NSFCD

http://gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=112503

"
Could this be the big announcement that Nintendo Dream was talking about? Nintendo has announced that Gamefreak is hard at work on a brand-new Pokemon RPG, and it's due out this year in Japan. There are (of course) going to be brand-new Pokemon involved, and the series is going to experience some sort of rebirth. Expect new functionality and play types, according to the Big N. Just how different will this game be? Only time will tell, I guess, but Nintendo is already confident that it'll be a huge hit. "

I don't need to say anything more than DISCUSS.

Woo.
Wonder what uncreative Pokémon we'll see this time, and I wonder how many new evos/prevos we'll see.

Quote from: JrDude ½ on January 29, 2010, 12:24:07 AM
Woo.
Wonder what uncreative Pokémon we'll see this time, and I wonder how many new evos/prevos we'll see.

I'm hoping this gen will be 100 Pokemon added. 90 new entirely, 10 pre/evos.

Quote from: mackormoses on January 29, 2010, 12:31:12 AM
I'm hoping this gen will be 100 Pokemon added. 90 new entirely, 10 pre/evos.

I'm hoping this gen will be 107 Pokemon added, rather. The last two gens have ended at a terrible number.

Quote from: mackormoses on January 29, 2010, 12:31:12 AM
I'm hoping this gen will be 100 Pokemon added. 90 new entirely, 10 pre/evos.

Well, good luck with hoping. I'm setting my expectations pretty low for Gen V... that way (with a bit of luck on our side), I won't be disappointed.

strange two gens of Pokemon on one system?

1st gen: gameboy
2nd gen: gameboy color
3rd gen: gameboy advance
4th gen: ds
5th gen: ???

Well, I'm just going to lay low and imagine it won't be anything special until it comes out.

Quote from: Gwen Khan on January 29, 2010, 08:47:48 AM
strange two gens of Pokemon on one system?

1st gen: gameboy
2nd gen: gameboy color
3rd gen: gameboy advance
4th gen: ds
5th gen: ???

How is that strange?

Quote from: Blue on January 29, 2010, 10:46:42 AM
Well, I'm just going to lay low and imagine it won't be anything special until it comes out.
How is that strange?

it would be the first time two gens of pokemon came out on one system

also the anime hasn't shown any new pokemon yet, they have shown at least one new pokemon a few years before the next gen comes out

Quote from: Gwen Khan on January 29, 2010, 11:30:08 AM
it would be the first time two gens of pokemon came out on one system

also the anime hasn't shown any new pokemon yet, they have shown at least one new pokemon a few years before the next gen comes out

I think this mimics the fact that a second Mario platformer will come out on the Wii.

It just shows that Nintendo is sticking with this system for awhile. Pokemon sells handhelds, which is why they'll use it to refuel the DS brand.

Quote from: Gwen Khan on January 29, 2010, 11:30:08 AM
it would be the first time two gens of pokemon came out on one system

also the anime hasn't shown any new pokemon yet, they have shown at least one new pokemon a few years before the next gen comes out

DSI.

Isn't there news somewhere about DS2 being released either late this year or early next year in Japan? Perhaps Gen5 Pokemon will be a launch title.
Maybe this year's E3 will be huge. I don't expect to see any more info on either subject until then.

Quote from: bluaki on January 29, 2010, 03:05:18 PM
Isn't there news somewhere about DS2 being released either late this year or early next year in Japan? Perhaps Gen5 Pokemon will be a launch title.
Maybe this year's E3 will be huge. I don't expect to see any more info on either subject until then.

No, DS2 is now being denied. Also, they wouldn't release a whole new system this soon after the two DSi's and no marketing of it. It'll be at least a year before we see a new DS.

Quote from: mackormoses on January 29, 2010, 03:08:43 PM
No, DS2 is now being denied. Also, they wouldn't release a whole new system this soon after the two DSi's and no marketing of it. It'll be at least a year before we see a new DS.

~North American release dates of select handhelds~
Gameboy Advance SP - Spring 2003
Nintendo DS - Fall 2004
Gameboy Micro - Fall 2005

~Announcement and release-related dates for DS (according to wikipedia)~
November 2003: Nintendo saying "we're making a new handheld due next year that will NOT replace the Gameboy (lol)"
January 2004: Oh look TWO shiny screens
May 2004: Prototype version displayed at E3 (the one with black stripes)
November-December 2004: Launch in US and Japan.

patterns, patterns, patterns. Doesn't look like Nintendo had any fear of releasing the DS just a year after SP, and challenging the Gameboy's final stand even more by releasing Gameboy Micro a year later.
Nintendo didn't say much at all about the DS until the E3 of the year it was released. Where exactly is it confirmed that a DS2 is not going to be released within the next year or so? From what I've seen, it looks more like an "oh wait we're not supposed to tell you that yet" on Nintendo's part.

If this is a DSi exclusive, I'm done with Pokemon.  SoulSilver will be the last one I ever buy.

Fun story about this,

I heard that Nintendo is planning a DS successor as well. And it adds motion sensitivity. You know, another thing that'll make it awkward to play on a bus.

I eagerly await new Pokémon, new adventures, and new characters. In my opinion, they always get better. I wonder what new features it'll have. Seeing as I still haven't beaten Platinum, :( I hope they take their time releasing this one. |:

Quote from: TerribleFrog 39 on January 29, 2010, 10:36:08 PM
I eagerly await new Pokémon, new adventures, and new characters. In my opinion, they always get better. I wonder what new features it'll have. Seeing as I still haven't beaten Platinum, :( I hope they take their time releasing this one. |:

I still haven't beaten Platinum either. I beat the Sunnyshore gym and was going to train before the E4, but then just said "intercourse  it" and haven't played it in months |:

I think I still have Shaymin and Darkrai waiting for me too D:

Bluaki, your patterns patterns patterns are fine and dandy. But one thing you're not taking into account is that the DS is the fastest selling video game system ever. It's the second highest selling, and Nintendo's highest. Sure, there are patterns. But this business. Two things hurt Nintendo: predictability, for one, and the other is jumping the gun.

There's no cohesive evidence to support what I'm saying. But there are dollar amounts. And the way I see it, Nintendo can allow a massive cool off of the DS brand, and still have huge releases for 3 years. The install base is gigantic in every sense of the word.

On top of that, they'll have to market the hell out of it, and explain why people should not only upgrade their DSi, but their DSi XL too. It won't happen.

I can see Nintendo releasing a new handheld this year, and it WOULD sell well, mostly because of Pokemon. Whether they would or not, I don't think anyone can actually say. Anyway, considering that mutiple mainstream Mario/Metroid/Zelda games are being released for the Wii, I think it's quite likely they would do the same for the DS. The new one would probably utilize DSi features, but still be playable on older DS models...
Of course, it could be a spinoff RPG that gives previews of Gen V Pokemon. But considering the year, it's about time for new main games.

R/B=1995
G/S=1999
R/S=2003
D/P=2007
Gen V=2011

It kind of makes sense.

Quote from: Violet on January 30, 2010, 02:09:14 PM
R/B=1995
G/S=1999
R/S=2003
D/P=2007
Gen V=2011

It kind of makes sense.

Again, trying to find patterns is nonsensical. Tradition said  Daft Punk should have released another album a year or two ago.

What's interesting in this are the other factors at play. So far, it's on the same system as another generation (and a ton of spinoffs). It's revealed no new pokemon. Etc.

So, I wonder what kind of spin-off ideas we'll see here. Mystery Dungeon and Colosseum had pretty great ideas but could put much more effort executed in them; Regardless I can't wait to see what's up with the spin-offs since I know not much will happen to the main games themselves.

I think we should quit speculation until we see what A) the poster pokemon looks like and B.) what the starters look like.

Because I mean, they could be awful. You know. Like the 4th generation.

Then again, that's not going to stop me from getting it.

Quote from: mackormoses on January 29, 2010, 12:18:42 AM
http://gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=112503

"
Could this be the big announcement that Nintendo Dream was talking about? Nintendo has announced that Gamefreak is hard at work on a brand-new Pokemon RPG, and it's due out this year in Japan. There are (of course) going to be brand-new Pokemon involved, and the series is going to experience some sort of rebirth. Expect new functionality and play types, according to the Big N. Just how different will this game be? Only time will tell, I guess, but Nintendo is already confident that it'll be a huge hit. "

I don't need to say anything more than DISCUSS.

I just realized what it will be.  Wooden Pokeballs.

Quote from: So_So_Man on January 30, 2010, 08:32:22 PM
I just realized what it will be.  Wooden Pokeballs.

Pokemon is going green?

Quote from: mackormoses on January 30, 2010, 08:48:45 PM
Pokemon is going green?

rebirth = back to the start.  Wooden pokeballs and aerodactyl in tall grass

If they do attempt this 5th gen, they better make it good. It seems to me that they didn't even try when designing the 4th gen Pokemon.

That, or get entirely new artists that don't make eye 6 inches in diameter.

If they're gonna add more pokemon, do one of two things: Make it so that only certain gen pokemon count towards pokedex completion (we've logged the first gen how many times now? Did the server with the data on it crash repeatedly?) or ONLY have current gen pokemon obtainable in-game

Quote from: TUROK on January 31, 2010, 02:44:14 AM
If they're gonna add more pokemon, do one of two things: Make it so that only certain gen pokemon count towards pokedex completion (we've logged the first gen how many times now? Did the server with the data on it crash repeatedly?) or ONLY have current gen pokemon obtainable in-game

I don't like that idea of only having current gen pokemon obtainable in one game. Do Coyotes stop migrating and expanding because of our political boundaries? How about birds? By no means do they. It makes it more realistic to have some Pokemon all over the place.

 

Quote from: mackormoses on January 31, 2010, 06:17:46 PM
I don't like that idea of only having current gen pokemon obtainable in one game. Do Coyotes stop migrating and expanding because of our political boundaries? How about birds? By no means do they. It makes it more realistic to have some Pokemon all over the place.

unless there is something specific preventing pokemon from crossing into different routes, the pokemon should spill over a bit into neighbouring routes.

Quote from: So_So_Man on January 31, 2010, 06:22:39 PM
unless there is something specific preventing pokemon from crossing into different routes, the pokemon should spill over a bit into neighbouring routes.

That is one thing I don't like about the games - how many of them are VERY specific in where they are. I think it'd be great for islands/etc. but yeah.

What I would like to see is one area they are highly concentrated, and then areas around they are just rare (or something) for this very concentrated ones.

I'm just getting tired of having to re-catch all of the pokemon I finally got a year or so ago. Stop adding more, it got annoying in Ruby/Sapphire. I'm all for new evos, but to 'conveniently' discover a new species or 100 & all of a sudden its everywhere? nuh-uh

Quote from: TUROK on January 31, 2010, 08:44:28 PM
I'm just getting tired of having to re-catch all of the pokemon I finally got a year or so ago. Stop adding more, it got annoying in Ruby/Sapphire. I'm all for new evos, but to 'conveniently' discover a new species or 100 & all of a sudden its everywhere? nuh-uh

They aren't claiming to have discovered them. You're going to new regions of the world. I don't know of many Pandas up here in Canada on their own accord.

Quote from: mackormoses on January 31, 2010, 09:01:19 PM
They aren't claiming to have discovered them. You're going to new regions of the world. I don't know of many Pandas up here in Canada on their own accord.

You forget that in the original, the ones you were catching were the only known species. Either Oak is a hack, or no one got out much

Quote from: TUROK on January 31, 2010, 09:08:26 PM
You forget that in the original, the ones you were catching were the only known species. Either Oak is a hack, or no one got out much

We thought the world was flat. Maybe they just realized they could go over the horizon :|

:D

Quote from: TUROK on January 31, 2010, 09:08:26 PM
You forget that in the original, the ones you were catching were the only known species. Either Oak is a hack, or no one got out much

After first gen they realized that there might be Pokemon in the patches of grass filled with pokemon

Quote from: mackormoses on January 31, 2010, 09:22:04 PM
We thought the world was flat. Maybe they just realized they could go over the horizon :|

:D

Maybe it was a communication issue.

I look at it this way: it was never night in the first game. So going by it isn't the best of ideas.

On a similar note to things being said about species and regions: one thing that annoys me about G/S/HG/SS is that, in Kanto, many of the most common pokemon are later than #151 in the pokedex. Viridian Forest is filled with Hoothoot and Noctowl at night, for example. I remember having to even go to Cycling Road in SS for Slugma with that being like the only place it appears.

Quote from: bluaki on January 31, 2010, 11:47:21 PM
On a similar note to things being said about species and regions: one thing that annoys me about G/S/HG/SS is that, in Kanto, many of the most common pokemon are later than #151 in the pokedex. Viridian Forest is filled with Hoothoot and Noctowl at night, for example. I remember having to even go to Cycling Road in SS for Slugma with that being like the only place it appears.

This is what I mean. Have each region's pokemon ONLY in that region.

You can't expect perfect continuity in Pokemon. It won't work.

Quote from: Mystic on February 01, 2010, 12:09:14 AM
You can't expect perfect continuity in Pokemon. It won't work.

I'm not, its just at the rate its going, we'll have to catch 600 pokemon by the next game or so. I'm fine with that as long as there are more gym leaders & stuff. As is now, we have loads of pokemon to catch, but the same gym progression that can be beaten in an afternoon. That's why I like G/S so much there was twice as much to do.

True, there should be more to do, especially gyms. Though, you don't have to actually catch them all.

Quote from: TUROK on January 31, 2010, 11:52:02 PM
This is what I mean. Have each region's pokemon ONLY in that region.

Again, are coyotes limited to one region? No. It makes sense to have Pokemon migration.

This is how I think it should go: Every area is known for certain Pokémon, but every now and then, you'll find some other Pokémon that likes to move and explore, like a flying Pokémon, like Pidgey, it isn't known to be in that area, but it flew there on its own, but it could also be Zigzagoon or some other Pokémon that likes to explore. Another thing relating to that is Pokémon outside of the region every now and then appearing due to stuff like that, in the Pokédex it would appear after the latest Pokémon until National Dex is obtained.

Quote from: JrDude ½ on February 01, 2010, 01:38:33 AM
This is how I think it should go: Every area is known for certain Pokémon, but every now and then, you'll find some other Pokémon that likes to move and explore, like a flying Pokémon, like Pidgey, it isn't known to be in that area, but it flew there on its own, but it could also be Zigzagoon or some other Pokémon that likes to explore. Another thing relating to that is Pokémon outside of the region every now and then appearing due to stuff like that, in the Pokédex it would appear after the latest Pokémon until National Dex is obtained.

Quote from: mackormoses on February 01, 2010, 12:46:31 AM
Again, are coyotes limited to one region? No. It makes sense to have Pokemon migration.

I can agree with this. What would happen if there were actual Pokémon migration routes? For instance, if the games are made to recognize what month it is in real time, then bird Pokémon would migrate accordingly. That would be interesting and more realistic.

I like TerribleFrog's idea. Or how about you start in Kanto & once you have all of that regions pokemon you can catch the next region's & go to that region also? That might be a bit much though

Quote from: bluaki on January 29, 2010, 12:54:34 AM
I'm hoping this gen will be 107 Pokemon added, rather. The last two gens have ended at a terrible number.

Yes, it should be x01 or x51.  Only ONE mystery Pokemon, or better yet, if they want to add more, just make the number where they're counting the non-event pokemon stop five or six before the x01/x051. </ocd>

Quote from: Phaze on January 30, 2010, 12:21:06 AM
I still haven't beaten Platinum either. I beat the Sunnyshore gym and was going to train before the E4, but then just said "intercourse  it" and haven't played it in months |:

I brought over a level 100 Torterra from my Diamond to beat the E4.

Quote from: TUROK on January 31, 2010, 11:52:02 PM
This is what I mean. Have each region's pokemon ONLY in that region.

Yeah, with the exception of some common ones from other regions finding their way there (like Tentacool, Magikarp, Rattata, Pidgey, Wingull, Bidoof, etc.)

---

Well, Pokemon Trainer X or whatever it is will give us a Pokemon or two I think.

Whee, a whole silhouette of what may be a gen 5 pokemon! Mindblowing news!

(http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/2/2c/PSGEN5.png)

According to several sources, this was shown on Pokemon Sunday. I'll just say it looks like some freaky disproportionate thing and leave it at that until its apparent further reveal in two weeks.

Looks like it's got a hair tie >_>

I think it looks like a fox mixed with Shiftry

For some reason, it looks like a Ninetales evo to me o_o

Quote from: bluaki on February 06, 2010, 05:07:32 PM
Whee, a whole silhouette of what may be a gen 5 pokemon! Mindblowing news!

(http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/2/2c/PSGEN5.png)

According to several sources, this was shown on Pokemon Sunday. I'll just say it looks like some freaky disproportionate thing and leave it at that until its apparent further reveal in two weeks.

what type do you think it is? I'm gonna guess at least part fighting

Looks like Fire/Fighting to me. If it is, I hope it's not a starter.

It looks like a werewolf pokemon. Maybe Dark?

First thing that came to my mind was a Vulpix evo. And I'd say it's fire regardless.

Quote from: JrDude ½ on February 06, 2010, 07:40:35 PM
Looks like Fire/Fighting to me. If it is, I hope it's not a starter.

the first gen two pokemon we saw was Ho-oh
for 3 was kecleon
and 4 was munchlax

so far we haven't seen a starter revealed first

I think you can see some darkened patterns...

Quote from: Gwen Khan on February 06, 2010, 08:49:00 PM
the first gen two pokemon we saw was Ho-oh
for 3 was kecleon
and 4 was munchlax

so far we haven't seen a starter revealed first

Was keckleon revealed through the anime on a cruise ship? or am I smoking again?

Quote from: mackormoses on February 06, 2010, 08:57:16 PM
Was keckleon revealed through the anime on a cruise ship? or am I smoking again?

a blimp in the anime, I remember first seeing it the episode was called "the kecleon Caper! I was trying to think what pokemon it was and was surprised to see a new one

Right. I think I recall it.

By that logic then, we've not seen an evolution revealed yet (first) - a legendary, pre-evo, and stand alone. Hmm.

We got Ho-oh in the very first episode, you know.

Quote from: AuraChannelerChris on February 06, 2010, 09:15:25 PM
We got Ho-oh in the very first episode, you know.

Yes, flying high up in the sky leaving a rainbow behind.

:0)

I think they had planned the second generation well in advance.

Apparently this is what it has a great chance of being:
[spoiler](http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm46/keshikins/newpoke.png)[/spoiler]

That wouldn't surprise me at all, Mightyena is already associated with the new movie, which makes no sense otherwise.

Problem solved.

Quote from: Cornwad on February 07, 2010, 10:53:50 AM
Apparently this is what it has a great chance of being:
[spoiler](http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm46/keshikins/newpoke.png)[/spoiler]

That wouldn't surprise me at all, Mightyena is already associated with the new movie, which makes no sense otherwise.

It looks so deformed, so it's a big no.

Quote from: Cornwad on February 07, 2010, 10:53:50 AM
That wouldn't surprise me at all, Mightyena is already associated with the new movie, which makes no sense otherwise.

You just disproved your whole point. Any Pokémon that has a big role, has a big role because it's them, if their evolution has a big role then it has nothing to do with them, because it's their evo, not them, understand? Your logic is like the logic of Pikablue.

Quote from: Cornwad on February 07, 2010, 10:53:50 AM
Apparently this is what it has a great chance of being:
[spoiler](http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm46/keshikins/newpoke.png)[/spoiler]

That wouldn't surprise me at all, Mightyena is already associated with the new movie, which makes no sense otherwise.

The only reason you're saying that is because you're seeing art of that. If I showed a Lucario evo or Nintetales evo filled in you'd be saying that. Frankly, it could be a Mightyena evolution. But there are other possibilities. Basing it on fan art makes no sense.

Just go see Deviantart and see how many people have already made stuff with the silhoutte.

Quote from: JrDude ½ on February 07, 2010, 04:25:08 PM
You just disproved your whole point. Any Pokémon that has a big role, has a big role because it's them, if their evolution has a big role then it has nothing to do with them, because it's their evo, not them, understand? Your logic is like the logic of Pikablue.

The new Pokemon is said to be a major player in the upcoming movie. Mightyena could evolve at some point throughout the movie and save the day or something. Makes perfect sense to me.
This (http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f299/PKIM82/13pb.jpg) is to advertise the new movie. You have legendaries, Pokemon who regularly appear in the anime, and Mightyena. Hmmm...

Quote from: Cornwad on February 07, 2010, 04:39:37 PM
The new Pokemon is said to be a major player in the upcoming movie. Mightyena could evolve at some point throughout the movie and save the day or something. Makes perfect sense to me.

Name one movie that does that.
It's like saying since Pikachu is in the movie, it's logical to think that he might evolve in it, become that, and save the day.
I'd bet money that it's not a Mightyena evo.

Quote from: JrDude ½ on February 07, 2010, 04:42:00 PM
Name one movie that does that.
It's like saying since Pikachu is in the movie, it's logical to think that he might evolve in it, become that, and save the day.
I'd bet money that it's not a Mightyena evo.

Mightyena is the most random Pokemon to have just appear out of nowhere in a movie. It isn't like Pikachu at all.

Quote from: Cornwad on February 07, 2010, 04:39:37 PM
This (http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f299/PKIM82/13pb.jpg) is to advertise the new movie. You have legendaries, Pokemon who regularly appear in the anime, and Mightyena. Hmmm...

With your logic.
It's a Buneary (SP?) evo.
I called it.

just a note Munchlax evolves in the movie it was introduced in, so mightyena could just as easily evolve

Or maybe the new movie is introducting a new trainer to the canon who just so happens to have a Mightyena.

I might also add that the movie is roughly translated as "Phantom Champion Z". It's based on the second generation legendaries. Z is probably the new Pokemon, and Dark or Ghost seems to fit with the Phantom part. Mightyena is dark. 
If it isn't a completely new Pokemon, I think it's safe to say it's a Mightyena evolution.

Quote from: mackormoses on February 07, 2010, 04:44:24 PM
Or maybe the new movie is introducting a new trainer to the canon who just so happens to have a Mightyena.

I thought of that, but it disappeared in the non-logic that Cornwad is introducing.

Quote from: Cornwad on February 07, 2010, 04:46:19 PM
I might also add that the movie is roughly translated as "Phantom Champion Z". It's based on the second generation legendaries. Z is probably the new Pokemon, and Dark or Ghost seems to fit with the Phantom part. Mightyena is dark. 
If it isn't a completely new Pokemon, I think it's safe to say it's a Mightyena evolution.

You can say it, but it's not. ;)

Rough translations are poop. That's called a "Calc Translation". In other words, you go word for word, and get a result. In my French class I had people translate one of my sentences into A good well that's too short. It should have been all's well that ends well.

It probably is the Mightyena that belongs to a new trainer... that then evolves into the new Pokemon. Like Gwen said, the first Generation IV Pokemon was revealed in a movie, and was advertised along with it.

Quote from: Cornwad on February 07, 2010, 04:50:34 PM
It probably is the Mightyena that belongs to a new trainer... that then evolves into the new Pokemon. Like Gwen said, the first Generation IV Pokemon was revealed in a movie, and was advertised along with it.

Actually, I can almost guarantee that it's not, it's likely a new Pokémon, non-evo of anyone, but if an evo of anyone, it isn't Mightyena.

Quote from: JrDude ½ on February 07, 2010, 04:52:20 PM
Actually, I can almost guarantee that it's not, it's likely a new Pokémon, non-evo of anyone, but if an evo of anyone, it isn't Mightyena.

Oh come on, you have no more idea on what it is than I do. I'm not saying it is definitely an evolution of Mightyena, but  it's a darn good guess. Mightyena is in the center of the bag for crying out loud, and it has never been important in the show before. The new thing looks like a werewolf and the movie title talks about something that could be dark. The new Pokemon is going to be in the new movie. That's not something you can say about Ninetails or Sandslash or any other Pokemon for that matter. Mightyena fits as perfectly as an already existing Poke can.

Quote from: Cornwad on February 07, 2010, 04:56:26 PM
Oh come on, you have no more idea on what it is than I do. I'm not saying it is definitely an evolution of Mightyena, but  it's a darn good guess. Mightyena is in the center of the bag for crying out loud, and it has never been important in the show before. The new thing looks like a werewolf and the movie title talks about something that could be dark. The new Pokemon is going to be in the new movie. That's not something you can say about Ninetails or Sandslash or any other Pokemon for that matter. Mightyena fits as perfectly as an already existing Poke can.

You can call it a good guess since it's your guess, but the thing is, it's still wrong. You can whine and complain all you want, but when it comes out, you will still be wrong.
A Pokémon with a big role will not evolve, I'm not sure about the Munchlax thing, but I have a feeling his role wasn't big, maybe a little role, but even if he had a big role, he's a prevo, not an evo.

I'm sorry, I didn't know you knew what the writers for the anime and the developers of the new games were thinking. But on the other hand, Shaymin was a major character and one of the movies and evolved into a new form... a new form that was being revealed for the first time and was shown in shadow before the movie opened. And then of course there was the whole notched ear Pichu thing... but of course that's completely different.

Does everyone just hate Mightyena or something? It wasn't even my idea, it's the one that makes the most sense.

Quote from: Cornwad on February 07, 2010, 05:07:33 PM
I'm sorry, I didn't know you knew what the writers for the anime and the developers of the new games were thinking. But on the other hand, Shaymin was a major character and one of the movies and evolved into a new form... a new form that was being revealed for the first time and was shown in shadow before the movie opened. And then of course there was the whole notched ear Pichu thing... but of course that's completely different.

Does everyone just hate Mightyena or something? It wasn't even my idea, it's the one that makes the most sense.

Those are different forms of Pokémon, not evolutions of them.
And actually, Mightyena is one of my favorites. And it only makes sense to you and a few others because you saw a bag with a picture on it, and the picture happened to have a pic of Mightyena, OSHI IT MUST BE A MIGHTYENA EVO :O
And I never claim to know what the developers are thinking, but you can say that all you want :)

I guess we'll just have to wait until next Monday.

Where is this supposed Mightyena, anyway?

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f299/PKIM82/13pb.jpg)

Quote from: Cornwad on February 07, 2010, 05:17:20 PM
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f299/PKIM82/13pb.jpg)

Celebi's pose seems old. Besides, why a bag?

I have absolutely no idea. But all of those Pokemon besides Mightyena have been confirmed to be in the movie, with Tangrowth being one of the main characters in the min Pikachu movie.

I'm just going to put this out there, but I think that that "thing" in the previous post in this thread that looks like Mightyena, is one one these things (keep in mind that I don't know where the picture was found or exactly what it's of):

• a Mightyena evolution
• an alternate Poochyena evolution
• random fan art of any kind of Mightyena or any related made-up Pokémon
• a new interpretation/"Forme" of Mightyena

Whatever it is, it looks cool and I hope the writers and developers have something good in store for us.

With the exception of legendaries, first-glimpse Pokemon tend to be... most random. Actually...

2nd Gen - Togepi, Donphan, Marill, Snubbull, Ho-Oh, Lugia
3rd Gen - Kecleon, Latios, Latias
4th Gen - Munchlax, Bonsly, Lucario

I can't remember any other preview Pokemon, so feel free to add more. Can't exactly say whether it's a legendary or not. When Lucario was revealed, everyone and their grandmother thought he was a legendary; being the star in a movie didn't exactly help. As for other choices, I agree with Mack's observation that there haven't been any (to my knowledge) new evolves as previews, so it would kind of make sense to choose one. The developers are indeed capable of thought, so anything we've thought of, they probably have, too.
As for the Mightyena argument, considering the circumstances, I would say it's certainly more plausible than most ideas, assuming the Pokemon is an evolution. Seriously, people have predicted the release of HG/SS from details far more abstract, such as the floors of Pokemon Centers in Gen 4. Whatever the case, we'll find out in two weeks.

Quote from: HorribleToad on February 07, 2010, 05:40:33 PM
I'm just going to put this out there, but I think that that "thing" in the previous post in this thread that looks like Mightyena, is one one these things (keep in mind that I don't know where the picture was found or exactly what it's of)

The coloring inside that image is completely fake. We were given an officially announced silhouette, that's it.

Quote from: Rius on February 07, 2010, 05:45:08 PM
Seriously, people have predicted the release of HG/SS from details far more abstract, such as the floors of Pokemon Centers in Gen 4. Whatever the case, we'll find out in two weeks.

...floors of Pokemon Centers? What in the world does that have to do with HG/SS or Johto?

Quote from: bluaki on February 07, 2010, 07:03:59 PM
...floors of Pokemon Centers? What in the world does that have to do with HG/SS or Johto?

The pokeball in the middle was gold and silver, or something like that.

All that image does is show that Piplup is in the movie. And a rock/tree. And mightyena. I'm really confused as to how it raises probability even still. The way I see it, any and all of the ones we've discussed (plus it being a whole new one) are equally as likely.

Piplup and Sudowoodo belong to trainers that are already often present in the anime, like Pikachu. It's a completely different story for Mightyena.

Quote from: So_So_Man on February 07, 2010, 08:30:04 PM
The pokeball in the middle was gold and silver, or something like that.

(http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/2/2b/Dppokecenter.PNG)

Quote from: bluaki on February 07, 2010, 07:03:59 PM
The coloring inside that image is completely fake. We were given an officially announced silhouette, that's it....

Oh. That explains a lot. Well my opinion is unchanged for that particular rendering anyway. As for the silhouette, do you know where I could find the official image?

Quote from: HorribleToad on February 08, 2010, 07:39:52 PM
Oh. That explains a lot. Well my opinion is unchanged for that particular rendering anyway. As for the silhouette, do you know where I could find the official image?

Serebii.net

I think this "Forme" garbage needs to end.

Quote from: Rius on February 07, 2010, 05:45:08 PM
With the exception of legendaries, first-glimpse Pokemon tend to be... most random. Actually...

2nd Gen - Togepi, Donphan, Marill, Snubbull, Ho-Oh, Lugia
3rd Gen - Kecleon, Latios, Latias
4th Gen - Munchlax, Bonsly, Lucario

I can't remember any other preview Pokemon, so feel free to add more. Can't exactly say whether it's a legendary or not. When Lucario was revealed, everyone and their grandmother thought he was a legendary; being the star in a movie didn't exactly help. As for other choices, I agree with Mack's observation that there haven't been any (to my knowledge) new evolves as previews, so it would kind of make sense to choose one. The developers are indeed capable of thought, so anything we've thought of, they probably have, too.
As for the Mightyena argument, considering the circumstances, I would say it's certainly more plausible than most ideas, assuming the Pokemon is an evolution. Seriously, people have predicted the release of HG/SS from details far more abstract, such as the floors of Pokemon Centers in Gen 4. Whatever the case, we'll find out in two weeks.

Gen 4: Mime Jr.  Appeared in the anime before we knew of a 4th gen.


i don't regularly watch the anime, but i remember heariing of a Mine Jr. early, i think Team Rocket had one.

Anyone know what the name is going to be? What region is the new game going to be based from?

Quote from: Razgriz2489 on February 09, 2010, 10:42:17 AM
Anyone know what the name is going to be? What region is the new game going to be based from?

No, that information probably won't be revealed for quite a while. We'll get this pokemon's info in 2 weeks, at least.

By the way, a rumor came out. The possible real appearance of the Pokemon is at Serebii.

YES. Serebii found out the REAL info on this pokemon!

[spoiler]Its a new species, not a mightyena evo. It's a "Monster Fox" pokemon, named Zoroaarku (Zoraork) with a pre-evo, Zorua. There are more to be revealed next month, also the Movie is titles "Phantom Champion Zoroark"[/spoiler]

YEAH

[spoiler](http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/6/68/CoroCoro_March_1.jpg)[/spoiler]

Quote from: Gwen Khan on February 10, 2010, 09:09:29 AM
[spoiler](http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/6/68/CoroCoro_March_1.jpg)[/spoiler]

Evil Fox Pokemon? I don't care if it looks evil. It looks evilly cute.

Also, it looked so random that Mightyena would get an evolution. Mightyena is technically the 3rd generation's Houndoom.

That's pretty much what I thought it would look like. We can always use another Dark four legged Pokemon like Mightyena and Houndoom. It's pre evolution looks a little silly.

It actually looks pretty cool.

Looks like a decent pokemon.

Now I just have to wonder how many pointless Gen1 or Gen 2 evolutions there will be, how many "copy/paste" jobs there are (Starly is a poor man's Pidgey and we all know it!), and if there are any Eeveelutions (I hope so)

Quote from: Nayrman on February 10, 2010, 11:43:46 AM
Looks like a decent pokemon.

Now I just have to wonder how many pointless Gen1 or Gen 2 evolutions there will be, how many "copy/paste" jobs there are (Starly is a poor man's Pidgey and we all know it!), and if there are any Eeveelutions (I hope so)

Um, Pidgeot is a poor man's Staraptor. (No Close Combat, Brave Bird, or respectable attack and speed) so i have no idea where the intercourse  your logic is coming from. While Starly was annoying, it's evo's were a decent step up from the last few generations birds (which all sucked)

I wish they could change the base stats of a Pokemon without giving them an evolution. An evolution for Farfetch'd and Dunsparce would be great, but then they wouldn't be Farfetch'd and Dunsparce anymore, which is lame.

Quote from: K on February 10, 2010, 12:34:50 PM
Um, Pidgeot is a poor man's Staraptor. (No Close Combat, Brave Bird, or respectable attack and speed) so i have no idea where the intercourse  your logic is coming from. While Starly was annoying, it's evo's were a decent step up from the last few generations birds (which all sucked)

I mean how Pidgey came first, and there is really no need to keep making "generic x-animal" pokemon when Generation's 1 and 2 pretty much handled all of those.

I mean seriously, between Pidgey, Swellow, and Starly, do we really need more generic birds?

Quote from: K on February 10, 2010, 12:34:50 PM
Um, Pidgeot is a poor man's Staraptor. (No Close Combat, Brave Bird, or respectable attack and speed) so i have no idea where the intercourse  your logic is coming from. While Starly was annoying, it's evo's were a decent step up from the last few generations birds (which all sucked)

I run Pidgeot. He's a fair U-turn user and he DOES learn Brave Bird. Granted, the only thing Pidgeot has over Staraptor other than appearance is its defenses are a lot better. If you care about Mirror Move and run Staraptor, you're missing out, because whereas Pidgeot can learn Brave Bird, Staraptor can't learn Mirror Move. Plus, Pidgeot's speed isn't all that bad anyways, especially outside of the OU enviroment.

Quote from: Nayrman on February 10, 2010, 01:15:25 PM
I mean how Pidgey came first, and there is really no need to keep making "generic x-animal" pokemon when Generation's 1 and 2 pretty much handled all of those.

I mean seriously, between Pidgey, Swellow, and Starly, do we really need more generic birds?

It's expected to have a cycle like that. I don't see why it's bad at all. Besides, anyone is wishing for something of the same species with differences over the first bird all the time.

Quote from: Cornwad on February 10, 2010, 01:02:43 PM
I wish they could change the base stats of a Pokemon without giving them an evolution.

Really, this. They should work on balancing the stats of the current fully-evolved Pokemon.

Quote from: Cornwad on February 10, 2010, 01:02:43 PM
I wish they could change the base stats of a Pokemon without giving them an evolution. An evolution for Farfetch'd and Dunsparce would be great, but then they wouldn't be Farfetch'd and Dunsparce anymore, which is lame.

Quote from: bluaki on February 10, 2010, 01:56:27 PM
Really, this. They should work on balancing the stats of the current fully-evolved Pokemon.

OH YES. THIS. I've always thought this. It would solve a lot of problems and make many things fairer in my opinion.

Quote from: Zero on February 10, 2010, 01:26:16 PM
I run Pidgeot. He's a fair U-turn user and he DOES learn Brave Bird. Granted, the only thing Pidgeot has over Staraptor other than appearance is its defenses are a lot better. If you care about Mirror Move and run Staraptor, you're missing out, because whereas Pidgeot can learn Brave Bird, Staraptor can't learn Mirror Move. Plus, Pidgeot's speed isn't all that bad anyways, especially outside of the OU enviroment.

Mirror Move sucks. I don't need it, thank you.

I like this new Pokémon. I've been pleasantly surprised.

Quote from: AuraChannelerChris on February 10, 2010, 01:32:40 PM
It's expected to have a cycle like that. I don't see why it's bad at all. Besides, anyone is wishing for something of the same species with differences over the first bird all the time.

But why not just put Pidgey as a wild pokemon from the start and use the new pokemon spots for more unique guys? I just see rehashes as utterly pointless.

Knew it wasn't related to Mightyena.
Looks like it's supposed to be badass, but for some reason I don't like it that much.

I somehow find the pre-evo WAY badder ass than the final form.

I get the feeling that this is supposed to be one of their best (like Luke was in DP) but I can't see it as "cool" or "badass" for some reason. It would be nice if all of the 5th generation Pokemon had as much time put into them as this one though.

It doesn't seem badass to me possibly because it's gray, black & red = cool, red & gray = meh

I expected Mightyena's coloring, but with the red it doesnt look as appealing. However, I'll have to see a game sprite. For some reason, those make me decide my opinion on the pokemon.

http://serebii.net/generation5/


notice how the eyes are green in one shot yet blue in the other

Quote from: Gwen Khan on February 12, 2010, 01:27:29 PM
http://serebii.net/generation5/


notice how the eyes are green in one shot yet blue in the other

Same with the hairband thingy.
Either a mess up in scan, or those change color depending on what it's doing (like if it uses a certain attack, it's eyes and hair thingy turn green maybe)

Quote from: JrDude ½ on February 12, 2010, 01:29:29 PM
Same with the hairband thingy.
Either a mess up in scan, or those change color depending on what it's doing (like if it uses a certain attack, it's eyes and hair thingy turn green maybe)

the tuff of red on Zorua head too, obviously it's the gender differences
and green eyed Zoroark is on two legs while blue eyes is one four

Quote from: Gwen Khan on February 12, 2010, 01:31:19 PM
the tuff of red on Zorua head too, obviously it's the gender differences

Uh...no. Both pictures have differing angles. They only look different because of the angles they're presented at.

Quote from: Gwen Khan on February 12, 2010, 01:31:19 PM
and green eyed Zoroark is on two legs while blue eyes is one four

As with a lot of pokemon, it can probably go on all fours or stand upright. The differing eye colors are irrelevant considering scans have these problems all the time.

You guys are reading too far into this.

Looks like a 3rd form of Buizel, sort of, anyway.

Quote from: Zero on February 12, 2010, 01:37:44 PM
Uh...no. Both pictures have differing angles. They only look different because of the angles they're presented at.
As with a lot of pokemon, it can probably go on all fours or stand upright. The differing eye colors are irrelevant considering scans have these problems all the time.

You guys are reading too far into this.

Someone told me that Zorua has 2 evolutions, one standing up, and one on all fours. I WANTED TO PUNCH THEM IN THE FACE.

People can be so stupid. Also, they're both bluish-green almost, seems entirely possible for the scan to alter it. OR, they could have changed their mind about the colors for the second images.

If the rest are as badass looking, I'm pleased.

I wonder if they're adding any new evo's of current pokemon this time.

Quote from: K on February 14, 2010, 08:53:14 AM
I wonder if they're adding any new evo's of current pokemon this time.

They always do.

Official art looks good.

I agree, it looks a lot better now.

I was fine with new pokemon until they made new evolutions of the original 150. There are some pokemon that just shouldn't evolve and they make dumb new pokemon.

Quote from: Mutilator<Seven> on February 15, 2010, 07:47:26 AM
I was fine with new pokemon until they made new evolutions of the original 150. There are some pokemon that just shouldn't evolve and they make dumb new pokemon.

As if all the gen 1 Pokemon were WOAHMYGOD COOL

Quote from: Michael Myers on February 15, 2010, 08:51:39 AM
As if all the gen 1 Pokemon were WOAHMYGOD COOL

(http://www.pokemondb.co.uk/images/artwork/lickilicky.png)

Was this Pokemon necessary? I think his point wasn't that the past gen pokemon were better, it was that some of their evolutions are downright retarded. So retarded in fact you FEEL retarded for looking at them. Lickilicky is really the only example I personally feel that way about, but I've heard comments about Magmortar, Probopass, and Electivire.

Electivire. And Lickilicky is just as stupid as Lickitung is -_-

I fully agree with Lickilily. What a intercourse ing stupid evolution. Electrivire seemed natural to me.

Quote from: Michael Myers on February 14, 2010, 09:15:57 AM
They always do.

Correction: any GOOD new evo's. last gen's weren't all good.. some of them just looked funny, and some were unneeded

The reason they keep making new evos is that, quite frankly, Gen 1 sucked competitive wise. Almost every single new Gen is stronger than the last stat wise, and Gen 1 is getting to the point where almost everyone is totally useless. As such, new evos allow people who liked concepts of certain old Gen pokemon to be able to use their lines in battle without losing within the first two minutes. Crobat, Lickilicky, Electivire, Magmortar, and Tangrowth are all prime examples of useful upgrades to formerly-useful-but-now-useless pokemon.

Tangrowth and Lickilicky are the only ones I hate, the rest I'm fine with.

Quote from: SmashBro25 on February 15, 2010, 05:11:19 PM
The reason they keep making new evos is that, quite frankly, Gen 1 sucked competitive wise. Almost every single new Gen is stronger than the last stat wise, and Gen 1 is getting to the point where almost everyone is totally useless. As such, new evos allow people who liked concepts of certain old Gen pokemon to be able to use their lines in battle without losing within the first two minutes. Crobat, Lickilicky, Electivire, Magmortar, and Tangrowth are all prime examples of useful upgrades to formerly-useful-but-now-useless pokemon.

Hi. Are you an?

How did Gen 1 suck competitively? If you look at it, it's the fastest metagame to have ever existed, even faster than 4th gen Ubers. You had powerhouses scrambling to hit each other with paralysis first and sweeping with ridiculous stats and OP moves like Psychic, only to get blocked by a Golem or Chansey, paralyzed, and swept by the other team. That's not 'suck'. That's archaic Pokemon. Lightning fast heavy offense. The game has evolved quite a bit from that time, but that is still the essence of the game.

Every single gen is stronger than the last stat-wise? What do you mean there? Are you saying that each new generation has undermined the viability of the previous one due to newer Pokemon being superior statistically? I find that to be hard to believe. Each generation has its gems and each generation has its failures. There are still a large amount of Pokemon in 1st Gen that are competent. Arcanine, Venusaur, Nidoking, and Kabutops are all supremely powerful Pokemon in UU. Gengar is one of the most unpredictable Pokemon in Standard. Zapdos's unique combination of types combined with its great stats makes it a featured Pokemon on many competitive teams. Starmie remains the best spinner in existence. Jolteon is a formidable special sweeper while Tentacruel has got a myriad of utility options. And then there's Gyarados, possibly the most frightening sweeper in the entire OU Metagame.  How can you say that newer generations eclipse previous ones when there is a balance between all of them?

"Crobat, Lickilicky, Electivire, Magmortar, and Tangrowth are all prime examples of useful upgrades to formerly-useful-but-now-useless pokemon"

Crobat is useless? Lickitung used to be useful? I think not. Crobat is useful in both OU where it functions well as a lead and sweeper and Ubers where it pummels opposing Pokemon with STAB Brave Birds. Golbat was never useful. It was a mediocre Pokemon in 1st gen, just like Lickitung and Tangela. Your statement actually contradicts your argument because you are saying(?) here that newer evos have made the old Pokemon worse when the rest of your paragraph says that newer Pokemon supplant older ones.

You guys are crazy, Tangrowth is the best. Did anyone even like Tangela?

Quote from: Aquaman on February 15, 2010, 06:18:30 PM
You guys are crazy, Tangrowth is the best. Did anyone even like Tangela?

Tangrowth looks retarded, I liked the way Tangela looked.

Wedge, if you notice, most 1st gen pokemon don't even have a base stat above 120. Maybe even 110. Even fearsome looking pokemon like Nidoking were weak statwise. As generations advanced, pokemon had the power to match their appearance (with a few exceptions, of course) and are generally used more competitively then 1st gen.

Looking at it, the only 1st gen pokemon that I'd use in battle are pretty much Snorlax, Aerodactyl, Starmie, Gyarados, the Eeveelutions and the legendary birds. The rest just don't have as much power as you'd expect. Look at Wigglytuff. It already evolved once (not counting Igglybuff) and it's still not much tougher than an un-evolved gen 4 pokemon.

There is Tentacruel, also. But newer generations have much more. Yes, Gyarados was from the 1st gen, and so have some my favorites (including Starmie). but after you get past those few viable 1st gen pokemon, there's nothing left. In the later gens, especially 4th, i can see myself using nearly every pokemon there in at least UU. (ignoring early-game bugs like Kricketune, they were never of much use) and if you look at the generations as a whole, first was generally the worst. Did you ever wonder why the majority of the new evos we got last gen were from 1st generation pokemon? Do you wonder why?

Down to one of those pokemon you mentioned. Golbat. It had potential, but not power. As in, it was crying out for a new evo. Crobat. It's one of the fastest pokemon out there, and it is the fastest Hypnosis user in the game. Combine that with a respectable Attack stat, good HP, and STAB Brave Bird and you have a pretty powerful addition to any team.

Quote from: Aquaman on February 15, 2010, 06:18:30 PM
You guys are crazy, Tangrowth is the best. Did anyone even like Tangela?

Quote from: JrDude ♦ on February 15, 2010, 06:20:07 PM
Tangrowth looks retarded, I liked the way Tangela looked.

I like Tangrowth. Could use a better Sp. Def though, but look at the way it looks. Strange, but what else could a Tangela evo look like. I like its size. It's like a MONSTER! :D

Quote from: Michael Myers on February 14, 2010, 09:15:57 AM
They always do.

I'd like to point out that the 3rd generation was quite lacking of new evolutions.

Quote from: JrDude ♦ on February 15, 2010, 06:20:07 PM
Tangrowth looks retarded, I liked the way Tangela looked.

Well a pile of vines with eyes is going to look pretty retarded no matter how you go about it.
(http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/e/e3/Spr_1b_114.png)
(http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/b/bd/Spr_4p_465_m.png)
They're pretty much the same thing, but Tangrowth is more massive with arms. It seems more retarded because Tangela is a classic. Also, it is actually useful.

I liked Tangela because I thought of it as a monster hiding in the vines, but now it looks like the blackness isn't darkness, but a face...

Quote from: K on February 15, 2010, 06:23:59 PM
Wedge, if you notice, most 1st gen pokemon don't even have a base stat above 120. Maybe even 110. Even fearsome looking pokemon like Nidoking were weak statwise. As generations advanced, pokemon had the power to match their appearance (with a few exceptions, of course) and are generally used more competitively then 1st gen.

Looking at it, the only 1st gen pokemon that I'd use in battle are pretty much Snorlax, Aerodactyl, Starmie, Gyarados, the Eeveelutions and the legendary birds. The rest just don't have as much power as you'd expect. Look at Wigglytuff. It already evolved once (not counting Igglybuff) and it's still not much tougher than an un-evolved gen 4 pokemon.

There is Tentacruel, also. But newer generations have much more. Yes, Gyarados was from the 1st gen, and so have some my favorites (including Starmie). but after you get past those few viable 1st gen pokemon, there's nothing left. In the later gens, especially 4th, i can see myself using nearly every pokemon there in at least UU. (ignoring early-game bugs like Kricketune, they were never of much use) and if you look at the generations as a whole, first was generally the worst. Did you ever wonder why the majority of the new evos we got last gen were from 1st generation pokemon? Do you wonder why?

Down to one of those pokemon you mentioned. Golbat. It had potential, but not power. As in, it was crying out for a new evo. Crobat. It's one of the fastest pokemon out there, and it is the fastest Hypnosis user in the game. Combine that with a respectable Attack stat, good HP, and STAB Brave Bird and you have a pretty powerful addition to any team.
I like Tangrowth. Could use a better Sp. Def though, but look at the way it looks. Strange, but what else could a Tangela evo look like. I like its size. It's like a MONSTER! :D
I'd like to point out that the 3rd generation was quite lacking of new evolutions.

Let's look at a breakdown of the generations of all OU Pokemon:

1st gen: 11
2nd gen: 10
3rd ge: 8
4th gen: 16

They are more or less equal, with a slight leaning towards 4th gen. However, you'll notice that 1st gen has more Pokemon in OU than 2nd or 3rd gen. Also, notice that I said Nidoking and company were useful in UU, not OU and I never once mentioned anything about a Pokemon's appearance relating to its potential in battle. You'll also notice that all OU 1st gen Pokemon have at least one base stat over 120 with the sole exception of Starmie, whose highest stat is Speed at 115, an incredibly useful base because it outspeeds Latias and Gengar. Moreover, base stats alone don't determine a Pokemon's potential. Abilities can ruin a Pokemon's ability to do anything useful. The lack of a movepool as well as detrimental typing are also hindering factors.

QuoteThe rest don't have as much power as you'd expect

Power doesn't dictate viability in the slightest. Blissey is by no means powerful. Neither are Skarmory or Ninjask. They have uses that don't require the sheer power of Tyranitar or Salamence. As I stated before, Pokemon has changed significantly from its conception and power isn't everything. The legendary birds (besides Zapdos) are all but useless in OU due to the prevalence of Stealth Rock even though they might have high BSTs. Look at Wigglytuff? How about we look at Mothim, or Wormadam, or Carnivine, or Pachirisu. How about Dustox or Huntail. How about Glaceon or Lumineon. Mawile or Skuntank. Every single generation has its intercourse  ups, so don't call out 1st gen on anything without looking at the big picture.

Quoteif you look at the generations as a whole, first was generally the worst. Did you ever wonder why the majority of the new evos we got last gen were from 1st generation pokemon? Do you wonder why?

Really, I fail to see why this is important because most of the new evolutions are useless anyways. Tangrowth is eclipsed by Celebi. Electivire is beyond useless now. Lickilicki, what the intercourse ? PorygonZ quickly fell into obscurity. Obviously there are ones that work such as Magnezone, but Magneton was useful prior to that evolution. Second gen got upgrades such as Yanmega, Gliscor, Magmoswine, and Weavile, all of which took completely useless Pokemon and gave them competitive viability, so I don't know why that hasn't come up yet.

QuoteDown to one of those pokemon you mentioned. Golbat. It had potential, but not power. As in, it was crying out for a new evo. Crobat. It's one of the fastest pokemon out there, and it is the fastest Hypnosis user in the game. Combine that with a respectable Attack stat, good HP, and STAB Brave Bird and you have a pretty powerful addition to any team.

Golbat had absolutely no potential whatsoever. It was the worst flying type in the game hands down. At least Farfetch'd got STAB CH Slash and Butterfree got Psychic. Hell, Golbat got 35 BP Wing Attack as its sole STAB. Crobat was also completely useless until 4th gen gave it the tools to abuse its high speed stat, so that argument won't work either.

QuoteI like Tangrowth. Could use a better Sp. Def though, but look at the way it looks. Strange, but what else could a Tangela evo look like. I like its size. It's like a MONSTER! :D

I really don't know why you said this, especially when you stated earlier that looks do not correlate with power, but whatever floats your boat.

People recognize more of the first genners to be able to point out that most of them suck. In the other generations you don't really know all of them, just the powerful/cool/over-exposed ones. I'm sorry Charizard isn't the best thing out there, but to perfectly honest, I've seen more poop come from the 3rd and 4th gens than words come out of Wedge.

And a lot of words come out of Wedge.

Let us not forget you probably gave up on memorizing all the pokemon after gen 2, and you probably didn't even know chimecho existed until gen 4 (I only knew because I found out about it and hunted for it in my Ruby).

And while 4th gen gave us a higher percentage of competitively apt pokemon within it's pokedex, it gave us poop that's WAY more useless than the 1st Gen.

So really we're just acknowledging the good and the bad of the 1st Gen, the gen you're familiar with, without acknowledging the negative side of the others.

Quote from: Wedge on February 15, 2010, 06:58:36 PM
Let's look at a breakdown of the generations of all OU Pokemon:

1st gen: 11
2nd gen: 10
3rd ge: 8
4th gen: 16

They are more or less equal, with a slight leaning towards 4th gen. However, you'll notice that 1st gen has more Pokemon in OU than 2nd or 3rd gen. Also, notice that I said Nidoking and company were useful in UU, not OU and I never once mentioned anything about a Pokemon's appearance relating to its potential in battle. You'll also notice that all OU 1st gen Pokemon have at least one base stat over 120 with the sole exception of Starmie, whose highest stat is Speed at 115, an incredibly useful base because it outspeeds Latias and Gengar. Moreover, base stats alone don't determine a Pokemon's potential. Abilities can ruin a Pokemon's ability to do anything useful. The lack of a movepool as well as detrimental typing are also hindering factors.

And where do you find the most underused and pathetic pokemon? HMMM FIRST GEN HURR

QuotePower doesn't dictate viability in the slightest. Blissey is by no means powerful. Neither are Skarmory or Ninjask. They have uses that don't require the sheer power of Tyranitar or Salamence. As I stated before, Pokemon has changed significantly from its conception and power isn't everything. The legendary birds (besides Zapdos) are all but useless in OU due to the prevalence of Stealth Rock even though they might have high BSTs. Look at Wigglytuff? How about we look at Mothim, or Wormadam, or Carnivine, or Pachirisu. How about Dustox or Huntail. How about Glaceon or Lumineon. Mawile or Skuntank. Every single generation has its intercourse  ups, so don't call out 1st gen on anything without looking at the big picture.

You're contradicting yourself there. LOOK POWER ISNT EVERYTHING BUT THESE WEAK THINGS SUCK. Also, you wanna go as far as Mothim, Dustox, or Wormadam? Fine. I would like to add Butterfree and Beedrill there too. Glaceon, i don't see where you're going with this. It's an Ice type with more than decent special attack, and once you've gotten past the always-awful stealth rock, it can even be used in UU. Now, since we're talking about Ice-types, lets take a peek at Dewgong, shall we? You say Lumineon? I say Seaking. Face it, with all the weaker pokemon you bring in from newe generations (they all have to have them) i'll just bring in more from the first.

QuoteReally, I fail to see why this is important because most of the new evolutions are useless anyways. Tangrowth is eclipsed by Celebi. Electivire is beyond useless now. Lickilicki, what the intercourse ? PorygonZ quickly fell into obscurity. Obviously there are ones that work such as Magnezone, but Magneton was useful prior to that evolution. Second gen got upgrades such as Yanmega, Gliscor, Magmoswine, and Weavile, all of which took completely useless Pokemon and gave them competitive viability, so I don't know why that hasn't come up yet.

Tangrowth eclipsed by celebi. HMM. How come celebi is OHKO'ed by so much as an un-STABed Megahorn but such attack will leave nothing more than a little dent in Tangrowth? Where's Tangrowth's Ghost and Dark weaknesses? Elective was quite useful. The only reason it's useless now is because every team has counters for it. EVERY TEAM. Lickilicky is rather decent in NU and UU because of it's access to Belly Drum and a STABed Explosion. Porygon-Z still remains one of the strongest special attackers in the game. And again, useless pokemon that gained viability. Isn't that why more than half the new evo's are of first gen pokemon? You didn't explain that.

QuoteGolbat had absolutely no potential whatsoever. It was the worst flying type in the game hands down. At least Farfetch'd got STAB CH Slash and Butterfree got Psychic. Hell, Golbat got 35 BP Wing Attack as its sole STAB. Crobat was also completely useless until 4th gen gave it the tools to abuse its high speed stat, so that argument won't work either.

Golbat had no potential on its own, but by its good speed and attack it just showed that it needed something. Also, Wing Attack has 60 BP, derp. Crobat has always been fast, and though it didn't have great attacks--- HEY, WAIT. DIDNT YOU JUST FUCKING SAY THAT POWER ISNT EVERYTHING. LOOK AT SKARMORY AND BLISSEY. YOU ARE A WALKING CONTRADICTION AREN'T YOU.

QuoteI really don't know why you said this, especially when you stated earlier that looks do not correlate with power, but whatever floats your boat.

So I'm not allowed to state my appreciation for Tangrowth's looks. I was talking to Jr, who mentioned how retarded he thought Tangela looked. Did I say once that i was trying to base its power on its looks? No. I was stating how it looked like a monster. Keep your nose out of where it doesn't belong, that didn't even pertain to this conversation in the slightest.

When/If the series makes a platform jump like from G/S/C to R/S/E they need to boost some pokemon's stats, or give SOME reason to use them. The tiers are really the only guide on which class of pokemon you want to use and ultimately what tier you want to compete in. I've never liked that. Balance is extremely hard to achieve, I know, but the game loses its luster when everyone runs the same team.

If not, then oh well. I'll still flock to the games like a mindless slave.

Quote from: Zero on February 16, 2010, 09:48:37 AM
When/If the series makes a platform jump like from G/S/C to R/S/E they need to boost some pokemon's stats, or give SOME reason to use them. The tiers are really the only guide on which class of pokemon you want to use and ultimately what tier you want to compete in. I've never liked that. Balance is extremely hard to achieve, I know, but the game loses its luster when everyone runs the same team.

If not, then oh well. I'll still flock to the games like a mindless slave.

They never have boosted stats, and i don't think its possible now. If gen 5 comes out on the DS, there's no way that any old pokemon are getting new base stats, since it would mess everything up. It would be nice if it happened, but stat changes are one thing thats not gonna happen. I guess GameFreak is sticking to the fact that you can't change a pokemon. You can't change its type, ability, or stats. The only thing you can do is change its movepool.

Oh, one more thing I'd like to say to Wedge. Where's that quote.. aha, here:

Quote from: Wedge on February 15, 2010, 06:58:36 PM
Let's look at a breakdown of the generations of all OU Pokemon:

1st gen: 11
2nd gen: 10
3rd ge: 8
4th gen: 16

They are more or less equal, with a slight leaning towards 4th gen. However, you'll notice that 1st gen has more Pokemon in OU than 2nd or 3rd gen. Also, notice that I said Nidoking and company were useful in UU, not OU and I never once mentioned anything about a Pokemon's appearance relating to its potential in battle. You'll also notice that all OU 1st gen Pokemon have at least one base stat over 120 with the sole exception of Starmie, whose highest stat is Speed at 115, an incredibly useful base because it outspeeds Latias and Gengar. Moreover, base stats alone don't determine a Pokemon's potential. Abilities can ruin a Pokemon's ability to do anything useful. The lack of a movepool as well as detrimental typing are also hindering factors.

You're trying to defend the fact that 1st gen has the second highest number of OUs. Well, did you ever think to notice that gens 2-4 have a little over 100 pokemon each, while gen 1 has the highest number, with 150 (well, 151)? Let's compare it to Gen 2. Gen 1 has a whole 50 MORE POKEMON that 2, but only ONE MORE OU.

let's throw a bit of math into this.

OUs in Gen 1: 11/151
OUs in Gen 2: 10/101
OUs in Gen 3: 8/134
OUs in Gen 4: 16/107

Wow, Gen 3 has more pokemon than I expected. Does it really have 126 non-OUs? Actually, i'm going to remove ubers from these numbers.

Gen 1: 11/149
Gen 2: 10/98
Gen 3: 8/126
Gen 4: 16/100

I think I might have missed a few Ubers, but that's pretty close. Hmm, should I eliminate the NFE's to get a better number? Maybe later, too much work now.

Let's try the percentage of OUs versus the total numbers:

Gen 1: 11/149 = 0.074%
Gen 2: 10/98 = 0.102%
Gen 3: 8/126 = 0.063%
Gen 4: 16/100 = 0.160%

Well there, eliminate 3rd gen (which we all agree had a lot of UUs in it) and 1st gen has the lowest OU ratio. Behind Gen 2 even. Where does this come in? No where yet. Once I eliminate NFEs we can have a more accurate set of results, but for now, i just wanted to put that out there.

Quote from: K on February 16, 2010, 04:59:24 AM
And where do you find the most underused and pathetic pokemon? HMMM FIRST GEN HURR
You're contradicting yourself there. LOOK POWER ISNT EVERYTHING BUT THESE WEAK THINGS SUCK. Also, you wanna go as far as Mothim, Dustox, or Wormadam? Fine. I would like to add Butterfree and Beedrill there too. Glaceon, i don't see where you're going with this. It's an Ice type with more than decent special attack, and once you've gotten past the always-awful stealth rock, it can even be used in UU. Now, since we're talking about Ice-types, lets take a peek at Dewgong, shall we? You say Lumineon? I say Seaking. Face it, with all the weaker pokemon you bring in from newe generations (they all have to have them) i'll just bring in more from the first.
Tangrowth eclipsed by celebi. HMM. How come celebi is OHKO'ed by so much as an un-STABed Megahorn but such attack will leave nothing more than a little dent in Tangrowth? Where's Tangrowth's Ghost and Dark weaknesses? Elective was quite useful. The only reason it's useless now is because every team has counters for it. EVERY TEAM. Lickilicky is rather decent in NU and UU because of it's access to Belly Drum and a STABed Explosion. Porygon-Z still remains one of the strongest special attackers in the game. And again, useless pokemon that gained viability. Isn't that why more than half the new evo's are of first gen pokemon? You didn't explain that.
Golbat had no potential on its own, but by its good speed and attack it just showed that it needed something. Also, Wing Attack has 60 BP, derp. Crobat has always been fast, and though it didn't have great attacks--- HEY, WAIT. DIDNT YOU JUST FUCKING SAY THAT POWER ISNT EVERYTHING. LOOK AT SKARMORY AND BLISSEY. YOU ARE A WALKING CONTRADICTION AREN'T YOU.
So I'm not allowed to state my appreciation for Tangrowth's looks. I was talking to Jr, who mentioned how retarded he thought Tangela looked. Did I say once that i was trying to base its power on its looks? No. I was stating how it looked like a monster. Keep your nose out of where it doesn't belong, that didn't even pertain to this conversation in the slightest.

Fine, let's ignore the ratios of Pokemon in OU because they don't really give conclusive data as to the supposed viability of each generation. I also apologize for talking about your remark about Tangrowth's appearance because I did not realize you were not talking to me due to the fact that the reply box does not give text quoted by the used quoted text.

Unfortunately, your arguments are somewhat flawed.

QuoteAnd where do you find the most underused and pathetic pokemon? HMMM FIRST GEN HURR

Maybe because 1st generation is also the generation with the most new Pokemon? I believe you pointed this out later on in your argument. I'm also inclined to argue that 4th gen had far more useless Pokemon than 1st gen, but a subjective point such as this does not make a good basis for argument.

QuoteYou're contradicting yourself there. LOOK POWER ISNT EVERYTHING BUT THESE WEAK THINGS SUCK. Also, you wanna go as far as Mothim, Dustox, or Wormadam? Fine. I would like to add Butterfree and Beedrill there too. Glaceon, i don't see where you're going with this. It's an Ice type with more than decent special attack, and once you've gotten past the always-awful stealth rock, it can even be used in UU. Now, since we're talking about Ice-types, lets take a peek at Dewgong, shall we? You say Lumineon? I say Seaking. Face it, with all the weaker pokemon you bring in from newe generations (they all have to have them) i'll just bring in more from the first.

No, all I said was "power does not dictate viability". I take back the 'in the slightest' part because that was a gross exaggeration and I apologize. Maybe I should clarify what I meant by saying power does not dictate viability by itself. This does not mean that 'weak things suck'. What it means is that there are many factors that go into determining whether a Pokemon is useful or not. I will go back to my earlier example of Blissey. Blissey's attack stat is worse than even Caterpie's. Caterpie is not generally used as an archetype for power. However, that does not stop Blissey from being useful. It is regarded as the best special wall in the game. How about Forretress? Not exactly powerful, but it has the capability to set up all three types of entry hazards, tank physical hits, spin away opposing hazards, and blow up when it's done to give the player a free switch. That's utility, not power. Smeargle is a third example. It's attack stat is also lower than Caterpie's and the rest of its stats are pitiful. However, it has access to every single move in the game making it an exceptional lead, spiker, sleeper, screener, or BPer. Mothim and friends are not useful because they do not have any traits that would make it favorable to a competitive team. It can't give support, it has low stats, it's incredibly weak to stealth rock, and it is outclassed in whatever it does by many other Pokemon. Glaceon is really not that great of a Pokemon. Of course it can be used in UU. Heck, anything can be used in UU. That doesn't mean that it'll be good, however. Glaceon is limited by its mediocre speed, horrid movepool, bad typing, and the existence of better candidates.

Again, you've said it yourself that 1st gen has more Pokemon than the rest of the generations, so it makes sense that it would have more weaker Pokemon too though weakness is truly a subjective measure, so this argument will go in circles regardless of what points are made by both sides. If you say that Pokemon X, Y, and Z are weak, I could make a counterargument for their usability. At the same time, if I accused Pokemon 4, 5, and 6 of being useless, you'd just come in with a response as to how useful they really are, so the point is moot here. Neither side can hold onto an advantage.

QuoteTangrowth eclipsed by celebi. HMM. How come celebi is OHKO'ed by so much as an un-STABed Megahorn but such attack will leave nothing more than a little dent in Tangrowth? Where's Tangrowth's Ghost and Dark weaknesses? Elective was quite useful. The only reason it's useless now is because every team has counters for it. EVERY TEAM. Lickilicky is rather decent in NU and UU because of it's access to Belly Drum and a STABed Explosion. Porygon-Z still remains one of the strongest special attackers in the game. And again, useless pokemon that gained viability. Isn't that why more than half the new evo's are of first gen pokemon? You didn't explain that.

Let's also forget about Tangrowth's inability to deal with Scizor, Heatran, and Metagross, the fact that it's set up fodder for Empoleon, Jirachi, Suicune, Restalk Gyarados, Restalk Kingdra, SubCharge Magnezone, Charge Beam Rotom, Curselax,  Restalk Tyranitar, or anything that resists Grass and has taunt, and it's near uselessness on teams that are set up correctly. Let's also overlook the fact that Tangrowth has no recovery move, no way to eliminate status, no access to reflect, and no resistance to Fighting-type attacks. Finally, let's pretend that Tangrowth isn't solidly UU while Celebi remains a useful OU Pokemon with high usage.

Also, no one in their right mind would switch Celebi into Heracross, and Tangrowth is 2HKOed anyway by even a Jolly Scarf Heracross's Megahorn, so that point is invalid as well. There is no OU Pokemon who commonly uses un-Stabbed Megahorn, though Rhyperior still 2HKOes Tangrowth with it. Erm, Electivire isn't used now because it is, in fact, useless. You don't really need a counter to Electivire at all. Anything that outspeeds it can pretty much deal with it, and its base 95 Speed stat doesn't help even at +1 speed when you consider all of the base 100 and base 110 scarfers running around.

QuotePorygon-Z still remains one of the strongest special attackers in the game.

Here is a prime example of when power does not dictate viability. People used to use Porygon-Z for it's Adaptability + Tri Attack, but now we know that it doesn't work very well. Its speed is only average and it lacks the ability to switch into even neutral attacks. As such, it fell into obscurity behind better special sweepers such as Latias, Gengar, Heatran, and Jolteon. Power means nothing if it can't be used.

QuoteGolbat had no potential on its own, but by its good speed and attack it just showed that it needed something. Also, Wing Attack has 60 BP, derp. Crobat has always been fast, and though it didn't have great attacks--- HEY, WAIT. DIDNT YOU JUST FUCKING SAY THAT POWER ISNT EVERYTHING. LOOK AT SKARMORY AND BLISSEY. YOU ARE A WALKING CONTRADICTION AREN'T YOU.

Even if I had said "Power isn't everything", this would still hold true. Golbat had no useful traits that allow it to survive competitively. Wing Attack has 35 BP in 1st gen, which is what we were talking about, unless you forgot that this is the only generation where Golbat does not evolve.

QuoteDIDNT YOU JUST FUCKING SAY THAT POWER ISNT EVERYTHING. LOOK AT SKARMORY AND BLISSEY. YOU ARE A WALKING CONTRADICTION AREN'T YOU.

Please stop doing that, it's getting tiresome. Fine, let's say that I said 'power isn't everything'. I did not contradict myself. I said Golbat had no potential in 1st gen. It was the worst flying-type in the game. It's best attack was base 35 power wing attack, not what you would call 'usable'.

Please try to think things through. Power is not the sole reason Golbat was bad. If it had some other useful trait, like high speed + wrap and Swords Dance or Thunder Wave or something, then guess what, it would be usable. Unfortunately, Golbat has no traits going for it. It is weak to Psychic, Ice Beam, and Thunderbolt, the three most common attacks in 1st gen. It's base stats are average at best and its movepool leaves much to be desired. Normal/Flying is a better typing combination in 1st gen due to the prevalence of Psychic attackers.

Butterfree also got Sleep Powder, which is probably better for it than Psychic anyways, so even it has more utility than Golbat.

Well, I'm tired and can't offer my full opinion until the morning, but i will say something to this:

Yes, you brought up how Blissey's attack is lower than Caterpie's. You forgot, special attack durrhurr. :P

That's it until morning XD

I hope more new Pokemon are revealed soon. How long did we have to wait between Munchlax and whatever was revealed second?

You'll also notice that Blissey's special attack is mediocre and not powerful at all.

Isn't this threads derailment amazing?  So far, its gone from "hey look, new Pokemon" to "Blissey is mediocre"

Who's saying Blissey was mediocre? If you would read the whole conversation, you would find that I say Blissey is useful even though she is not powerful.

But yes. The thread was derailed pretty hard.

Sorry mack =x

Quote from: K on February 16, 2010, 10:43:27 AM
They never have boosted stats, and i don't think its possible now. If gen 5 comes out on the DS, there's no way that any old pokemon are getting new base stats, since it would mess everything up. It would be nice if it happened, but stat changes are one thing thats not gonna happen. I guess GameFreak is sticking to the fact that you can't change a pokemon. You can't change its type, ability, or stats. The only thing you can do is change its movepool.

Yeah you're right. The only time anything was altered statwise was when Special Att and Special Def were split from one stat to two. The Special stat from R/G/B/Y ended up being one or the other and pokemon got a completely new base stat for the one left over.

Still, it'd be nice if some UU pokemon actually became a bit more useful.

Well this is a dumb argument. What you are essentially doing is throwing out everything that isn't OU as "weak," when you're just looking at the current metagame.

Back in the day RBY was based on speed and power. Back in the day the best pokemon was Tauros.

Since then it's moved in a different direction, several different times, and still remains turbulent today. There was a time when Weezing was used a hell of a lot. Now it's been kicked into obscurity like Judo. Though, with the rise and fall of different tactics, we see the rise and fall of different pokemon and strategies.

3rd gen had annoyers. Most of us forgot what that even IS today.

in 2nd gen Snorlax was the pro-est because it was the rise of set-up moves (competitively viable ones anyway), and now it's passed the baton to a more speed based metagame (though it can STILL rip poop up, it's just not the most usable).

Now we're just in one place, and it's easy to make stupid judgments. But while Scizor may dominate today, something weird may put Dragonite in the spotlight tomorrow.  I mean, I certainly didn't expect the rise of Scizor, or the fall of Donphan, the suicide-lead phenominon, the anti-lead follow-up, and what came after that.

The metagame could go from sweeper-heavy to stall-heavy at the snap of a finger, and different pokemon could see better days as usages switch.

So it's not about what's the most powerful, or what's OU and NU today, or what looks nice, or what doesn't have the right stats. It really just depends on the time.

Wow. I must have missed something in my few days of absence. All I can say is, "impressive discussion (from the looks of it anyway)."

I just reserved a copy of SoulSilver yesterday. :) I hope the new game turns out well--that goes for SoulSilver and the totally new one.

This guy is like Ditto, except more epic and with the ability to do other moves.

Quote from: JrDude ♦ on March 05, 2010, 06:21:02 PM
This guy is like Ditto, except more epic and with the ability to do other moves.

Maybe, but I don't really see why bother give it Transform. Mew knows that move as well, but I can't see a good strategy with Zoroark.

So guys...what did I miss update wise on the games? Does the Pokemon actually have the ability to transform? Or is it just a movie thing?

I have yet to see any info on the games, but by the looks of the movie, it will have some kind of transformation ability.

It can disguise itself as people and other pokemon, not sure exactly if it's like how Ditto transforms.

Quote from: Zero on March 07, 2010, 09:56:25 PM
It can disguise itself as people and other pokemon, not sure exactly if it's like how Ditto transforms.

Ditto can become anything in the anime.
Jesse: "Transform into this *hold up a pic of some guy I don't recognize"
*Ditto transforms into the actual picture, not the guy*

Quote from: Zero on March 07, 2010, 09:56:25 PM
It can disguise itself as people and other pokemon, not sure exactly if it's like how Ditto transforms.

I'm assuming like Latias did in Pokemon..5, was it? Where she turned into that girl...

Bulbapedia has some fake sprites, based on the artwork.
They look pretty decent, so you get an idea of what the two may look like in-game.

(http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/a/a3/SpriteZorua.png)
(http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/4/40/SpriteZoroark.png)

Quote from: Caveman on March 20, 2010, 08:56:53 PM
Bulbapedia has some fake sprites, based on the artwork.
They look pretty decent, so you get an idea of what the two may look like in-game.

(http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/a/a3/SpriteZorua.png)
(http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/4/40/SpriteZoroark.png)

That is fairly epic.

Quote from: JrDude ♦ on March 20, 2010, 09:00:24 PM
That is fairly epic.

Still don't like the evolution, but the baby gives me a gen 1/2 feeling, so I like it.

I originally didn't like the prevo, and the evo always looked pretty cool. They're growing on me though.

I see I missed some things here before this board moved down closer to Power On.