NSFCD's Unova Log

[FruitFlow]

It's better competitively than Quagsire.

LOL. How so?

[Kayo]

LOL. How so?

"LOL," you say, like some sort of middle school girl who has never even considered the fact that there are other Pokemon that can fare better than Generation II Pokemon.

Whiscash's Base Stat Total is higher. This gives it a higher Special Attack, Special Defense, and HP. Which also means it generally has more bulk. But it can also play an offensive role much better than Quagsire can. It's the only one to learn Dragon Dance, which after one or two boosts (Very possible due to the bulk and only having a single weakness) can make it a very dangerous threat in UU.

Look at Quagsire. No attacking power at all. It has no way to increase its power other than Curse, which takes a few uses before it becomes effective. And you have to be able to survive in those turns. Which you can do, just as long as something doesn't attack you. There aren't enough EVs to invest in what you need. If you go for HP and Defense, your unboosted Special Defense can't take more than one or two strong neutral hits. They will happen before you can get anywhere with Curse, seeing as you left no EVs in Attack. Or you can raise HP and Sp. Def, but then the Defense boosts you get from Curse are minimal, and physical hits will knock you down.

Hell, raise its Attack and HP. Without investing in a defense, those stats will be pretty low. (Its Special Defense can NOT get over 200 without EV investment, while its Defense just barely makes it. Its base 95 HP is lower than Whiscash's base 110 anyway. But now your Attack hits 295 before Curse, which is okay, if you can survive two hits before you attack. Or the opponent could send out a slow but powerful defensive wall, forcing Quagsire to try and get more Curses while its Speed stat is lower than anything. At this point the wall, granted it has decent attacking power, can take Quagsire down easily.

[FruitFlow]

Okay, after reading everything I partially agree with you.
Stat wise Whiscash wins, but ability wise Quagsire wins hands down.

I feel Curse is an excellent choice for Quagsire thanks to Unaware which would simply ignore Whiscash's Attack boost meaning the DD is a waste of an effort.

Also, if you're concerned about Sp. Def why not throw in Amnesia for buffing?
I use both Curse and Amnesia on my Wailord, and it's a wonderful tank.

[Kayo]

Okay, after reading everything I partially agree with you.
Stat wise Whiscash wins, but ability wise Quagsire wins hands down.

I feel Curse is an excellent choice for Quagsire thanks to Unaware which would simply ignore Whiscash's Attack boost meaning the DD is a waste of an effort.

Also, if you're concerned about Sp. Def why not throw in Amnesia for buffing?
I use both Curse and Amnesia on my Wailord, and it's a wonderful tank.

I decided not to even mention Amnesia. That was Whiscash's selling point in Gen III since it effectively cancelled out its only weakness after two uses. I guess Quagsire too, but they both can learn the move and I felt that it benefited neither side to be mentioned.

Also

I feel Curse is an excellent choice for Quagsire thanks to Unaware which would simply ignore Whiscash's Attack boost meaning the DD is a waste of an effort.

What the intercourse  are you talking about, no one said Quagsire and Whiscash were battling EACH OTHER. Your point here makes zero sense. Especially because mostly anything with a Grass attack can OHKO Quagsire even without a stat boost.

Let's look at the popular Grass Knot, even. Quagsire's weight puts it where Grass Knot hits with a base power of 80, not counting multipliers. Whiscash is much lighter, only taking base 40 damage from Grass Knot. Especially if a non-grass type is using the move, base 40 isn't a lot. It might not even kill Whiscash even though it has a 4x weakness. The power would still only be equal to a neutral base 160 power attack. A little stronger than a neutral Surf when used by a water-type (total power 142.5, which leaves only a 17.5 point difference, which is mostly negligable).

[FruitFlow]

My bad. I thought this whole debate was "Quagsire vs. Whiscash".
So yeah, ignore that part.

You're right about the weight.
Quagsire is heavier, and would most likely get OHKO'd by GK thanks to crapulent Sp. bulk.

[Kayo]

My bad. I thought this whole debate was "Quagsire vs. Whiscash".
So yeah, ignore that part.

You're right about the weight.
Quagsire is heavier, and would most likely get OHKO'd by GK thanks to crapulent Sp. bulk.

Yep. Whiscash was blessed with the second-lightest weight tier possible while not being a tiny, helpless Pokémon. Weight is a thing few people ever pay attention to.

[FruitFlow]

Yep. Whiscash was blessed with the second-lightest weight tier possible while not being a tiny, helpless Pokémon. Weight is a thing few people ever pay attention to.

Being light weighted isn't always a good thing though.
Since we now have moves that take full advantage of that such as Heat Crash, Heavy Bomber, etc.
In fact, to be tbqh I feel Body Slam would have made sense to have been a weight-based move.

[DededeCloneChris]

I'm currently training the monster of hell (Zweilous) to evolve it into the Godzilla monster-expy.

[Kayo]

I'm currently training the monster of hell (Zweilous) to evolve it into the Godzilla monster-expy.

I did that in one solid day. Elite Four did the trick.

[FruitFlow]

I'm currently training the monster of hell (Zweilous) to evolve it into the Godzilla monster-expy.

Aka best pokemon of this Gen (behind Conkeldurr of course).

[FruitFlow]

Found a King's Rock with Pick Up earlier.

[Kayo]

I double post because I'm so cool omg

Lately I've been working on catching 'em all. I'm going to seriously try to get the data of all as-of-yet available 646 Pokémon in Black before the next game comes out (whether we get a R/S remake or the 3rd game first)

I've only done it in Diamond, and I never finished it until after HGSS, sadly. I really want to try this.

[FruitFlow]

I'm not even going to bother catching every single one.
Having them in the Dex is enough for me.

[DededeCloneChris]

I'm not even going to bother catching every single one.
Having them in the Dex is enough for me.

The fact training them is much faster in this gen could probably be even faster than training all of them in previous versions.

[FruitFlow]

The fact training them is much faster in this gen could probably be even faster than training all of them in previous versions.

Well, not necessarily.
I don't really consider Audino grinding to be as fast as the VS. Seeker training.
Audino grinding is good, but it just doesn't feel as efficient as the VS. Seeker.