blaziken? Even without Speed Boost?
If so: Smogon, you're intercourse ing stupid. Blaze Blaziken threatens nothing in OU.
Quote from: Chandelure on March 28, 2011, 05:59:49 PM
Smogon applies the tier lists and clauses everyone follows. Ex. when I'm battling with people (or if you battle with ANYONE online) there is no Garchomp, etc. allowed.
Blaziken hits me hard. Out of ALL the things they could have banned, this is what they picked. Wow Smogon. Just wow.
Holy crap, they enforce the "Stop Having Fun Guys" term.
Quote from: OshawottTrainerChris on March 28, 2011, 06:09:22 PM
Holy crap, they enforce the "Stop Having Fun Guys" term.
IMO, a starter should not be Uber. No matter what.
By starter I mean Blaziken with its natural ability, Blaze. I heard Blaziken in general was Uber.
Blaziken? Uber? Ahahahah. Hah.
Overall forum reaction seems to favor fun. Hurray!
I'm pretty sure if it was only speed boost Blaziken it would have said so, but I guess that might be because nobody in their right mind would use Blaze over Speed Boost.
I honestly don't care for Blaziken.
I'm glad Infernape still hasn't been mentioned with his addition to Iron Fist.
Obvious Aprils'f Fool joke is obvious. Blaziken was UU last tier. What makes it suddenly so amazing, even without Speed Boost?
Quote from: Dialga on March 29, 2011, 05:48:21 AM
Obvious Aprils'f Fool joke is obvious. Blaziken was UU last tier. What makes it suddenly so amazing, even without Speed Boost?
Smogon people just looked at Speed Boost and made quick decisions just to ban poor Blaziken in general.
Smogon rulings are always final unless a majority of re-calculated again in the future.
Quote from: Chandelure on March 29, 2011, 11:51:51 AM
Smogon people just looked at Speed Boost and made quick decisions just to ban poor Blaziken in general.
I find it odd that they banned him in general, but I wouldn't say they just went and made "quick decisions." After all, Reuniclus and Latios aren't banned just yet; I think they're taking care to be less ban-happy.
Quote from: Neerb on March 29, 2011, 06:07:31 PM
I find it odd that they banned him in general, but I wouldn't say they just went and made "quick decisions." After all, Reuniclus and Latios aren't banned just yet; I think they're taking care to be less ban-happy.
It's "on notice." So, right on the fence.
I've also heard things about Lugia and Deoxys-D being allowed in OU. Deoxys-D I can understand, but Lugia I'm not so sure about. It can be taken down easily now, but it's Special De-
Then again, Blissey remains in OU with its counters, so I can see Lugia staying off the ban list. Weakness to any physical Bug or Ghost pokemon (Hi from Scizor and Dusknoir) kind of haunts it.
EDIT: Forgetting it takes neutral damage from Bug attacks, but I'm pretty sure Scizor can still take it easily.
Current ban list:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/announcement.php?f=144&a=187 (http://www.smogon.com/forums/announcement.php?f=144&a=187)
Quote from: Chandelure on March 29, 2011, 06:17:38 PM
I've also heard things about Lugia and Deoxys-D being allowed in OU.
Link, please? That doesn't sound like something that would be seriously considered.
Quote from: Neerb on March 29, 2011, 07:17:40 PM
Current ban list:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/announcement.php?f=144&a=187 (http://www.smogon.com/forums/announcement.php?f=144&a=187)
Link, please? That doesn't sound like something that would be seriously considered.
I saw it somewhere on Smogon, I have to find it again.
EDIT: until then: this.
[spoiler]Items
All items that increase Evasion (e.g. BrightPowder)
Moves
All moves that increase Evasion only (e.g. Minimize)
All instant OHKO moves (e.g. Horn Drill)
Abilities
Moody
Drizzle + Swift Swim on the same team
Species
Arceus
Blaziken
Darkrai
Deoxys-A
Deoxys
Dialga
Giratina
Giratina-O
Groudon
Ho-Oh
Kyogre
Lugia
Manaphy
Mewtwo
Palkia
Rayquaza
Reshiram
Shaymin-S
Zekrom[/spoiler]
That's the banlist. Lugia is there for now, but note the lack of Deoxys-D. This is recent, evidenced by the inclusion of Blaziken, but I see no Deoxys-S there, though I thought that was voted Uber. But yeah, Deoxys-D seems to be unbanned as of now.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/announcement.php?f=144&a=187
EDIT 2: They probably banned Lugia for its DW ability, Multiscale. Same reason all Blaziken are banned.
I was really looking forward to Drizzle team.
Quote from: Chandelure on March 29, 2011, 07:33:21 PM
I saw it somewhere on Smogon, I have to find it again.
EDIT: until then: this.
[spoiler]Items
All items that increase Evasion (e.g. BrightPowder)
Moves
All moves that increase Evasion only (e.g. Minimize)
All instant OHKO moves (e.g. Horn Drill)
Abilities
Moody
Drizzle + Swift Swim on the same team
Species
Arceus
Blaziken
Darkrai
Deoxys-A
Deoxys
Dialga
Giratina
Giratina-O
Groudon
Ho-Oh
Kyogre
Lugia
Manaphy
Mewtwo
Palkia
Rayquaza
Reshiram
Shaymin-S
Zekrom[/spoiler]
That's the banlist. Lugia is there for now, but note the lack of Deoxys-D. This is recent, evidenced by the inclusion of Blaziken, but I see no Deoxys-S there, though I thought that was voted Uber. But yeah, Deoxys-D seems to be unbanned as of now.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/announcement.php?f=144&a=187
EDIT 2: They probably banned Lugia for its DW ability, Multiscale. Same reason all Blaziken are banned.
If thats the full list, they've unbanned garchomp and salamence...
Quote from: So_So_Man on March 30, 2011, 01:46:57 PM
If thats the full list, they've unbanned garchomp and salamence...
They unbanned EVERYTHING to begin with, they just started by adding these.
Quote from: FruitFlow on March 30, 2011, 12:44:52 AM
I was really looking forward to Drizzle team.
You can still use Drizzle, just not if you have anybody with Swift Swim. Drizzle is still great for boosting water, weakening fire, and Dry Skin. And yeah, Deoxys-D/S have never been banned this gen. Hell, neither has even been complained about enough to even be put up for ban. Lugia has been up there for a while though I think. Why did neerb post a link to the ban list though, and then ask for a link to the ban list?
Why would Blissey be banned? Blissey sucks now compared to Chansey.
Quote from: So_So_Man on March 30, 2011, 01:46:57 PM
If thats the full list, they've unbanned garchomp and salamence...
They were never banned in Gen 5.
Quote from: Cornwad on March 30, 2011, 03:26:48 PM
You can still use Drizzle, just not if you have anybody with Swift Swim. Drizzle is still great for boosting water, weakening fire, and Dry Skin.
Alright. That's cool.
I just tested Solar Power Charizard under Drought and it's a freaking beast.
Quote from: Cornwad on March 30, 2011, 03:26:48 PM
Why did neerb post a link to the ban list though, and then ask for a link to the ban list?
The link I was asking for was for whatever thread contained the "Lugia may be unbanned" speculation, which I have yet to receive. You have absolutely no idea how overcome with joy I would be if I could use Lugia (although, then EVERYONE might start using him), but the whole concept of unbanning one of the series greatest walls sounds too preposterous to even be discussed seriously at Smogon, let alone actually happen.
Quote from: Neerb on March 30, 2011, 03:43:18 PM
The link I was asking for was for whatever thread contained the "Lugia may be unbanned" speculation, which I have yet to receive. You have absolutely no idea how overcome with joy I would be if I could use Lugia (although, then EVERYONE might start using him), but the whole concept of unbanning one of the series greatest walls sounds too preposterous to even be discussed seriously at Smogon, let alone actually happen.
Considering Psychic is a pretty poor defensive type, and the fact that everything has Pursuit or some other move that can take Lugia down, plus Wild Charge and stuff.
My poor Psychic types are falling out of Ubers. Latios, Latias, Lugia, Deoxys-D, Deoxys-S, and Wobbuffet are still unbanned. :/
Quote from: Chandelure on March 30, 2011, 04:50:29 PM
Considering Psychic is a pretty poor defensive type, and the fact that everything has Pursuit or some other move that can take Lugia down, plus Wild Charge and stuff.
My poor Psychic types are falling out of Ubers. Latios, Latias, Lugia, Deoxys-D, Deoxys-S, and Wobbuffet are still unbanned. :/
Perhaps they just haven't gotten around to it yet; I've seen plenty of talk of how Latios should be banned, and I don't think anything has changed for Wobbuffet. Also, like I said, I've seen absolutely nothing concerning Lugia being taken out; in fact, his personal strategy thread in the Ubers board seems to have a lot of discussion on how over-powered he is.
Quote from: Neerb on March 30, 2011, 05:34:25 PM
Perhaps they just haven't gotten around to it yet; I've seen plenty of talk of how Latios should be banned, and I don't think anything has changed for Wobbuffet. Also, like I said, I've seen absolutely nothing concerning Lugia being taken out; in fact, his personal strategy thread in the Ubers board seems to have a lot of discussion on how over-powered he is.
I've heard both sides on Lugia. I guess there's some users who want it Uber and some who think it shouldn't be banned.
I have a feeling that the other non-legendary Ubers will be returned to the list after testing. They weren't added right off the bat so they need testing in Gen V to make sure they still pack their overpowered punch.
Quote from: Chandelure on March 30, 2011, 05:38:13 PM
I've heard both sides on Lugia. I guess there's some users who want it Uber and some who think it shouldn't be banned.
I have a feeling that the other non-legendary Ubers will be returned to the list after testing. They weren't added right off the bat so they need testing in Gen V to make sure they still pack their overpowered punch.
Again, where exactly is the "Lugia for OU" side? I'd really like to see where they are discussing this, seeing as how the Uber board currently has a "Best Uber Wall" poll in which Lugia has the most votes, as well as the fact that Lugia is already on the Uber list while legitimately undecided Pokemon are not (since, you know, they're undecided).
On another note, some people are discussing the recent banning of Bright Powder and Lax Incense. They are making a very interesting claim that if Bright Powder and Lax Incense are only banned because they are introducing new luck into the game, then they should go all the way and ban anything and everything whose sole purpose is to introduce a new luck aspect, including Confuse Ray, Supersonic, Sweet Kiss, Teeter Dance, Attract, Focus Band, King's Rock, etc. Statuses don't count since they all have non-luck based aspects; you will be consistently hurt in Poisoned and Burn, you will be guaranteed immobility for a few turns in Sleep and Frozen, and you have your speed lowered in Paralyzed.
Quote from: Neerb on March 30, 2011, 06:18:37 PM
Again, where exactly is the "Lugia for OU" side? I'd really like to see where they are discussing this, seeing as how the Uber board currently has a "Best Uber Wall" poll in which Lugia has the most votes, as well as the fact that Lugia is already on the Uber list while legitimately undecided Pokemon are not (since, you know, they're undecided).
On another note, some people are discussing the recent banning of Bright Powder and Lax Incense. They are making a very interesting claim that if Bright Powder and Lax Incense are only banned because they are introducing new luck into the game, then they should go all the way and ban anything and everything whose sole purpose is to introduce a new luck aspect, including Confuse Ray, Supersonic, Sweet Kiss, Teeter Dance, Attract, Focus Band, King's Rock, etc. Statuses don't count since they all have non-luck based aspects; you will be consistently hurt in Poisoned and Burn, you will be guaranteed immobility for a few turns in Sleep and Frozen, and you have your speed lowered in Paralyzed.
Lax Incense/Brightpowder is cheap luck on some pokemon (Sand Veil Garchomp). Confuse Ray, etc. are only available to certain pokemon, and these pokemon may have been made to use luck to their advantage.
It's a small change but it can get EXTREMELY annoying when your Ice Beam misses that, by all logic, would have killed that Garchomp. It's annoying, but isn't there just a clause for it? Or is it banned completely?
Quote from: Chandelure on March 30, 2011, 04:50:29 PM
My poor Psychic types are falling out of Ubers. Latios, Latias, Lugia, Deoxys-D, Deoxys-S, and Wobbuffet are still unbanned. :/
Lugia is still very much in ubers. And how is that a bad thing? I love being able to actually use Wobbuffet now.
And I think the bright powder thing is now part of the evasion clause if I remember correctly.
Crobat.
Quote from: Cornwad on March 30, 2011, 06:50:00 PM
Lugia is still very much in ubers. And how is that a bad thing? I love being able to actually use Wobbuffet now.
And I think the bright powder thing is now part of the evasion clause if I remember correctly.
I think it is too.
Also Wobbuffet is a trap. I hate going against those things.
Just so it's firmly established, Lugia is in no way anything other than Uber or even close to anything other than Uber.