NSFCD

The biggest topic on Smash Boards right now is one i'm sure most of you are aware of: The question of whether or not Meta Knight should be banned from tournaments. It's been claimed that he's unbeatable, that everybody will want to pick him up, and has too many cheap techniques.

What do you guys think of this subject?

A regular "No," no need for the capital "O."

No, get over it. MK is just a little broken. Nothing like characteres in melee.

Uh, no. In fact, that makes him weaker, as there are going to be users that do nothing but study his Meta Game, and ultimately, cripple him. He's more than beatable, and I just can't see him banned.

The banning itself is stupid too.

Quote from: Ridley on November 06, 2008, 08:23:38 PM
No, get over it. MK is just a little broken. Nothing like characteres in melee.

Actually, Meta is incredibally broken...
but the man is kinda stupid since Snake and other long range types can beat him as long as they don't do anyting stupid...

Characters shouldn't be banned from smash.  If you can't beat someone, then you'd just better practice harder.

Pro Brawl will probably end up being a majority MK/Snake/whatever god tiers, just like pro Melee was 95% Fox/Falco/Sheik. I have yet to see any proof that he's so insanely broken he's literally unbeatable.

Tripping helps. :-\

Yes and no.

Yes, because, like lv9 chao said, MK will be in almost every match, making it not very diverse.
No, because, like Mack said, people will find a way to destroy/ruin MK.

He's not unbeatable at all.  There are many other characters who are way more broken than MK.  If you can't beat him, then just practice harder.  Exactly what Smash bro 25 mentioned.

Quote from: darklink140 on November 07, 2008, 02:56:13 PM
He's not unbeatable at all.  There are many other characters who are way more broken than MK.  If you can't beat him, then just practice harder.  Exactly what Smash bro 25 mentioned.

Name one character more broken than him. :D Seriously, no matter how good he is, he shouldn't be banned.

I've proven MK to be beatable over a hundred times by now.

Quote from: Ridley on November 06, 2008, 08:23:38 PM
No, get over it. MK is just a little broken. Nothing like characteres in melee.

Hahahahaha, no one in Melee was as dominant as Mk. At least Fox had bad/neutral matchups (with characters that are tournament viable. Don't give me that Yoshi poop, Dep).

Nayr, MK and Snake are about 55-45 in mk's favor. Snake destroys mk on the ground, but the milisecond snake is offstage he's done for. Just space your attacks well, get him off, and then up b him to his death at 30%. And no other "long range" character has anything on him. Marth? Space your attacks, get him off, gimp him with dair or whatever. Basically, MK is always the best choice. Period.

L9C, with mk not being banned, it won't be "MK/Snake/whoever" like you say. It'll be "mk/mk/mk". Why use someone else when he's always the best choice? Double blind picks, for example. You have no idea who the opponent will use. So you pick MK. Why? Because no matter who they use, you won't be at a disadvantage. You have a slight advantage in every case. Also, Marth was used more than Falco or Sheik, and Peach and Falcon were used a ton too. :P

DL, you are dumb. No one is as good as mk in Brawl. Don't give me that Ike or Pit bullpoop, please.

Ridley, there is a time for banning. Akuma from SF2 is a good example. He's not just better than every character in the game. He's at LEAST 10x better than everyone. Some characters just completely destroy the metagame.

Qsmash, beating level 9 computers and other random scrubs who probably suck with MK, even with him being insanely easy to use, does not count.

And even after all of this, I'm not in favor of banning him. I'm completely neutral.

Uh meta knight is pretty broken, but not as bad to ban him from tournies

Quote from: Dawei on November 07, 2008, 04:30:47 PM

Quote from: Ridley on November 06, 2008, 08:23:38 PM
No, get over it. MK is just a little broken. Nothing like characteres in melee.

Hahahahaha, no one in Melee was as dominant as Mk. At least Fox had bad/neutral matchups (with characters that are tournament viable. Don't give me that Yoshi s***, Dep).

Nayr, MK and Snake are about 55-45 in mk's favor. Snake destroys mk on the ground, but the milisecond snake is offstage he's done for. Just space your attacks well, get him off, and then up b him to his death at 30%. And no other "long range" character has anything on him. Marth? Space your attacks, get him off, gimp him with dair or whatever. Basically, MK is always the best choice. Period.

L9C, with mk not being banned, it won't be "MK/Snake/whoever" like you say. It'll be "mk/mk/mk". Why use someone else when he's always the best choice? Double blind picks, for example. You have no idea who the opponent will use. So you pick MK. Why? Because no matter who they use, you won't be at a disadvantage. You have a slight advantage in every case. Also, Marth was used more than Falco or Sheik, and Peach and Falcon were used a ton too. :P

DL, you are dumb. No one is as good as mk in Brawl. Don't give me that Ike or Pit bulls***, please.

Ridley, there is a time for banning. Akuma from SF2 is a good example. He's not just better than every character in the game. He's at LEAST 10x better than everyone. Some characters just completely destroy the metagame.

Qsmash, beating level 9 computers and other random scrubs who probably suck with MK, even with him being insanely easy to use, does not count.

And even after all of this, I'm not in favor of banning him. I'm completely neutral.

But Snake is the only character to genuinely have any sort of advantage over Metaknight.
I still want to know how Metaknight's attacks were made faster than Sonic's....
I guess we know why Sakurai didn't want to put DDD and Meta in Smash... it's obvious he played favorites with Meta (his reported favorite creation)

Yoshi has a chaingrab on mk, if you are good at timing you can do a spike at the end (not that it works very good), and you get a free upsmash out of it which can kill him at like, 95% if it's fresh. He's still only 50-50 though since MK is too good. Not to mention no one uses Yoshi in tourneys since past that he sucks.

Quote from: Nayrman on November 07, 2008, 05:42:50 PM

Quote from: Cogs on November 07, 2008, 04:30:47 PM

Quote from: Ridley on November 06, 2008, 08:23:38 PM
No, get over it. MK is just a little broken. Nothing like characteres in melee.

Hahahahaha, no one in Melee was as dominant as Mk. At least Fox had bad/neutral matchups (with characters that are tournament viable. Don't give me that Yoshi s***, Dep).

Nayr, MK and Snake are about 55-45 in mk's favor. Snake destroys mk on the ground, but the milisecond snake is offstage he's done for. Just space your attacks well, get him off, and then up b him to his death at 30%. And no other "long range" character has anything on him. Marth? Space your attacks, get him off, gimp him with dair or whatever. Basically, MK is always the best choice. Period.

L9C, with mk not being banned, it won't be "MK/Snake/whoever" like you say. It'll be "mk/mk/mk". Why use someone else when he's always the best choice? Double blind picks, for example. You have no idea who the opponent will use. So you pick MK. Why? Because no matter who they use, you won't be at a disadvantage. You have a slight advantage in every case. Also, Marth was used more than Falco or Sheik, and Peach and Falcon were used a ton too. :P

DL, you are dumb. No one is as good as mk in Brawl. Don't give me that Ike or Pit bulls***, please.

Ridley, there is a time for banning. Akuma from SF2 is a good example. He's not just better than every character in the game. He's at LEAST 10x better than everyone. Some characters just completely destroy the metagame.

Qsmash, beating level 9 computers and other random scrubs who probably suck with MK, even with him being insanely easy to use, does not count.

And even after all of this, I'm not in favor of banning him. I'm completely neutral.

But Snake is the only character to genuinely have any sort of advantage over Metaknight.
I still want to know how Metaknight's attacks were made faster than Sonic's....
I guess we know why Sakurai didn't want to put DDD and Meta in Smash... it's obvious he played favorites with Meta (his reported favorite creation)

Its because Meta's sword, Galaxia, is a sword that can break the sound barrier (i think)

Quote from: PLAYAT on November 07, 2008, 05:49:44 PM

Quote from: Nayrman on November 07, 2008, 05:42:50 PM

Quote from: Cogs on November 07, 2008, 04:30:47 PM

Quote from: Ridley on November 06, 2008, 08:23:38 PM
No, get over it. MK is just a little broken. Nothing like characteres in melee.

Hahahahaha, no one in Melee was as dominant as Mk. At least Fox had bad/neutral matchups (with characters that are tournament viable. Don't give me that Yoshi s***, Dep).

Nayr, MK and Snake are about 55-45 in mk's favor. Snake destroys mk on the ground, but the milisecond snake is offstage he's done for. Just space your attacks well, get him off, and then up b him to his death at 30%. And no other "long range" character has anything on him. Marth? Space your attacks, get him off, gimp him with dair or whatever. Basically, MK is always the best choice. Period.

L9C, with mk not being banned, it won't be "MK/Snake/whoever" like you say. It'll be "mk/mk/mk". Why use someone else when he's always the best choice? Double blind picks, for example. You have no idea who the opponent will use. So you pick MK. Why? Because no matter who they use, you won't be at a disadvantage. You have a slight advantage in every case. Also, Marth was used more than Falco or Sheik, and Peach and Falcon were used a ton too. :P

DL, you are dumb. No one is as good as mk in Brawl. Don't give me that Ike or Pit bulls***, please.

Ridley, there is a time for banning. Akuma from SF2 is a good example. He's not just better than every character in the game. He's at LEAST 10x better than everyone. Some characters just completely destroy the metagame.

Qsmash, beating level 9 computers and other random scrubs who probably suck with MK, even with him being insanely easy to use, does not count.

And even after all of this, I'm not in favor of banning him. I'm completely neutral.

But Snake is the only character to genuinely have any sort of advantage over Metaknight.
I still want to know how Metaknight's attacks were made faster than Sonic's....
I guess we know why Sakurai didn't want to put DDD and Meta in Smash... it's obvious he played favorites with Meta (his reported favorite creation)

Its because Meta's sword, Galaxia, is a sword that can break the sound barrier (i think)

Actually it can can "create tornadoes, waves of fire, and electric force fields", those don't break the sound barrier

I think you guys are being dumb and thinking too hard. He was just made like that cause he was made like that. If we were being literal Mario couldn't use fireballs unless he was using the fire costume and other dumb things.

Quote from: Dawei on November 07, 2008, 06:00:01 PM
I think you guys are being dumb and thinking too hard. He was just made like that cause he was made like that. If we were being literal Mario couldn't use fireballs unless he was using the fire costume and other dumb things.

No need to get angry either.

Anyway, I think it was easy to find Meta Knight broken, who knows, maybe all the characters are broken if you just keep searching for strategies.

Quote from: Ridley on November 07, 2008, 04:00:26 PM

Quote from: darklink140 on November 07, 2008, 02:56:13 PM
He's not unbeatable at all.  There are many other characters who are way more broken than MK.  If you can't beat him, then just practice harder.  Exactly what Smash bro 25 mentioned.

Name one character more broken than him. :D Seriously, no matter how good he is, he shouldn't be banned.

Exactly.

And yes, I know no characters are as broken as him.  A mistake, Dawei.

I think it ultimately depends on the player, not the character.  I mean, no matter how broken you guys say Metaknight is, I'm not gonna be winning any tournaments with him while I'm a mediocre player who mains with Pikachu.  :P

*sigh*

I've looked at the posts and for the most part... few people have grasped the big picture.
This will basically not effect anyone here, its not like I'm going to go to people and tell them they can't use MK in our matches.
We aren't pro's... it doesn't matter.

HOWEVER, looking at it from a tourney perspective, MK is almost unfair.
Almost all his match ups (If I remember correctly) are better than 60-40 in MK's favor. He is simply too good to be used in tourneys where money is actually on the line, no one else stands a snowball's chance in hell against a well trained MK. So if the decision were up to me, I would say let the individual tourneys decide whether or not to ban MK; making the ban an option for the tourney runners to decide themselves.

Its more realistic than an all out ban in my opinion and that way people won;t whine (as previous posters here have  ::)) about how we need to learn how to beat MK or study his Meta Game more. Its happened to other fighting games, Brawl is not an exception.

Quote from: HTA on November 08, 2008, 07:55:38 AM
*sigh*

I've looked at the posts and for the most part... few people have grasped the big picture.
This will basically not effect anyone here, its not like I'm going to go to people and tell them they can't use MK in our matches.
We aren't pro's... it doesn't matter.

HOWEVER, looking at it from a tourney perspective, MK is almost unfair.
Almost all his match ups (If I remember correctly) are better than 60-40 in MK's favor. He is simply too good to be used in tourneys where money is actually on the line, no one else stands a snowball's chance in hell against a well trained MK. So if the decision were up to me, I would say let the individual tourneys decide whether or not to ban MK; making the ban an option for the tourney runners to decide themselves.

Its more realistic than an all out ban in my opinion and that way people won;t whine (as previous posters here have  ::)) about how we need to learn how to beat MK or study his Meta Game more. Its happened to other fighting games, Brawl is not an exception.

I think Dawei said Snake is 55-45 Meta or something along those lines...
Basically Snake is the only one who can actually deal with Metaknight at least consistantly. As I've said before, Snake needs to be blatantly nerfed next game. B up cannot be a glide, attacks either need to be a poopload slower or a poopload less powerful for smashes...and so on.
But meh, it is the least balanced of all the smashes so far... X_X;;

Quote from: Nayrman on November 08, 2008, 08:22:37 AM

Quote from: HTA on November 08, 2008, 07:55:38 AM
*sigh*

I've looked at the posts and for the most part... few people have grasped the big picture.
This will basically not effect anyone here, its not like I'm going to go to people and tell them they can't use MK in our matches.
We aren't pro's... it doesn't matter.

HOWEVER, looking at it from a tourney perspective, MK is almost unfair.
Almost all his match ups (If I remember correctly) are better than 60-40 in MK's favor. He is simply too good to be used in tourneys where money is actually on the line, no one else stands a snowball's chance in hell against a well trained MK. So if the decision were up to me, I would say let the individual tourneys decide whether or not to ban MK; making the ban an option for the tourney runners to decide themselves.

Its more realistic than an all out ban in my opinion and that way people won;t whine (as previous posters here have  ::)) about how we need to learn how to beat MK or study his Meta Game more. Its happened to other fighting games, Brawl is not an exception.

I think Cogs said Snake is 55-45 Meta or something along those lines...
Basically Snake is the only one who can actually deal with Metaknight at least consistantly. As I've said before, Snake needs to be blatantly nerfed next game. B up cannot be a glide, attacks either need to be a s***load slower or a s***load less powerful for smashes...and so on.
But meh, it is the least balanced of all the smashes so far... X_X;;

55-45 is not consistent, its still a toss up...
Even then, you would need to have Dook level Snake skills (Basically beyond amazing) to even let that match-up work.
Only thing that needs to be lowered is tilt strength and Standard A strength really.

As for balanced, the top tier is horribly unbalanced, much worse than Melee.

MK and Snake are God and Demigod tier respectively (I know demigod tier doesn't exist :P), and characters like C. Falcon and Gdorf have no chance at all. Extremes on both ends.
In Melee, at least the top was shared rather evenly (Marth, Fox, Falco, C. Falcon, IC etc.) and all had a fairly even footing when it came to tourneys. Now, that is not the case. In Melee, you would even see a couple Mewtwo wins or Luigi wins... the only time a lower tier character would win in Brawl is if the other player was asleep. :(

Quote from: HTA on November 08, 2008, 09:09:31 AM

Quote from: Nayrman on November 08, 2008, 08:22:37 AM

Quote from: HTA on November 08, 2008, 07:55:38 AM
*sigh*

I've looked at the posts and for the most part... few people have grasped the big picture.
This will basically not effect anyone here, its not like I'm going to go to people and tell them they can't use MK in our matches.
We aren't pro's... it doesn't matter.

HOWEVER, looking at it from a tourney perspective, MK is almost unfair.
Almost all his match ups (If I remember correctly) are better than 60-40 in MK's favor. He is simply too good to be used in tourneys where money is actually on the line, no one else stands a snowball's chance in hell against a well trained MK. So if the decision were up to me, I would say let the individual tourneys decide whether or not to ban MK; making the ban an option for the tourney runners to decide themselves.

Its more realistic than an all out ban in my opinion and that way people won;t whine (as previous posters here have  ::)) about how we need to learn how to beat MK or study his Meta Game more. Its happened to other fighting games, Brawl is not an exception.

I think Cogs said Snake is 55-45 Meta or something along those lines...
Basically Snake is the only one who can actually deal with Metaknight at least consistantly. As I've said before, Snake needs to be blatantly nerfed next game. B up cannot be a glide, attacks either need to be a s***load slower or a s***load less powerful for smashes...and so on.
But meh, it is the least balanced of all the smashes so far... X_X;;

55-45 is not consistent, its still a toss up...
Even then, you would need to have Dook level Snake skills (Basically beyond amazing) to even let that match-up work.
Only thing that needs to be lowered is tilt strength and Standard A strength really.

As for balanced, the top tier is horribly unbalanced, much worse than Melee.

MK and Snake are God and Demigod tier respectively (I know demigod tier doesn't exist :P), and characters like C. Falcon and Gdorf have no chance at all. Extremes on both ends.
In Melee, at least the top was shared rather evenly (Marth, Fox, Falco, C. Falcon, IC etc.) and all had a fairly even footing when it came to tourneys. Now, that is not the case. In Melee, you would even see a couple Mewtwo wins or Luigi wins... the only time a lower tier character would win in Brawl is if the other player was asleep. :(

All you said could be true but the people at the smash boards who actually play at those tournies for money don't want a ban either.

Quote from: Ridley on November 08, 2008, 10:20:23 AM

Quote from: HTA on November 08, 2008, 09:09:31 AM

Quote from: Nayrman on November 08, 2008, 08:22:37 AM

Quote from: HTA on November 08, 2008, 07:55:38 AM
*sigh*

I've looked at the posts and for the most part... few people have grasped the big picture.
This will basically not effect anyone here, its not like I'm going to go to people and tell them they can't use MK in our matches.
We aren't pro's... it doesn't matter.

HOWEVER, looking at it from a tourney perspective, MK is almost unfair.
Almost all his match ups (If I remember correctly) are better than 60-40 in MK's favor. He is simply too good to be used in tourneys where money is actually on the line, no one else stands a snowball's chance in hell against a well trained MK. So if the decision were up to me, I would say let the individual tourneys decide whether or not to ban MK; making the ban an option for the tourney runners to decide themselves.

Its more realistic than an all out ban in my opinion and that way people won;t whine (as previous posters here have  ::)) about how we need to learn how to beat MK or study his Meta Game more. Its happened to other fighting games, Brawl is not an exception.

I think Cogs said Snake is 55-45 Meta or something along those lines...
Basically Snake is the only one who can actually deal with Metaknight at least consistantly. As I've said before, Snake needs to be blatantly nerfed next game. B up cannot be a glide, attacks either need to be a s***load slower or a s***load less powerful for smashes...and so on.
But meh, it is the least balanced of all the smashes so far... X_X;;

55-45 is not consistent, its still a toss up...
Even then, you would need to have Dook level Snake skills (Basically beyond amazing) to even let that match-up work.
Only thing that needs to be lowered is tilt strength and Standard A strength really.

As for balanced, the top tier is horribly unbalanced, much worse than Melee.

MK and Snake are God and Demigod tier respectively (I know demigod tier doesn't exist :P), and characters like C. Falcon and Gdorf have no chance at all. Extremes on both ends.
In Melee, at least the top was shared rather evenly (Marth, Fox, Falco, C. Falcon, IC etc.) and all had a fairly even footing when it came to tourneys. Now, that is not the case. In Melee, you would even see a couple Mewtwo wins or Luigi wins... the only time a lower tier character would win in Brawl is if the other player was asleep. :(

All you said could be true but the people at the smash boards who actually play at those tournies for money don't want a ban either.

Do they use Meta-Knight?

Quote from: HTA on November 08, 2008, 11:43:50 AM

Quote from: Ridley on November 08, 2008, 10:20:23 AM

Quote from: HTA on November 08, 2008, 09:09:31 AM

Quote from: Nayrman on November 08, 2008, 08:22:37 AM

Quote from: HTA on November 08, 2008, 07:55:38 AM
*sigh*

I've looked at the posts and for the most part... few people have grasped the big picture.
This will basically not effect anyone here, its not like I'm going to go to people and tell them they can't use MK in our matches.
We aren't pro's... it doesn't matter.

HOWEVER, looking at it from a tourney perspective, MK is almost unfair.
Almost all his match ups (If I remember correctly) are better than 60-40 in MK's favor. He is simply too good to be used in tourneys where money is actually on the line, no one else stands a snowball's chance in hell against a well trained MK. So if the decision were up to me, I would say let the individual tourneys decide whether or not to ban MK; making the ban an option for the tourney runners to decide themselves.

Its more realistic than an all out ban in my opinion and that way people won;t whine (as previous posters here have  ::)) about how we need to learn how to beat MK or study his Meta Game more. Its happened to other fighting games, Brawl is not an exception.

I think Cogs said Snake is 55-45 Meta or something along those lines...
Basically Snake is the only one who can actually deal with Metaknight at least consistantly. As I've said before, Snake needs to be blatantly nerfed next game. B up cannot be a glide, attacks either need to be a s***load slower or a s***load less powerful for smashes...and so on.
But meh, it is the least balanced of all the smashes so far... X_X;;

55-45 is not consistent, its still a toss up...
Even then, you would need to have Dook level Snake skills (Basically beyond amazing) to even let that match-up work.
Only thing that needs to be lowered is tilt strength and Standard A strength really.

As for balanced, the top tier is horribly unbalanced, much worse than Melee.

MK and Snake are God and Demigod tier respectively (I know demigod tier doesn't exist :P), and characters like C. Falcon and Gdorf have no chance at all. Extremes on both ends.
In Melee, at least the top was shared rather evenly (Marth, Fox, Falco, C. Falcon, IC etc.) and all had a fairly even footing when it came to tourneys. Now, that is not the case. In Melee, you would even see a couple Mewtwo wins or Luigi wins... the only time a lower tier character would win in Brawl is if the other player was asleep. :(

All you said could be true but the people at the smash boards who actually play at those tournies for money don't want a ban either.

Do they use Meta-Knight?

...I go to the Rob boards... So no, they use Rob.

Quote from: Ridley on November 08, 2008, 12:22:48 PM

Quote from: HTA on November 08, 2008, 11:43:50 AM

Quote from: Ridley on November 08, 2008, 10:20:23 AM

Quote from: HTA on November 08, 2008, 09:09:31 AM

Quote from: Nayrman on November 08, 2008, 08:22:37 AM

Quote from: HTA on November 08, 2008, 07:55:38 AM
*sigh*

I've looked at the posts and for the most part... few people have grasped the big picture.
This will basically not effect anyone here, its not like I'm going to go to people and tell them they can't use MK in our matches.
We aren't pro's... it doesn't matter.

HOWEVER, looking at it from a tourney perspective, MK is almost unfair.
Almost all his match ups (If I remember correctly) are better than 60-40 in MK's favor. He is simply too good to be used in tourneys where money is actually on the line, no one else stands a snowball's chance in hell against a well trained MK. So if the decision were up to me, I would say let the individual tourneys decide whether or not to ban MK; making the ban an option for the tourney runners to decide themselves.

Its more realistic than an all out ban in my opinion and that way people won;t whine (as previous posters here have  ::)) about how we need to learn how to beat MK or study his Meta Game more. Its happened to other fighting games, Brawl is not an exception.

I think Cogs said Snake is 55-45 Meta or something along those lines...
Basically Snake is the only one who can actually deal with Metaknight at least consistantly. As I've said before, Snake needs to be blatantly nerfed next game. B up cannot be a glide, attacks either need to be a s***load slower or a s***load less powerful for smashes...and so on.
But meh, it is the least balanced of all the smashes so far... X_X;;

55-45 is not consistent, its still a toss up...
Even then, you would need to have Dook level Snake skills (Basically beyond amazing) to even let that match-up work.
Only thing that needs to be lowered is tilt strength and Standard A strength really.

As for balanced, the top tier is horribly unbalanced, much worse than Melee.

MK and Snake are God and Demigod tier respectively (I know demigod tier doesn't exist :P), and characters like C. Falcon and Gdorf have no chance at all. Extremes on both ends.
In Melee, at least the top was shared rather evenly (Marth, Fox, Falco, C. Falcon, IC etc.) and all had a fairly even footing when it came to tourneys. Now, that is not the case. In Melee, you would even see a couple Mewtwo wins or Luigi wins... the only time a lower tier character would win in Brawl is if the other player was asleep. :(

All you said could be true but the people at the smash boards who actually play at those tournies for money don't want a ban either.

Do they use Meta-Knight?

...I go to the Rob boards... So no, they use Rob.

So... are you speaking for the Rob boards or for the entirety of Smash Boards... because I'm sure this notion to ban MK didn't come out of mid-air.

And if everyone opposed it, the matter would have been decided by now.

Quote from: Ridley on November 08, 2008, 12:22:48 PM

...I go to the Rob boards... So no, they use Rob.

Overswarm (arguably the best ROB) is the biggest advocate for the banning of metaknight.

It's 55-45 in MK's favor, not Snake's.

Quote from: Red Alert on November 08, 2008, 05:46:46 PM

Quote from: Ridley on November 08, 2008, 12:22:48 PM

...I go to the Rob boards... So no, they use Rob.

Overswarm (arguably the best ROB) is the biggest advocate for the banning of metaknight.

Overswarm is the Rob board now? What about Sudai? Or Hugs? Or Toasty? Or Maxxxpower?

As long as the opponent has the ability to move why should meta be restricted.  every character is cheap in their own way depending on the player.  can't accept it fine but it's the truth.  life is tough and so is gaming.  and one more thing, he's not unbeatable.

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on November 14, 2008, 05:35:53 PM
As long as the opponent has the ability to move why should meta be restricted.  every character is cheap in their own way depending on the player.  can't accept it fine but it's the truth.  life is tough and so is gaming.  and one more thing, he's not unbeatable.

Depending on the player works for low level people. They can get around something simple, so they bawl about this. But these are the best of the best. If they can't get past something, no one can.
And it's not that he's "unbeatable". It's that it's an uphill battle with every single character in the game, and that vs a m2k level mk, it's borderline impossible to win, since that's when matchups truly come into play.

I would agree that meta knight is broken, but only because of the infinite cape and how all his arials have prioty over the other guy's moves. I learned the hard way when I attempted to spike Tollhouse's meta knight offstage with Falco.

Quote from: tibar21 on November 14, 2008, 06:43:08 PM
I would agree that meta knight is broken, but only because of the infinite cape and how all his arials have prioty over the other guy's moves. I learned the hard way when I attempted to spike Tollhouse's meta knight offstage with Falco.

Infinite cape is banned, so it doesn't count.

Quote from: Dawei on November 14, 2008, 07:24:01 PM

Quote from: tibar21 on November 14, 2008, 06:43:08 PM
I would agree that meta knight is broken, but only because of the infinite cape and how all his arials have prioty over the other guy's moves. I learned the hard way when I attempted to spike Tollhouse's meta knight offstage with Falco.

Infinite cape is banned, so it doesn't count.

still, the ariels are a bigger deal than the infinite cape anyway. I kinda got mad when Meta Knight got all those quick rapid broken arials and they nerf Jigglypuff's wall of pain. doesn't make sense. But today when I played melee I realized they really improved the problems with characters being broken. In Brawl I'd say the broken characters to top the charts are Meta  Knight, Ike, Snake, Pit, and maybe Fox.

Quote from: tibar21 on November 14, 2008, 08:40:52 PM

Quote from: Dawei on November 14, 2008, 07:24:01 PM

Quote from: tibar21 on November 14, 2008, 06:43:08 PM
I would agree that meta knight is broken, but only because of the infinite cape and how all his arials have prioty over the other guy's moves. I learned the hard way when I attempted to spike Tollhouse's meta knight offstage with Falco.

Infinite cape is banned, so it doesn't count.

still, the ariels are a bigger deal than the infinite cape anyway. I kinda got mad when Meta Knight got all those quick rapid broken arials and they nerf Jigglypuff's wall of pain. doesn't make sense. But today when I played melee I realized they really improved the problems with characters being broken. In Brawl I'd say the broken characters to top the charts are Meta  Knight, Ike, Snake, Pit, and maybe Fox.

You added a lot of unneeded characters, so I crossed them out. And Melee is way more balanced than Brawl.

Quote from: Dawei on November 14, 2008, 10:06:17 PM

Quote from: tibar21 on November 14, 2008, 08:40:52 PM

Quote from: Dawei on November 14, 2008, 07:24:01 PM

Quote from: tibar21 on November 14, 2008, 06:43:08 PM
I would agree that meta knight is broken, but only because of the infinite cape and how all his arials have prioty over the other guy's moves. I learned the hard way when I attempted to spike Tollhouse's meta knight offstage with Falco.

Infinite cape is banned, so it doesn't count.

still, the ariels are a bigger deal than the infinite cape anyway. I kinda got mad when Meta Knight got all those quick rapid broken arials and they nerf Jigglypuff's wall of pain. doesn't make sense. But today when I played melee I realized they really improved the problems with characters being broken. In Brawl I'd say the broken characters to top the charts are Meta  Knight, Ike, Snake, Pit, and maybe Fox.

You added a lot of unneeded characters, so I crossed them out. And Melee is way more balanced than Brawl.

Actually Snake can still be considered broken, just not as much as Metaknight.

Quote from: Ridley on November 15, 2008, 11:00:29 AM

Quote from: Dawei on November 14, 2008, 10:06:17 PM

Quote from: tibar21 on November 14, 2008, 08:40:52 PM

Quote from: Dawei on November 14, 2008, 07:24:01 PM

Quote from: tibar21 on November 14, 2008, 06:43:08 PM
I would agree that meta knight is broken, but only because of the infinite cape and how all his arials have prioty over the other guy's moves. I learned the hard way when I attempted to spike Tollhouse's meta knight offstage with Falco.

Infinite cape is banned, so it doesn't count.

still, the ariels are a bigger deal than the infinite cape anyway. I kinda got mad when Meta Knight got all those quick rapid broken arials and they nerf Jigglypuff's wall of pain. doesn't make sense. But today when I played melee I realized they really improved the problems with characters being broken. In Brawl I'd say the broken characters to top the charts are Meta  Knight, Ike, Snake, Pit, and maybe Fox.

You added a lot of unneeded characters, so I crossed them out. And Melee is way more balanced than Brawl.

Actually Snake can still be considered broken, just not as much as Metaknight.

No, cause he has bad matchups. Meta knight has none.

Quote from: Dawei on November 15, 2008, 01:56:09 PM

Quote from: Ridley on November 15, 2008, 11:00:29 AM

Quote from: Dawei on November 14, 2008, 10:06:17 PM

Quote from: tibar21 on November 14, 2008, 08:40:52 PM

Quote from: Dawei on November 14, 2008, 07:24:01 PM

Quote from: tibar21 on November 14, 2008, 06:43:08 PM
I would agree that meta knight is broken, but only because of the infinite cape and how all his arials have prioty over the other guy's moves. I learned the hard way when I attempted to spike Tollhouse's meta knight offstage with Falco.

Infinite cape is banned, so it doesn't count.

still, the ariels are a bigger deal than the infinite cape anyway. I kinda got mad when Meta Knight got all those quick rapid broken arials and they nerf Jigglypuff's wall of pain. doesn't make sense. But today when I played melee I realized they really improved the problems with characters being broken. In Brawl I'd say the broken characters to top the charts are Meta  Knight, Ike, Snake, Pit, and maybe Fox.

You added a lot of unneeded characters, so I crossed them out. And Melee is way more balanced than Brawl.

Actually Snake can still be considered broken, just not as much as Metaknight.

No, cause he has bad matchups. Meta knight has none.

even though i'm not in the brawl community (and i was only in it for a short amount of time)...

I would say a "no for now".  banning him would decrease research on his metagame, which would decrease the findings of weaknesses.  if he is found to be even more broken (as in he continues to have more than a 60-40 against everyone but snake), in the long term?  yes.  but Melee's metagame jumped all over the place with different discoveries.  I see no reason why Brawl's won't too.

Quote from: Ridley on November 15, 2008, 04:57:55 PM

Quote from: Dawei on November 15, 2008, 01:56:09 PM

Quote from: Ridley on November 15, 2008, 11:00:29 AM

Quote from: Dawei on November 14, 2008, 10:06:17 PM

Quote from: tibar21 on November 14, 2008, 08:40:52 PM

Quote from: Dawei on November 14, 2008, 07:24:01 PM

Quote from: tibar21 on November 14, 2008, 06:43:08 PM
I would agree that meta knight is broken, but only because of the infinite cape and how all his arials have prioty over the other guy's moves. I learned the hard way when I attempted to spike Tollhouse's meta knight offstage with Falco.

Infinite cape is banned, so it doesn't count.

still, the ariels are a bigger deal than the infinite cape anyway. I kinda got mad when Meta Knight got all those quick rapid broken arials and they nerf Jigglypuff's wall of pain. doesn't make sense. But today when I played melee I realized they really improved the problems with characters being broken. In Brawl I'd say the broken characters to top the charts are Meta  Knight, Ike, Snake, Pit, and maybe Fox.

You added a lot of unneeded characters, so I crossed them out. And Melee is way more balanced than Brawl.

Actually Snake can still be considered broken, just not as much as Metaknight.

No, cause he has bad matchups. Meta knight has none.

He can't be considered broken AT ALL because of the fact that he has poor matchups.

Quote from: Dawei on November 16, 2008, 12:53:26 PM

Quote from: Ridley on November 15, 2008, 04:57:55 PM

Quote from: Cogs on November 15, 2008, 01:56:09 PM

Quote from: Ridley on November 15, 2008, 11:00:29 AM

Quote from: Cogs on November 14, 2008, 10:06:17 PM

Quote from: tibar21 on November 14, 2008, 08:40:52 PM

Quote from: Cogs on November 14, 2008, 07:24:01 PM

Quote from: tibar21 on November 14, 2008, 06:43:08 PM
I would agree that meta knight is broken, but only because of the infinite cape and how all his arials have prioty over the other guy's moves. I learned the hard way when I attempted to spike Tollhouse's meta knight offstage with Falco.

Infinite cape is banned, so it doesn't count.

still, the ariels are a bigger deal than the infinite cape anyway. I kinda got mad when Meta Knight got all those quick rapid broken arials and they nerf Jigglypuff's wall of pain. doesn't make sense. But today when I played melee I realized they really improved the problems with characters being broken. In Brawl I'd say the broken characters to top the charts are Meta  Knight, Ike, Snake, Pit, and maybe Fox.

You added a lot of unneeded characters, so I crossed them out. And Melee is way more balanced than Brawl.

Actually Snake can still be considered broken, just not as much as Metaknight.

No, cause he has bad matchups. Meta knight has none.

He can't be considered broken AT ALL because of the fact that he has poor matchups.

So I guess it would be considered that he merely has advantages instead of broken-ness?

Quote from: Nayrman on November 16, 2008, 01:45:18 PM

Quote from: Cogs on November 16, 2008, 12:53:26 PM

Quote from: Ridley on November 15, 2008, 04:57:55 PM

Quote from: Cogs on November 15, 2008, 01:56:09 PM

Quote from: Ridley on November 15, 2008, 11:00:29 AM

Quote from: Cogs on November 14, 2008, 10:06:17 PM

Quote from: tibar21 on November 14, 2008, 08:40:52 PM

Quote from: Cogs on November 14, 2008, 07:24:01 PM

Quote from: tibar21 on November 14, 2008, 06:43:08 PM
I would agree that meta knight is broken, but only because of the infinite cape and how all his arials have prioty over the other guy's moves. I learned the hard way when I attempted to spike Tollhouse's meta knight offstage with Falco.

Infinite cape is banned, so it doesn't count.

still, the ariels are a bigger deal than the infinite cape anyway. I kinda got mad when Meta Knight got all those quick rapid broken arials and they nerf Jigglypuff's wall of pain. doesn't make sense. But today when I played melee I realized they really improved the problems with characters being broken. In Brawl I'd say the broken characters to top the charts are Meta  Knight, Ike, Snake, Pit, and maybe Fox.

You added a lot of unneeded characters, so I crossed them out. And Melee is way more balanced than Brawl.

Actually Snake can still be considered broken, just not as much as Metaknight.

No, cause he has bad matchups. Meta knight has none.

He can't be considered broken AT ALL because of the fact that he has poor matchups.

So I guess it would be considered that he merely has advantages instead of broken-ness?

The point of a balanced roster is that there IS A CHARACTER that can have a good match-up against MK.
There isn't.
Therefore, he is broken.

Quote from: HTA on November 17, 2008, 05:22:22 PM

Quote from: Nayrman on November 16, 2008, 01:45:18 PM

Quote from: Cogs on November 16, 2008, 12:53:26 PM

Quote from: Ridley on November 15, 2008, 04:57:55 PM

Quote from: Cogs on November 15, 2008, 01:56:09 PM

Quote from: Ridley on November 15, 2008, 11:00:29 AM

Quote from: Cogs on November 14, 2008, 10:06:17 PM

Quote from: tibar21 on November 14, 2008, 08:40:52 PM

Quote from: Cogs on November 14, 2008, 07:24:01 PM

Quote from: tibar21 on November 14, 2008, 06:43:08 PM
I would agree that meta knight is broken, but only because of the infinite cape and how all his arials have prioty over the other guy's moves. I learned the hard way when I attempted to spike Tollhouse's meta knight offstage with Falco.

Infinite cape is banned, so it doesn't count.

still, the ariels are a bigger deal than the infinite cape anyway. I kinda got mad when Meta Knight got all those quick rapid broken arials and they nerf Jigglypuff's wall of pain. doesn't make sense. But today when I played melee I realized they really improved the problems with characters being broken. In Brawl I'd say the broken characters to top the charts are Meta  Knight, Ike, Snake, Pit, and maybe Fox.

You added a lot of unneeded characters, so I crossed them out. And Melee is way more balanced than Brawl.

Actually Snake can still be considered broken, just not as much as Metaknight.

No, cause he has bad matchups. Meta knight has none.

He can't be considered broken AT ALL because of the fact that he has poor matchups.

So I guess it would be considered that he merely has advantages instead of broken-ness?

The point of a balanced roster is that there IS A CHARACTER can have a good match-up against MK.
Their isn't.
Therefore, he is broken.

I was talking about Snake X_X;;
Trust me I think metaknight is hte most broken character in the history of the series

Snake isn't broken really, he does have some match-ups that will cause even the best problems...

And by now, if you play Brawl I'm almost certain you need to have a back-up plan or main multiple characters.
With Snake, this lets you adjust.
MK does not afford any versatility, there is simply no good approach...

no one's gonna agree with this, but in my experience Lucas has been a bad matchup for Meta Knight not because he's my main, but when Two players with the same skill level face eachother Lucas has the upperhand.

If metaknight uses his side B straight at a you a good Lucas player could time their side smash just right so that he hits Meta Knight like a baseball pitch.

Also if Lucas got knocked up way in the air off the stage like at Final Dest, chances are the Meta Knight would jump off the stage to hit Lucas  with a side ariel. Lucas could easily counter this by fast falling so he got below Meta Knight and then hit himself with the thunder in Meta Knight's direction(or if Meta Knight was too far from the stage just have Lucas get on the stage. after Lucas's boost from hitting himself from the thunder ends he still can go a long way in a side direction)
And if you don't want to take that approach just use Lucas's side ariel to clash with Meta Knight in the air. Lucas has a very powerful side arial with slightly more range than that of Meta Knight's.

And when Meta Knight  uses his tornado Lucas could give him a quick PK freeze. After the PK freeze is released it has a very wide range. And even if the PK freeze doesn't hit Meta Knight it probably will still make him retraet his attack which might leave him vulnarable to a PK fire, a running A attack, or maybe even another PK freeze.

The bottom line is that Meta Knigh's big weakness I found were projectiles that you can control.
Characters that would probably give Meta Knight a good matchup would be Lucas, Ness, or Zelda. No one else would come to mind though.

Lol.

Lucas + Ness = Failure.
Infinite Grab Release would destroy them (although I don't remember if MK can do it... I pretty sure everyone can though.)

MK out prioritizes almost all of their moves.
PK freeze more or less leaves you open, and an experienced MK will not fall for it.
Ever.

Playing off the edge with MK is stupid.
Its basically the number one "don't try this" on the MK match-up list. He dominates the air, its just not possible.
And really, the range is not the problem. He is just too fast and too agile for it too work

Snake or Game and Watch are your best bets, strong ground game is key.
Plus G & W has a couple tricks in the air to catch MK off guard, not enough to make it a good match-up but enough to give you a chance.

Quote from: HTA on November 17, 2008, 06:28:15 PM
Lol.

Lucas + Ness = Failure.
Infinite Grab Release would destroy them (although I don't remember if MK can do it... I pretty sure everyone can though.)

MK out prioritizes almost all of their moves.
PK freeze more or less leaves you open, and an experienced MK will not fall for it.
Ever.

Playing off the edge with MK is stupid.
Its basically the number one "don't try this" on the MK match-up list. He dominates the air, its just not possible.
And really, the range is not the problem. He is just too fast and too agile for it too work

Snake or Game and Watch are your best bets, strong ground game is key.
Plus G & W has a couple tricks in the air to catch MK off guard, not enough to make it a good match-up but enough to give you a chance.

I like to play in the air with Rob. You are able to fly farther than he is if played right.

Quote from: HTA on November 17, 2008, 06:28:15 PM
Lol.

Lucas + Ness = Failure.
Infinite Grab Release would destroy them (although I don't remember if MK can do it... I pretty sure everyone can though.)

MK out prioritizes almost all of their moves.
PK freeze more or less leaves you open, and an experienced MK will not fall for it.
Ever.

Playing off the edge with MK is stupid.
Its basically the number one "don't try this" on the MK match-up list. He dominates the air, its just not possible.
And really, the range is not the problem. He is just too fast and too agile for it too work

Snake or Game and Watch are your best bets, strong ground game is key.
Plus G & W has a couple tricks in the air to catch MK off guard, not enough to make it a good match-up but enough to give you a chance.

Not GW. M2k is too good. (http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=198110)

Tibar, that has to be one of the funniest posts I have ever read. Everything you said about the mk doing is... hilarious. Please, get wifi. Do it.

I happen to agree with HTA and Dave on This point alone.

An Ace (best MK user) will Always tell  what kind of attacks the other person may do.
Either to recover Or to Counter.

an Ace MK user knows ALL the other characters strengths and weaknesses.

For example...

Lucas, depending on where he is and what he does... The MK user can Always adjust and "ANTICIPATE" what Lucas Could do there for countering it.

When Lucas uses his "PK Thunder" to recover from off the stage, sure, Lucas is powerful as he moves, but once that momentum is done, Lucas is vulnerable, and thats when MK can strike.

As I said, Anticipation and knowing the oppenents recoveries/vulnerabilities etc is Key.
Any good Smasher would/should know this.

Whether you  main as a lot of characters or not, every recovery has a weakness to a point where it can be countered.

All your sayings about how Lucas can counter MK, well that may be true for the 1st few tries when the match 1st starts, but an Ace MK user Will "NOT" make the same mistakes 2-3 times, trust me.
-_-


It may work out in Lucas favor, but as the match progresses, an Ace MK user will adjust and figure out the other persons play style and more then likely dominate, seeing as MK's attributes honestly are better then anybody elses....

Which Sucks!
:(

To be fair, an ace for any character will do all of that to their fullest.

Quote from: mackormoses on November 18, 2008, 11:27:32 PM
To be fair, an ace for any character will do all of that to their fullest.

Even still, MK seems/tends to always have the advantage.

He is a master of air attacks, so before the other character can recover, or After that character recovers he can strike.

I hope it sounds like I'm not complaining.

Quote from: Dawei on November 18, 2008, 08:15:45 PM

Quote from: HTA on November 17, 2008, 06:28:15 PM
Lol.

Lucas + Ness = Failure.
Infinite Grab Release would destroy them (although I don't remember if MK can do it... I pretty sure everyone can though.)

MK out prioritizes almost all of their moves.
PK freeze more or less leaves you open, and an experienced MK will not fall for it.
Ever.

Playing off the edge with MK is stupid.
Its basically the number one "don't try this" on the MK match-up list. He dominates the air, its just not possible.
And really, the range is not the problem. He is just too fast and too agile for it too work

Snake or Game and Watch are your best bets, strong ground game is key.
Plus G & W has a couple tricks in the air to catch MK off guard, not enough to make it a good match-up but enough to give you a chance.

Not GW. M2k is too good. (http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=198110)

Tibar, that has to be one of the funniest posts I have ever read. Everything you said about the mk doing is... hilarious. Please, get wifi. Do it.

i'm not gonna argue, but you would have to see my play with Lucas against Tollhouse's Meta Knight to understand what I mean.

No we don't seeing as we are talking about pro level play here.  ::)

Quote from: tibar21 on November 19, 2008, 07:21:57 PM

Quote from: Dawei on November 18, 2008, 08:15:45 PM

Quote from: HTA on November 17, 2008, 06:28:15 PM
Lol.

Lucas + Ness = Failure.
Infinite Grab Release would destroy them (although I don't remember if MK can do it... I pretty sure everyone can though.)

MK out prioritizes almost all of their moves.
PK freeze more or less leaves you open, and an experienced MK will not fall for it.
Ever.

Playing off the edge with MK is stupid.
Its basically the number one "don't try this" on the MK match-up list. He dominates the air, its just not possible.
And really, the range is not the problem. He is just too fast and too agile for it too work

Snake or Game and Watch are your best bets, strong ground game is key.
Plus G & W has a couple tricks in the air to catch MK off guard, not enough to make it a good match-up but enough to give you a chance.

Not GW. M2k is too good. (http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=198110)

Tibar, that has to be one of the funniest posts I have ever read. Everything you said about the mk doing is... hilarious. Please, get wifi. Do it.

i'm not gonna argue, but you would have to see my play with Lucas against Tollhouse's Meta Knight to understand what I mean.

I'm very willing to get I have a better MK than tollhouse. What you are describing wouldn't work on a good mk.

Well, yeah, Star. He has what, at worst a 55% win spread?

Quote from: mackormoses on November 19, 2008, 09:16:11 PM
Well, yeah, Star. He has what, at worst a 55% win spread?

Probably so.

MK's Up B attack can KO anybody at that percentage just about.

Who has the best MK on This board?

:O

Quote from: StarWindWizard7 on November 19, 2008, 09:33:36 PM

Quote from: mackormoses on November 19, 2008, 09:16:11 PM
Well, yeah, Star. He has what, at worst a 55% win spread?

Probably so.

MK's Up B attack can KO anybody at that percentage just about.

Who has the best MK on This board?

:O

It would be between Playat and Dawei, I'm guessing.

Quote from: StarWindWizard7 on November 19, 2008, 09:33:36 PM

Quote from: mackormoses on November 19, 2008, 09:16:11 PM
Well, yeah, Star. He has what, at worst a 55% win spread?

Probably so.

MK's Up B attack can KO anybody at that percentage just about.

Who has the best MK on This board?

:O

I think he has won 55% of all tourneys, but I'm probably misinterpreting things.
Technically, the best is Itachi, he is just almost completely inactive.

Quote from: Dawei on November 20, 2008, 02:50:12 PM

Quote from: StarWindWizard7 on November 19, 2008, 09:33:36 PM

Quote from: mackormoses on November 19, 2008, 09:16:11 PM
Well, yeah, Star. He has what, at worst a 55% win spread?

Probably so.

MK's Up B attack can KO anybody at that percentage just about.

Who has the best MK on This board?

:O

I think he has won 55% of all tourneys, but I'm probably misinterpreting things.
Technically, the best is Itachi, he is just almost completely inactive.

Where does he go now?  Is he inactive everywhere or just here?

Quote from: darklink140 on November 20, 2008, 05:44:02 PM

Quote from: Dawei on November 20, 2008, 02:50:12 PM

Quote from: StarWindWizard7 on November 19, 2008, 09:33:36 PM

Quote from: mackormoses on November 19, 2008, 09:16:11 PM
Well, yeah, Star. He has what, at worst a 55% win spread?

Probably so.

MK's Up B attack can KO anybody at that percentage just about.

Who has the best MK on This board?

:O

I think he has won 55% of all tourneys, but I'm probably misinterpreting things.
Technically, the best is Itachi, he is just almost completely inactive.

Where does he go now?  Is he inactive everywhere or just here?

He's always on ns2. He actually was there originally, and then I bugged him enough to drop by here a few times.

Pft, Dave using MK?

What a scrub...  :|

Quote from: HTA on November 20, 2008, 07:28:21 PM
Pft, Dave using MK?

What a scrub...  :|

O SNAP! :O

I smell a Challenge!

Itachi?
Never heard of him......

Normal members I meant were between:
Playat, Dave, and Darklink140.

I don't know who else uses MK, so I'm just saying these 3.

Who has the best MK?
>_<

Quote from: StarWindWizard7 on November 20, 2008, 08:28:44 PM

Quote from: HTA on November 20, 2008, 07:28:21 PM
Pft, Dave using MK?

What a scrub...  :|

O SNAP! :O

I smell a Challenge!

Itachi?
Never heard of him......

Normal members I meant were between:
Playat, Dave, and Darklink140.

I don't know who else uses MK, so I'm just saying these 3.

Who has the best MK?
>_<

Well, there could be someone better than a pro around the world, who knows.

Quote from: wiiboychris on November 20, 2008, 08:38:16 PM

Quote from: StarWindWizard7 on November 20, 2008, 08:28:44 PM

Quote from: HTA on November 20, 2008, 07:28:21 PM
Pft, Dave using MK?

What a scrub...  :|

O SNAP! :O

I smell a Challenge!

Itachi?
Never heard of him......

Normal members I meant were between:
Playat, Dave, and Darklink140.

I don't know who else uses MK, so I'm just saying these 3.

Who has the best MK?
>_<

Well, there could be someone better than a pro around the world, who knows.

English please.

Quote from: StarWindWizard7 on November 20, 2008, 08:28:44 PM

Quote from: HTA on November 20, 2008, 07:28:21 PM
Pft, Dave using MK?

What a scrub...  :|

O SNAP! :O

I smell a Challenge!

Itachi?
Never heard of him......

Normal members I meant were between:
Playat, Dave, and Darklink140.

I don't know who else uses MK, so I'm just saying these 3.

Who has the best MK?
>_<

DaftPink (Wiigamer) also plays him.

*Gives Yoshi Bullcrap*

Hai guys  ;)  So I need to play the people here again.

MK is really really tough when the person is serious, and even with a barely even matchup I have to either be better than the MK user in general or just surprise him with the matchup and hope he has poor matchup experience.  He's almost beatable, but you have to actually be better than the MK user.

Best MK?
Me... obviously

I think Metaknight is everybody's secret main character ;) ;)

Banning a character just because he's hard to beat?  To me, that just screams out, "Sore loser!"  Being beat by a Meta Knight user and then trying to argue that it's cheap to use Meta Knight is just ridiculous.  I thought most people were mature enough to fix their problems instead of making excuses.  If you hacked the game to get a secret character that no one else could use, that's a different story.  If Nintendo put him in the game, everyone has an equal chance to use him and/or master him.  Instead of trying to get Meta Knight banned, try practicing so you can defeat Meta Knight users when the time comes to do so.

Quote from: shadowmarioguy on November 24, 2008, 03:41:53 PM
Banning a character just because he's hard to beat?  To me, that just screams out, "Sore loser!"  Being beat by a Meta Knight user and then trying to argue that it's cheap to use Meta Knight is just ridiculous.  I thought most people were mature enough to fix their problems instead of making excuses.  If you hacked the game to get a secret character that no one else could use, that's a different story.  If Nintendo put him in the game, everyone has an equal chance to use him and/or master him.  Instead of trying to get Meta Knight banned, try practicing so you can defeat Meta Knight users when the time comes to do so.

it's not our fault the game is horribly unbalanced. X_X;;

Quote from: Nayrman on November 24, 2008, 06:36:21 PM

Quote from: shadowmarioguy on November 24, 2008, 03:41:53 PM
Banning a character just because he's hard to beat?  To me, that just screams out, "Sore loser!"  Being beat by a Meta Knight user and then trying to argue that it's cheap to use Meta Knight is just ridiculous.  I thought most people were mature enough to fix their problems instead of making excuses.  If you hacked the game to get a secret character that no one else could use, that's a different story.  If Nintendo put him in the game, everyone has an equal chance to use him and/or master him.  Instead of trying to get Meta Knight banned, try practicing so you can defeat Meta Knight users when the time comes to do so.

it's not our fault the game is horribly unbalanced. X_X;;

Horribly unbalanced?

Quote from: PLAYAT on November 24, 2008, 08:24:51 PM

Quote from: Nayrman on November 24, 2008, 06:36:21 PM

Quote from: shadowmarioguy on November 24, 2008, 03:41:53 PM
Banning a character just because he's hard to beat?  To me, that just screams out, "Sore loser!"  Being beat by a Meta Knight user and then trying to argue that it's cheap to use Meta Knight is just ridiculous.  I thought most people were mature enough to fix their problems instead of making excuses.  If you hacked the game to get a secret character that no one else could use, that's a different story.  If Nintendo put him in the game, everyone has an equal chance to use him and/or master him.  Instead of trying to get Meta Knight banned, try practicing so you can defeat Meta Knight users when the time comes to do so.

it's not our fault the game is horribly unbalanced. X_X;;

Horribly unbalanced?

Nayr, don't even try to explain. You'll be wasting your time.

I wonder how he does in 'Melee 2.0"
I say yes, but we should wait a little longer, I guess.  :|

Please excuse the double post, but the SBR  has released their official view on this.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=206925

Quote from: Marth Xero on November 26, 2008, 09:26:12 AM
Please xcuse the douhble post, but the SBR  has releases their official view on this.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=206925

So no official ban yet it's open to tournament leaders on wether or not to ban him if they feel it's a good idea.
Fair enough I suppose.

Quote from: Dawei on November 24, 2008, 09:01:36 PM

Quote from: PLAYAT on November 24, 2008, 08:24:51 PM

Quote from: Nayrman on November 24, 2008, 06:36:21 PM

Quote from: shadowmarioguy on November 24, 2008, 03:41:53 PM
Banning a character just because he's hard to beat?  To me, that just screams out, "Sore loser!"  Being beat by a Meta Knight user and then trying to argue that it's cheap to use Meta Knight is just ridiculous.  I thought most people were mature enough to fix their problems instead of making excuses.  If you hacked the game to get a secret character that no one else could use, that's a different story.  If Nintendo put him in the game, everyone has an equal chance to use him and/or master him.  Instead of trying to get Meta Knight banned, try practicing so you can defeat Meta Knight users when the time comes to do so.

it's not our fault the game is horribly unbalanced. X_X;;

Horribly unbalanced?

Nayr, don't even try to explain. You'll be wasting your time.

If you're on nsider all the time you might as well.  Kicking out meta would just make things easier.  People who say a character is cheap or broken just make excuses like that when they lose.  they probably wouldn't call meta cheap if they beat him, i don't know.  I really don't care.  People who go beserk because they said the character was cheap are just losers.  Horribly unbalanced?  Ha, not much has changed since melee.  brawl's got less speed in combat than melee.  everybody forget how cheap melee was. 

Quick question, what exactly makes Meta-Knight so cheap? This is serious because I've played against him a lot of times and I don't see anything cheap about him.

Quote from: EnergyKnight on November 26, 2008, 11:46:24 AM
Quick question, what exactly makes Meta-Knight so cheap? This is serious because I've played against him a lot of times and I don't see anything cheap about him.

Glad you asked. there are stupid people who abuse him like in these videos. spamming should die.  takes all the fun away.  people who spam to win i think lack character and should not even bother playing.  anybody can do it so why should spamming make them good players?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDf1oK8iVCo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEQHqLa6xnw

That's bad but not bad enough to ban him. I've seen a couple of characters do infinate grabs. And just watch out for his Tornado.

Quote from: EnergyKnight on November 26, 2008, 12:18:12 PM
That's bad but not bad enough to ban him. I've seen a couple of characters do infinate grabs. And just watch out for his Tornado.

Do you play good MKs? If you did, you'd know how frustrating it is...

Quote from: Red on November 26, 2008, 12:21:38 PM

Quote from: EnergyKnight on November 26, 2008, 12:18:12 PM
That's bad but not bad enough to ban him. I've seen a couple of characters do infinate grabs. And just watch out for his Tornado.

Do you play good MKs? If you did, you'd know how frustrating it is...

True, but people are making it a bigger deal than it is.  Banning meta knight is just stupid

Fricken Scrubs.
Listen children, here's how it goes down.

MK has priority over almost all aerial moves.
MK can spam his tornado to victory if he wanted to.
Up-B can kill at insanely low percentages.
Recovery is godlike.
He is winning almost every tournament, even against some of the world's best players like Futile and Dook (don't quote me on the Dook part).
He can be picked up by anyone, making the idea of working with a character to get good obsolete.

I could go on but the audacity of your above statements has astounded me.

And does no one (of the 3 above) remember that he ALREADY had an advanced technique banned from play?
D.I.C.K was banned from competitive play because it makes MK INVINCIBLE.
It is impossible to hit him, impossible to tell where he is, and a good MK can stall out a match with it if he so desires.

Forget all of your Brawls with your friends. Few here can actually testify to have played a world class smasher, and if they had then it would become apparent that MK is indeed broken.

And Tollhouse, you are a massive failure.  :|
Melee > Brawl in both fairness and in roster balance. (Not to mention in gameplay. :P)

Quote from: HTA on November 26, 2008, 01:41:54 PM
Fricken Scrubs.
Listen children, here's how it goes down.

MK has priority over almost all aerial moves.
MK can spam his tornado to victory if he wanted to.
Up-B can kill at insanely low percentages.
Recovery is godlike.
He is winning almost every tournament, even against some of the world's best players like Futile and Dook (don't quote me on the Dook part).
He can be picked up by anyone, making the idea of working with a character to get good obsolete.

I could go on but the audacity of your above statements has astounded me.

And does no one (of the 3 above) remember that he ALREADY had an advanced technique banned from play?
D.I.C.K was banned from competitive play because it makes MK INVINCIBLE.
It is impossible to hit him, impossible to tell where he is, and a good MK can stall out a match with it if he so desires.

Forget all of your Brawls with your friends. Few here can actually testify to have played a world class smasher, and if they had then it would become apparent that MK is indeed broken.

And Tollhouse, you are a massive failure.  :|
Melee > Brawl in both fairness and in roster balance. (Not to mention in gameplay. :P)

at least the top five in that game had a decent shot of beating eachother.
Friendly matches are fine and all, but I've played a near pro-level smasher who uses Metaknight (He's a pal of mine).
I've only beaten him once, with Snake of course. Sad part is, he picked up Metaknight the DAY before a tournament, and came in second....only to a Metaknight player who had used him longer. Just illustrating the point.

No, but people used to want to do that with Peach in SMBM :/

He has a banned move? I didn't even know that. I still don't think that he should be banned.

Your right I've never fought a full fledged Meta user. But I do believe that every character is beatable no matter how cheap the character is. They are pro for a reason. They need to understand the opponents moves and strategies for that character. If it's Meta-Knight you should expect the Tornado and Grabbing so you should get ready for it and have a strategy to counter it.

Don't get so angry at other people opinions and don't call others scrubs just because of a difference in thoughts. It's very.... childlike. In the nicest way I can put it.


P.S. Most of his moves are easy to block. Even when he is in Tornado, he can be hit. His air is harder, but still posible. You just have to use your arsenal.

Quote from: EnergyKnight on November 26, 2008, 02:33:24 PM
He has a banned move? I didn't even know that. I still don't think that he should be banned.

Your right I've never fought a full fledged Meta user. But I do believe that every character is beatable no matter how cheap the character is. They are pro for a reason. They need to understand the opponents moves and strategies for that character. If it's Meta-Knight you should expect the Tornado and Grabbing so you should get ready for it and have a strategy to counter it.

Don't get so angry at other people opinions and don't call others scrubs just because of a difference in thoughts. It's very.... childlike. In the nicest way I can put it.


P.S. Most of his moves are easy to block. Even when he is in Tornado, he can be hit. His air is harder, but still posible. You just have to use your arsenal.

You can't do anything agains the tornado though because the second you take away your shield you're screwed...
And his banned move has been around for a while now.... X_X;;

Quote from: Nayrman on November 26, 2008, 02:39:51 PM

Quote from: EnergyKnight on November 26, 2008, 02:33:24 PM
He has a banned move? I didn't even know that. I still don't think that he should be banned.

Your right I've never fought a full fledged Meta user. But I do believe that every character is beatable no matter how cheap the character is. They are pro for a reason. They need to understand the opponents moves and strategies for that character. If it's Meta-Knight you should expect the Tornado and Grabbing so you should get ready for it and have a strategy to counter it.

Don't get so angry at other people opinions and don't call others scrubs just because of a difference in thoughts. It's very.... childlike. In the nicest way I can put it.


P.S. Most of his moves are easy to block. Even when he is in Tornado, he can be hit. His air is harder, but still posible. You just have to use your arsenal.

You can't do anything agains the tornado though because the second you take away your shield you're screwed...
And his banned move has been around for a while now.... X_X;;

Yeah. I kinda fail at that stuff. I don't look at all the pro stuff because I'm no where close to their level and I know it. They are to good. But I have hit Meta-Knight, and killed him, with Kirby's Hammer move through the Tornado. Just aim towards the top. I know that sounds wierd seeing as the top is the biggest but it works.

Quote from: EnergyKnight on November 26, 2008, 02:33:24 PM
He has a banned move? I didn't even know that. I still don't think that he should be banned.

Your right I've never fought a full fledged Meta user. But I do believe that every character is beatable no matter how cheap the character is. They are pro for a reason. They need to understand the opponents moves and strategies for that character. If it's Meta-Knight you should expect the Tornado and Grabbing so you should get ready for it and have a strategy to counter it.

Don't get so angry at other people opinions and don't call others scrubs just because of a difference in thoughts. It's very.... childlike. In the nicest way I can put it.


P.S. Most of his moves are easy to block. Even when he is in Tornado, he can be hit. His air is harder, but still posible. You just have to use your arsenal.

His opinions are wrong.
Quite frankly, so are yours.

You can say an opinion is wrong, but without a fact all you are doing is being a straight-up jerk.


I really don't want to argue about this seeing as I don't even really have a choose in the matter so sorry that you can't see it from my angle.

Quote from: EnergyKnight on November 26, 2008, 02:54:30 PM
You can say an opinion is wrong, but without a fact all you are doing is being a straight-up jerk.


I really don't want to argue about this seeing as I don't even really have a choose in the matter so sorry that you can't see it from my angle.

Fact: MK is overpowered in the hands of a pro.
Fact: Pros have fought for his banning
Fact: The tactics you guys describe, and your experiences with the game, mean nil.

Have a nice day then.  :)

The only move I have hit him with while he was tornadoing was the laser and that is for obvious reasons. Also the pros are the ones who are losing money because they get beat by an MK user who just picked him up. Even MK mains at the smashboards say he is unfair. Anyway they are just banning him from tournaments so it won't even affect the majority of us here.

MK has no bad matchups. That means, he is always the dominant pick in double blind matches. No matter who they choose, you are at an advantage. There goes 1/3 matches needed to win the set.
Most people have an alternate for tourney play for the sake of counter picks. MK mains don't need to worry about one since he has the advantage and you are better off just sticking with mk.
Next, we bring you a special announcement.

NO ONE SAYS MK IS FUCKING UNBEATABLE
He's perfectly beatable. It's just such an uphill battle that it's almost futile to even try cause you have to be darn good in the matchup with almost any character to win.
Best MK vs best Lucario (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwo39ulIYfQ)
Spamming sucks ass. Anyone that complains about mk spamming should gtfo, it's no reason to ban him. That is a vid of mk at his [current] top level, and it involves raping. HTA covered most of what makes mk so amazing, but if you still have complaints, I can go over them.

Quote from: HTA on November 26, 2008, 01:41:54 PM
Fricken Scrubs.
Listen children, here's how it goes down.

MK has priority over almost all aerial moves.
MK can spam his tornado to victory if he wanted to.
Up-B can kill at insanely low percentages.
Recovery is godlike.
He is winning almost every tournament, even against some of the world's best players like Futile and Dook (don't quote me on the Dook part).
He can be picked up by anyone, making the idea of working with a character to get good obsolete.

I could go on but the audacity of your above statements has astounded me.

And does no one (of the 3 above) remember that he ALREADY had an advanced technique banned from play?
D.I.C.K was banned from competitive play because it makes MK INVINCIBLE.
It is impossible to hit him, impossible to tell where he is, and a good MK can stall out a match with it if he so desires.

Forget all of your Brawls with your friends. Few here can actually testify to have played a world class smasher, and if they had then it would become apparent that MK is indeed broken.

And Tollhouse, I am a massive failure.  :|
Melee > Brawl in both fairness and in roster balance. (Not to mention in gameplay. :P)

Are you kidding it's the slowed down speed in brawl that makes it more fair than melee.  why do you think sakurai designed brawl more for beginners than in melee.  If you're gonna call me a massive failure why don't you support your opinion by explaining your logic instead of giving a poor inequality.   

The speed in melee made it for fun and exciting. There wasn't anything unfair about it.

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on November 26, 2008, 04:29:02 PM

Quote from: HTA on November 26, 2008, 01:41:54 PM
Fricken Scrubs.
Listen children, here's how it goes down.

MK has priority over almost all aerial moves.
MK can spam his tornado to victory if he wanted to.
Up-B can kill at insanely low percentages.
Recovery is godlike.
He is winning almost every tournament, even against some of the world's best players like Futile and Dook (don't quote me on the Dook part).
He can be picked up by anyone, making the idea of working with a character to get good obsolete.

I could go on but the audacity of your above statements has astounded me.

And does no one (of the 3 above) remember that he ALREADY had an advanced technique banned from play?
D.I.C.K was banned from competitive play because it makes MK INVINCIBLE.
It is impossible to hit him, impossible to tell where he is, and a good MK can stall out a match with it if he so desires.

Forget all of your Brawls with your friends. Few here can actually testify to have played a world class smasher, and if they had then it would become apparent that MK is indeed broken.

And Tollhouse, I am a massive failure.  :|
Melee > Brawl in both fairness and in roster balance. (Not to mention in gameplay. :P)

Are you kidding it's the slowed down speed in brawl that makes it more fair than melee.  why do you think sakurai designed brawl more for beginners than in melee.  If you're gonna call me a massive failure why don't you support your opinion by explaining your logic instead of giving a poor inequality.   

the "Made it more for beginners" automatically makes this statement fail. I know Nintendo loves to intercourse  over the hardcore by trying to make everything "accessable" but this game is DESIGNED for hardcore. Trying to simplify/correct a formula that was perfectly fine to begin with is the main problem. (why change the dodge wavedashing didn't break the game or anything)
Boy I'm in a ranty mood today....

Quote from: EnergyKnight on November 26, 2008, 02:46:21 PM

Quote from: Nayrman on November 26, 2008, 02:39:51 PM

Quote from: EnergyKnight on November 26, 2008, 02:33:24 PM
He has a banned move? I didn't even know that. I still don't think that he should be banned.

Your right I've never fought a full fledged Meta user. But I do believe that every character is beatable no matter how cheap the character is. They are pro for a reason. They need to understand the opponents moves and strategies for that character. If it's Meta-Knight you should expect the Tornado and Grabbing so you should get ready for it and have a strategy to counter it.

Don't get so angry at other people opinions and don't call others scrubs just because of a difference in thoughts. It's very.... childlike. In the nicest way I can put it.


P.S. Most of his moves are easy to block. Even when he is in Tornado, he can be hit. His air is harder, but still posible. You just have to use your arsenal.

You can't do anything agains the tornado though because the second you take away your shield you're screwed...
And his banned move has been around for a while now.... X_X;;

Yeah. I kinda fail at that stuff. I don't look at all the pro stuff because I'm no where close to their level and I know it. They are to good. But I have hit Meta-Knight, and killed him, with Kirby's Hammer move through the Tornado. Just aim towards the top. I know that sounds wierd seeing as the top is the biggest but it works.

Yeah, but 70 times out of 100, MK will beat Kirby. That's ignoring his banned move, among other things.

Honestly, if any of you people (wont say any names), even fought a Pro level MK, do you think
that your still gonna feel that he's that.........

Ugh!
............
*sighs*

MK, shouldn't be ban'd. He really shouldn't.... it's just that fighting him is extremely difficult.
Especially if Pro Smashers have problems OR Lose to him.
What makes you think that you can beat him any easier?

The spamming.........well, I remember saying this.

No matter how you win, as long AS you win thats the most important thing.
Whether it be spamming arrows, or spamming MK's Tornadoes for example, if it gets you to the top
then so be it.
(I haven't even noticed it, but didn't Sakurai said that if you keep doing the same moves over and over again
after 1 another decreases the damage?) I guess it doesn't matter, the Impact is still there.

Thing is, if you are at a tournament and you Spammed your way to win...
lol I can imagine all those people give you such the dirty look/evil eye (not to mention some harsh words) :D
Thing is, would/could you spam your way to victory, or would you try to mix your attacks up?

Anyway, regardless.
What HTA, Nary, and Dave say are 100% Correct.
IMO

After all the MK "pro's" that I've seen, they all basically play the same... I think that all Metaknight players can be predictable (somewhat)... But don't take my word on it, just a guess :| :|

And no, Metaknight shouldn't be banned... He's not unbeatable (I don't need to say why... Just look at the 9 billion posts above me ;) ) and he's a cute puffball knight :3 :3

Seems people in the whole world have forgotten about items totally, why can't we have matches with items? It adds the fun to that and...tiers would pretty much be useless then.

Because items are random and destroy anything competitive.

Quote from: Dawei on November 27, 2008, 11:11:57 AM
Because items are random and destroy anything competitive.

So...what could happen if you only set Mr. Saturns? :D

Quote from: wiiboychris on November 27, 2008, 11:35:41 AM

Quote from: Cogs on November 27, 2008, 11:11:57 AM
Because items are random and destroy anything competitive.

So...what could happen if you only set Mr. Saturns? :D

No one would use them so what would be the point of setting them?
0 - point is here






                                                                                                                0- you are here

Quote from: Nayrman on November 27, 2008, 11:45:32 AM

Quote from: wiiboychris on November 27, 2008, 11:35:41 AM

Quote from: Cogs on November 27, 2008, 11:11:57 AM
Because items are random and destroy anything competitive.

So...what could happen if you only set Mr. Saturns? :D

No one would use them so what would be the point of setting them?
0 - point is here






                                                                                                                0- you are here

OBJECTION!

"Slams hands into the desk."

Mr. Saturns could be projectile blockers, such as Samus' Charged Shot or Link's Bombs!

Quote from: wiiboychris on November 27, 2008, 01:34:39 PM

Quote from: Nayrman on November 27, 2008, 11:45:32 AM

Quote from: wiiboychris on November 27, 2008, 11:35:41 AM

Quote from: Cogs on November 27, 2008, 11:11:57 AM
Because items are random and destroy anything competitive.

So...what could happen if you only set Mr. Saturns? :D

No one would use them so what would be the point of setting them?
0 - point is here






                                                                                                                0- you are here

OBJECTION!

"Slams hands into the desk."

Mr. Saturns could be projectile blockers, such as Samus' Charged Shot or Link's Bombs!

All the more reason to not use items...

I've scanned through a few of the previous posts and am surprised as to what most of you said.
But still, everyone has they're own opinions.

N/E ways, I think that the banning of other characters is pretty retarded and unnecessary.
If they feel the need to have to go through with that, then they might as well not hold these tournaments at all.

I never really understand why people choose to remove a certain character from play, based on just stats.
First they say that Ike is the most broken, and should be removed from tourneys, and now they're going on Meta Knight saying he shouldn't have the privilege of being in a tourney.

And for them to say that he's unbeatable is blasphemy.

Diddy can beat MK badly. (Even without mind games)
Snake can beat MK. (Not to well with aerials though)
Even Zelda, a defensive type, can beat MK.

There's more but there's no need for me to post them.

So, should MK be banned?
It all varies based on your own opinions.

No one EVER said Ike was broken. Only retarded scrubs who played with items on high on stages like big blue thought that. Everyone who ever went to tourneys sat there and lol'ing at the people who thought Ike was good.

Quote from: Dawei on November 30, 2008, 07:54:08 PM
No one EVER said Ike was broken. Only retarded scrubs who played with items on high on stages like big blue thought that. Everyone who ever went to tourneys sat there and lol'ing at the people who thought Ike was good.

Yeah pretty much. B-over and Smashed their way to a lose.

Quote from: SSBBRAWLIN on November 29, 2008, 02:41:33 PM
I've scanned through a few of the previous posts and am surprised as to what most of you said.
But still, everyone has they're own opinions.

N/E ways, I think that the banning of other characters is pretty retarded and unnecessary.
If they feel the need to have to go through with that, then they might as well not hold these tournaments at all.

I never really understand why people choose to remove a certain character from play, based on just stats.
First they say that Ike is the most broken, and should be removed from tourneys, and now they're going on Meta Knight saying he shouldn't have the privilege of being in a tourney.

And for them to say that he's unbeatable is blasphemy.

Diddy can beat MK badly. (Even without mind games)
Snake can beat MK. (Not to well with aerials though)
Even Zelda, a defensive type, can beat MK.

There's more but there's no need for me to post them.

So, should MK be banned?
It all varies based on your own opinions.

Diddy?Zelda? Oh, I guess you're talking
about crappy Level9 CPU's.

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on November 26, 2008, 04:29:02 PM

Quote from: HTA on November 26, 2008, 01:41:54 PM

Are you kidding it's the slowed down speed in brawl that makes it more fair than melee.  why do you think sakurai designed brawl more for beginners than in melee.  If you're gonna call me a massive failure why don't you support your opinion by explaining your logic instead of giving a poor inequality.   

How does Speed = Fair then?
Slowing something down doesn't make it more fair.... not even a little. D:

Quote from: JNeedForSpeed2014 on November 30, 2008, 08:28:20 PM

Quote from: SSBBRAWLIN on November 29, 2008, 02:41:33 PM
I've scanned through a few of the previous posts and am surprised as to what most of you said.
But still, everyone has they're own opinions.

N/E ways, I think that the banning of other characters is pretty retarded and unnecessary.
If they feel the need to have to go through with that, then they might as well not hold these tournaments at all.

I never really understand why people choose to remove a certain character from play, based on just stats.
First they say that Ike is the most broken, and should be removed from tourneys, and now they're going on Meta Knight saying he shouldn't have the privilege of being in a tourney.

And for them to say that he's unbeatable is blasphemy.

Diddy can beat MK badly. (Even without mind games)
Snake can beat MK. (Not to well with aerials though)
Even Zelda, a defensive type, can beat MK.

There's more but there's no need for me to post them.

So, should MK be banned?
It all varies based on your own opinions.

Diddy?Zelda? Oh, I guess you're talking
about crappy Level9 CPU's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-w3LzYlw5bU&feature=related
:|

M2k has no diddy experience. Even so, I'm willing to bet brawlin's reason had nothing to do with that vid, or m2k's vid vs Ninjalink.

Quote from: HTA on December 01, 2008, 03:33:04 PM

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on November 26, 2008, 04:29:02 PM

Quote from: HTA on November 26, 2008, 01:41:54 PM

Are you kidding it's the slowed down speed in brawl that makes it more fair than melee.  why do you think sakurai designed brawl more for beginners than in melee.  If you're gonna call me a massive failure why don't you support your opinion by explaining your logic instead of giving a poor inequality.   

How does Speed = Fair then?
Slowing something down doesn't make it more fair.... not even a little. D:

Holy crap.  I give up.  There is no point in explaining.  I just don't give a poop

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on December 05, 2008, 07:51:41 PM

Quote from: HTA on December 01, 2008, 03:33:04 PM

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on November 26, 2008, 04:29:02 PM

Quote from: HTA on November 26, 2008, 01:41:54 PM

Are you kidding it's the slowed down speed in brawl that makes it more fair than melee.  why do you think sakurai designed brawl more for beginners than in melee.  If you're gonna call me a massive failure why don't you support your opinion by explaining your logic instead of giving a poor inequality.   

How does Speed = Fair then?
Slowing something down doesn't make it more fair.... not even a little. D:

Holy crap.  I give up.  There is no point in explaining.  I just don't give a poop

No, please, explain. Since I have no idea how the hell slowing it down makes it more fair.

Quote from: Dawei on December 05, 2008, 09:34:53 PM

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on December 05, 2008, 07:51:41 PM

Quote from: HTA on December 01, 2008, 03:33:04 PM

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on November 26, 2008, 04:29:02 PM

Quote from: HTA on November 26, 2008, 01:41:54 PM

Are you kidding it's the slowed down speed in brawl that makes it more fair than melee.  why do you think sakurai designed brawl more for beginners than in melee.  If you're gonna call me a massive failure why don't you support your opinion by explaining your logic instead of giving a poor inequality.   

How does Speed = Fair then?
Slowing something down doesn't make it more fair.... not even a little. D:

Holy crap.  I give up.  There is no point in explaining.  I just don't give a poop

No, please, explain. Since I have no idea how the hell slowing it down makes it more fair.

Well, how does speeding it up make it fair?  There's got to be one selected speed.  I know you all have the opposite opinion.  But I don't see how faster combat makes anything more fair.  I'm not even sure if I'm the best one to explain this but I'll try anyway.  I just recently played both melee and brawl and compared the speed, damage, and the physics of the combat systems.  I played as melee Fox and did so many things in such a short amount of time that it was insanity compared to what's possible in brawl.  The brawl fox is so much easier to avoid but he still has that faster speed compared to most of the roster just like in the last two games.  The same fast characters from melee are still fast and the slow characters are still slower than the fast characters.  There's not much to complain there.  Brawl's combat isn't even slow it's fast but not quite as fast as melee.   By slowing the speed down it gives all the players time to react making it more fair and fun to play.  I guess it's an issue to hardcore gamers but I don't mind it and I'm hardcore.  It's just harder to get used to for others.  I didn't put into account that if you guys wave dashed in melee all the time.  If you're comparing that speed to what you can do in brawl that's another story.  I don't think I explained this the best but I hope you get the idea.  I'll keep posting until my point is proven.  But I have a few questions for everybody here.  Why is Brawl unfair?  What makes it that way and why do you think melee is more fair than brawl?      Answer that.  I am anxious to read what you think.

Oh and before anybody besides Dawei responds to this post try supporting your opinion instead of insulting me and making a complete ass of yourself.  I am so sick of all this crap I get for thinking differently.  It's just a video game after all.   

What makes Melee more fair than Brawl?
Metaknight 0_0;;
The speed may be "slower" (which may or may not make it more fair, but thats debatable to you), but the priority for hte moves (especially Metaknight's moves all around and Snake's Tilts, etc.) are horrendously bad. Also there are more "how did they not catch these!?" sort of things like Falco's and DDD's chaingrabs.
Also, don't complain about wavedashing since it was doable by all characters, but some were just better at it than others (like SHFFL'ing was).

Brawl is unfair for a few reasons.

1. There are many more infinite's than in Melee (Only one or 2 if I remember correctly) making Ness and Lucas completely unusable in competitive play. DDD has standing infinite, not to mention an insane chain grab. Almost everyone can jab/projectile block. Wario is also raped by infinite's, and he is 8th on the tier list. Falco can rape you on a fresh stock via chain grab, and I'm of the opinion that he could win a match with only his blaster (unbelievably gay).

2. Lower speed lets the spammable moves, such as mach tornado or laser, harder to escape and easier to use in a match

3. There is a god tier. That is basically a travesty for a game that strives to level the playing field. MK is in a class of his own, with no other character even coming close to how much he dominates play.

4. Priority is either very high or very low, making some characters (MK and Snake) almost impossible to mount an offense against. When you attacks have 0% chance to hit the opponent, something is wrong.

5. Even with combo's gone, they are replaced with ridiculously powerful moves that take no time to execute and have barely any lag (MK's aerials, Snake's tilts, Numerous characters jabs)

6. Mind Games are in my opinion less useful. The slow pace of battle ruins any chance of pulling one over on your enemy, as there is simply too much time for them to see through what you were going to do. The increased speed really helped develop the mental aspect of smash, which has now been lost thanks to legions of high tier users and lower speed.

7. Tourney's are no longer a test of skill, but rather a test of who knows their top tiers more. It used to be that almost any character on the Melee Roster could feasibly win a tourney, or at least advance to the upper rounds. No more... I can almost guarantee that you will never see a G-dorf or C Falcon winning a tourney ever again. That sure sounds fair huh?

Now for an opinion. Lowered speed, and Brawl in general, seemed to suck the fun out of smash. No longer are the matches intense and tests of true skill. They are simply who can pick the better character for the match-up. Sure skill and advanced techs are still a huge part of the match, but pick anyone in the top tier and you instantly get a huge advantage over your opponent.

So, if this board is going to stop with the posts...I have a final question...

Should Meta Knight be banned from tournaments, yes or not?

It seems the answer is "no" by far.

Maybe it IS possible to beat a pro MK, but that should take a lot of time since nobody seems to find a strategy to beat a pro.

Or I'm mistaking?

Quote from: wiiboychris on December 07, 2008, 07:05:28 PM
So, if this board is going to stop with the posts...I have a final question...

Should Meta Knight be banned from tournaments, yes or not?

It seems the answer is "no" by far.

Maybe it IS possible to beat a pro MK, but that should take a lot of time since nobody seems to find a strategy to beat a pro.

Or I'm mistaking?

Its been done.
But its such an incredibly hard match-up, you have to e top of the top... suffice to say a very hard thing to accomplish.

Here's a comparison

M2K can beat anyone, not everyone can beat M2K (Of course, he would have to be sick that day, and have his A button not working, and only have the use of one eye)

Quote from: HTA on December 07, 2008, 07:11:02 PM

Quote from: wiiboychris on December 07, 2008, 07:05:28 PM
So, if this board is going to stop with the posts...I have a final question...

Should Meta Knight be banned from tournaments, yes or not?

It seems the answer is "no" by far.

Maybe it IS possible to beat a pro MK, but that should take a lot of time since nobody seems to find a strategy to beat a pro.

Or I'm mistaking?

Its been done.
But its such an incredibly hard match-up, you have to e top of the top... suffice to say a very hard thing to accomplish.

Here's a comparison

M2K can beat anyone, not everyone can beat M2K (Of course, he would have to be sick that day, and have his A button not working, and only have the use of one eye)

Seems like That would be the only way to make a fight Fair. :P

Quote from: HTA on December 07, 2008, 06:19:59 PM
Brawl is unfair for a few reasons.

1. There are many more infinite's than in Melee (Only one or 2 if I remember correctly) making Ness and Lucas completely unusable in competitive play. DDD has standing infinite, not to mention an insane chain grab. Almost everyone can jab/projectile block. Wario is also raped by infinite's, and he is 8th on the tier list. Falco can rape you on a fresh stock via chain grab, and I'm of the opinion that he could win a match with only his blaster (unbelievably gay).

2. Lower speed lets the spammable moves, such as mach tornado or laser, harder to escape and easier to use in a match

3. There is a god tier. That is basically a travesty for a game that strives to level the playing field. MK is in a class of his own, with no other character even coming close to how much he dominates play.

4. Priority is either very high or very low, making some characters (MK and Snake) almost impossible to mount an offense against. When you attacks have 0% chance to hit the opponent, something is wrong.

5. Even with combo's gone, they are replaced with ridiculously powerful moves that take no time to execute and have barely any lag (MK's aerials, Snake's tilts, Numerous characters jabs)

6. Mind Games are in my opinion less useful. The slow pace of battle ruins any chance of pulling one over on your enemy, as there is simply too much time for them to see through what you were going to do. The increased speed really helped develop the mental aspect of smash, which has now been lost thanks to legions of high tier users and lower speed.

7. Tourney's are no longer a test of skill, but rather a test of who knows their top tiers more. It used to be that almost any character on the Melee Roster could feasibly win a tourney, or at least advance to the upper rounds. No more... I can almost guarantee that you will never see a G-dorf or C Falcon winning a tourney ever again. That sure sounds fair huh?

Now for an opinion. Lowered speed, and Brawl in general, seemed to suck the fun out of smash. No longer are the matches intense and tests of true skill. They are simply who can pick the better character for the match-up. Sure skill and advanced techs are still a huge part of the match, but pick anyone in the top tier and you instantly get a huge advantage over your opponent.

Who really cares about tiers.  Anybody can be competitive with any character.  And melee had it's downsides too but you never mentioned them.  The way I see it is that smash has always been unfair in some way and brawl's no different.  I agree about the chain grab and jab lock thing.  That is true.   

Ummm... Am I the only one here who thinks Smash could actually be made into a "fair" game? o_o

Quote from: QingXin on December 08, 2008, 02:15:24 PM
Ummm... Am I the only one here who thinks Smash could actually be made into a "fair" game? o_o

It would be fair if people didn't spam or depend on jab locks and chain grabs and so on to win, but that's impossible to ask for.

You two are asking for way too much.
Fighting games are always going to be inherently "unfair" to an extent, but Smash can be WAY more fair than Brawl is.
Tollhouse, you're forgetting that compared to Melee, Brawl has a ludicrous amount of failures in terms of gameplay. Melee had it's share of problems, but nothing compared to Metaknight and the chaingrabs in Brawl. With the exception of possibly the incredibally low tier characters (and even then guys like Mewtwo and Bowser had good users), just about everyone still had a shot at winning a tournament. Brawl however, I'd be surprised to hear anyone other than the top six or seven on the tier list winning, because there isn't a reason to use anyone else seriously when guys like Metaknight, Snake, etc. just destroy everyone else...

Quote from: Nayrman on December 08, 2008, 02:34:03 PM
You two are asking for way too much.
Fighting games are always going to be inherently "unfair" to an extent, but Smash can be WAY more fair than Brawl is.
Tollhouse, you're forgetting that compared to Melee, Brawl has a ludicrous amount of failures in terms of gameplay. Melee had it's share of problems, but nothing compared to Metaknight and the chaingrabs in Brawl. With the exception of possibly the incredibally low tier characters (and even then guys like Mewtwo and Bowser had good users), just about everyone still had a shot at winning a tournament. Brawl however, I'd be surprised to hear anyone other than the top six or seven on the tier list winning, because there isn't a reason to use anyone else seriously when guys like Metaknight, Snake, etc. just destroy everyone else...

Actually if you get rid of metaknight, everyone is pretty evened out. Even Snake to an extent.

Quote from: Ridley on December 08, 2008, 02:41:43 PM

Quote from: Nayrman on December 08, 2008, 02:34:03 PM
You two are asking for way too much.
Fighting games are always going to be inherently "unfair" to an extent, but Smash can be WAY more fair than Brawl is.
Tollhouse, you're forgetting that compared to Melee, Brawl has a ludicrous amount of failures in terms of gameplay. Melee had it's share of problems, but nothing compared to Metaknight and the chaingrabs in Brawl. With the exception of possibly the incredibally low tier characters (and even then guys like Mewtwo and Bowser had good users), just about everyone still had a shot at winning a tournament. Brawl however, I'd be surprised to hear anyone other than the top six or seven on the tier list winning, because there isn't a reason to use anyone else seriously when guys like Metaknight, Snake, etc. just destroy everyone else...

Actually if you get rid of metaknight, everyone is pretty evened out. Even Snake to an extent.

Snake is definatley more fair than Metaknight, although I think we can all agree he would still be overpowered.
At least he's feasibly beatable by coming up with the right strategy...

Quote from: Nayrman on December 08, 2008, 02:44:34 PM

Quote from: Ridley on December 08, 2008, 02:41:43 PM

Quote from: Nayrman on December 08, 2008, 02:34:03 PM
You two are asking for way too much.
Fighting games are always going to be inherently "unfair" to an extent, but Smash can be WAY more fair than Brawl is.
Tollhouse, you're forgetting that compared to Melee, Brawl has a ludicrous amount of failures in terms of gameplay. Melee had it's share of problems, but nothing compared to Metaknight and the chaingrabs in Brawl. With the exception of possibly the incredibally low tier characters (and even then guys like Mewtwo and Bowser had good users), just about everyone still had a shot at winning a tournament. Brawl however, I'd be surprised to hear anyone other than the top six or seven on the tier list winning, because there isn't a reason to use anyone else seriously when guys like Metaknight, Snake, etc. just destroy everyone else...

Actually if you get rid of metaknight, everyone is pretty evened out. Even Snake to an extent.

Snake is definatley more fair than Metaknight, although I think we can all agree he would still be overpowered.
At least he's feasibly beatable by coming up with the right strategy...

Also I think the poll is in favor of keeping him because people who voted without thinking can't change their vote.

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on December 08, 2008, 02:08:43 PM

Quote from: HTA on December 07, 2008, 06:19:59 PM
Brawl is unfair for a few reasons.

1. There are many more infinite's than in Melee (Only one or 2 if I remember correctly) making Ness and Lucas completely unusable in competitive play. DDD has standing infinite, not to mention an insane chain grab. Almost everyone can jab/projectile block. Wario is also raped by infinite's, and he is 8th on the tier list. Falco can rape you on a fresh stock via chain grab, and I'm of the opinion that he could win a match with only his blaster (unbelievably gay).

2. Lower speed lets the spammable moves, such as mach tornado or laser, harder to escape and easier to use in a match

3. There is a god tier. That is basically a travesty for a game that strives to level the playing field. MK is in a class of his own, with no other character even coming close to how much he dominates play.

4. Priority is either very high or very low, making some characters (MK and Snake) almost impossible to mount an offense against. When you attacks have 0% chance to hit the opponent, something is wrong.

5. Even with combo's gone, they are replaced with ridiculously powerful moves that take no time to execute and have barely any lag (MK's aerials, Snake's tilts, Numerous characters jabs)

6. Mind Games are in my opinion less useful. The slow pace of battle ruins any chance of pulling one over on your enemy, as there is simply too much time for them to see through what you were going to do. The increased speed really helped develop the mental aspect of smash, which has now been lost thanks to legions of high tier users and lower speed.

7. Tourney's are no longer a test of skill, but rather a test of who knows their top tiers more. It used to be that almost any character on the Melee Roster could feasibly win a tourney, or at least advance to the upper rounds. No more... I can almost guarantee that you will never see a G-dorf or C Falcon winning a tourney ever again. That sure sounds fair huh?

Now for an opinion. Lowered speed, and Brawl in general, seemed to suck the fun out of smash. No longer are the matches intense and tests of true skill. They are simply who can pick the better character for the match-up. Sure skill and advanced techs are still a huge part of the match, but pick anyone in the top tier and you instantly get a huge advantage over your opponent.

Who really cares about tiers.  Anybody can be competitive with any character.  And melee had it's downsides too but you never mentioned them.  The way I see it is that smash has always been unfair in some way and brawl's no different.  I agree about the chain grab and jab lock thing.  That is true.   

Why would I try to defeat my own argument?
If tiers don't matter, then I dare you to fight a decent MK with C-Falcon. D:

I kind of want to respond to Tollhouse's ludicrous statements, but by looking at his response to hta's, it wouldn't even be worth it.

I will say one thing though. If you are in a tournament, why would you play "fair"? Are you really so dumb as to blow money just because you don't want to be "cheap"? If you are, then you shouldn't even be in this conversation, since you have absolutely no grasp on competitive smash.

Quote from: Dawei on December 08, 2008, 03:55:04 PM
I kind of want to respond to Tollhouse's ludicrous statements, but by looking at his response to hta's, it wouldn't even be worth it.

I will say one thing though. If you are in a tournament, why would you play "fair"? Are you really so dumb as to blow money just because you don't want to be "cheap"? If you are, then you shouldn't even be in this conversation, since you have absolutely no grasp on competitive smash.

I would of thought it would be more fun if everyone played fair. And you can be competive with other people that play fair too. Being competive doesn't nesecarly mean you have to be at the top level. Hardcore players are not the only competive ones. If all you do is rely on techs and chain grabs and poop to win then it'll probably make the game stale. I don't really care about tiers either. No one can tell me what characters I can't be good with. Sure its a bit harder to be good with Jigglypuff than Meta Knight but all it takes is extra practice.

Quote from: tibar21 on December 09, 2008, 07:16:54 AM

Quote from: Cogs on December 08, 2008, 03:55:04 PM
I kind of want to respond to Tollhouse's ludicrous statements, but by looking at his response to hta's, it wouldn't even be worth it.

I will say one thing though. If you are in a tournament, why would you play "fair"? Are you really so dumb as to blow money just because you don't want to be "cheap"? If you are, then you shouldn't even be in this conversation, since you have absolutely no grasp on competitive smash.

I would of thought it would be more fun if everyone played fair. And you can be competive with other people that play fair too. Being competive doesn't nesecarly mean you have to be at the top level. Hardcore players are not the only competive ones. If all you do is rely on techs and chain grabs and s*** to win then it'll probably make the game stale. I don't really care about tiers either. No one can tell me what characters I can't be good with. Sure its a bit harder to be good with Jigglypuff than Meta Knight but all it takes is extra practice.

a pro Jigglypuff will never beat a pro Metaknight...
I think that's the point you're missing. Sure on casual play it doesn't really matter but against someone who's half decent unless you're very good you'll never beat him with a really low character X_X;;

Quote from: Nayrman on December 09, 2008, 08:54:59 AM

Quote from: tibar21 on December 09, 2008, 07:16:54 AM

Quote from: Cogs on December 08, 2008, 03:55:04 PM
I kind of want to respond to Tollhouse's ludicrous statements, but by looking at his response to hta's, it wouldn't even be worth it.

I will say one thing though. If you are in a tournament, why would you play "fair"? Are you really so dumb as to blow money just because you don't want to be "cheap"? If you are, then you shouldn't even be in this conversation, since you have absolutely no grasp on competitive smash.

I would of thought it would be more fun if everyone played fair. And you can be competive with other people that play fair too. Being competive doesn't nesecarly mean you have to be at the top level. Hardcore players are not the only competive ones. If all you do is rely on techs and chain grabs and s*** to win then it'll probably make the game stale. I don't really care about tiers either. No one can tell me what characters I can't be good with. Sure its a bit harder to be good with Jigglypuff than Meta Knight but all it takes is extra practice.

a pro Jigglypuff will never beat a pro Metaknight...
I think that's the point you're missing. Sure on casual play it doesn't really matter but against someone who's half decent unless you're very good you'll never beat him with a really low character X_X;;

have you ever heard of such thing as extra effort or practice. Its hard but not not impossible.

Nothing is impossible,
the thing is whether you practice constantly with Jiggly puff just to train to fight a very good MK player, regardless chances are you'll still lose.

J-puff for one has never been the type of character 1 would play to win in Tournaments anyway.
(I'm sure atleast, I don't dare set foot around situations like tournaments).
I mean, whens the last time you see a J-puff win? Pretty rarely if anything.

The point is, MK as HTA put it (and I agree), is in a class of his own.
You get to close to MK and he can just easily pull out a quick attack before you even get to close.
And this is from a J-Puff vs. MK status fight.

J-Puff is lighter then MK and can easily get KO'ed by MK's attacks (as well as any other character) >__>

Anyway, what I'm saying is that a person can train for as long/hard as they can, chances are if they go up against a decent enough MK, chances are MK will win. (it can be a close match) but statistically MK has
the advantage in every category. :(

Quote from: tibar21 on December 09, 2008, 07:16:54 AM

Quote from: Dawei on December 08, 2008, 03:55:04 PM
I kind of want to respond to Tollhouse's ludicrous statements, but by looking at his response to hta's, it wouldn't even be worth it.

I will say one thing though. If you are in a tournament, why would you play "fair"? Are you really so dumb as to blow money just because you don't want to be "cheap"? If you are, then you shouldn't even be in this conversation, since you have absolutely no grasp on competitive smash.

I would of thought it would be more fun if everyone played fair. And you can be competive with other people that play fair too. Being competive doesn't nesecarly mean you have to be at the top level. Hardcore players are not the only competive ones. If all you do is rely on techs and chain grabs and poop to win then it'll probably make the game stale. I don't really care about tiers either. No one can tell me what characters I can't be good with. Sure its a bit harder to be good with Jigglypuff than Meta Knight but all it takes is extra practice.

Would you really rather play "fairly" than make money? Everyone else has covered the "only at your level" stuff, so I'll just touch on one other point.

Characters only have so much potential. It's the way they are made. The only way characters could be completely even is if they all had the exact same everything. Movement, height, moveset, weight, every single thing. Then they can be even. But as they aren't, characters do have advantages, and no matter how much you practice, no matter how hard you try, the other person still is more likely to win because they are simply using a better character. Now, I'm sure a bunch of dumb people will say "well i've beaten an mk b4 with ganundawrf, so eets posyble". That argument is completely invalid because both you and your opponent probably suck. I'm not sure why we are even discussing tiers at this point though, since long ago they were proven to be real. Educate yourself here (http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/User:Semicolon/Treatise_on_the_Existence_of_Tiers). If you actually read the entire thing and can understand what it says, you shouldn't have any more doubt in your mind.

Quote from: Cogs on November 30, 2008, 07:54:08 PM
No one EVER said Ike was broken. Only retarded scrubs who played with items on high on stages like big blue thought that. Everyone who ever went to tourneys sat there and lol'ing at the people who thought Ike was good.

I was actually talking about the people at Smash World Forums, a long time ago.

They would say crap like, "Ike is broken because he can KO at 20% damage", or "He's broken because he has an abusive Up Special".
And other loads of crap.

Quote from: SSBBRAWLIN on December 09, 2008, 03:20:23 PM

Quote from: Cogs on November 30, 2008, 07:54:08 PM
No one EVER said Ike was broken. Only retarded scrubs who played with items on high on stages like big blue thought that. Everyone who ever went to tourneys sat there and lol'ing at the people who thought Ike was good.

I was actually talking about the people at Smash World Forums, a long time ago.

They would say crap like, "Ike is broken because he can KO at 20% damage", or "He's broken because he has an abusive Up Special".
And other loads of crap.

Clearly, you don't understand sarcasm. And if they were truly being serious, it was still scrubs. Just being on swf doesn't make you knowledge/good.

Quote from: Cogs on December 09, 2008, 03:28:13 PM

Quote from: SSBBRAWLIN on December 09, 2008, 03:20:23 PM

Quote from: Cogs on November 30, 2008, 07:54:08 PM
No one EVER said Ike was broken. Only retarded scrubs who played with items on high on stages like big blue thought that. Everyone who ever went to tourneys sat there and lol'ing at the people who thought Ike was good.

I was actually talking about the people at Smash World Forums, a long time ago.

They would say crap like, "Ike is broken because he can KO at 20% damage", or "He's broken because he has an abusive Up Special".
And other loads of crap.

Clearly, you don't understand sarcasm. And if they were truly being serious, it was still scrubs. Just being on swf doesn't make you knowledge/good.

Trust me, it was not sarcasm.
As you just stated, they're most likely retarded scrubs. So I'll leave it at that.


Anyways, why is everyone complaining about "fairness" all of a sudden?

Quote from: SSBBRAWLIN on December 09, 2008, 04:03:13 PM

Quote from: Cogs on December 09, 2008, 03:28:13 PM

Quote from: SSBBRAWLIN on December 09, 2008, 03:20:23 PM

Quote from: Cogs on November 30, 2008, 07:54:08 PM
No one EVER said Ike was broken. Only retarded scrubs who played with items on high on stages like big blue thought that. Everyone who ever went to tourneys sat there and lol'ing at the people who thought Ike was good.

I was actually talking about the people at Smash World Forums, a long time ago.

They would say crap like, "Ike is broken because he can KO at 20% damage", or "He's broken because he has an abusive Up Special".
And other loads of crap.

Clearly, you don't understand sarcasm. And if they were truly being serious, it was still scrubs. Just being on swf doesn't make you knowledge/good.

Trust me, it was not sarcasm.
As you just stated, they're most likely retarded scrubs. So I'll leave it at that.


Anyways, why is everyone complaining about "fairness"?

Because when compared to smash 1 and Melee this game's balancing for characters (and stages) is appalling...

well of course pros play unfairly in tournaments to win, you don't need to tell me that.  I'd do the same.  i just play fair with friends that's all.  And upon further thought you guys bring a good point in how brawl's roster isn't as balanced as melee's. 

Quote from: Nayrman on December 09, 2008, 04:04:29 PM

Quote from: SSBBRAWLIN on December 09, 2008, 04:03:13 PM

Quote from: Cogs on December 09, 2008, 03:28:13 PM

Quote from: SSBBRAWLIN on December 09, 2008, 03:20:23 PM

Quote from: Cogs on November 30, 2008, 07:54:08 PM
No one EVER said Ike was broken. Only retarded scrubs who played with items on high on stages like big blue thought that. Everyone who ever went to tourneys sat there and lol'ing at the people who thought Ike was good.

I was actually talking about the people at Smash World Forums, a long time ago.

They would say crap like, "Ike is broken because he can KO at 20% damage", or "He's broken because he has an abusive Up Special".
And other loads of crap.

Clearly, you don't understand sarcasm. And if they were truly being serious, it was still scrubs. Just being on swf doesn't make you knowledge/good.

Trust me, it was not sarcasm.
As you just stated, they're most likely retarded scrubs. So I'll leave it at that.


Anyways, why is everyone complaining about "fairness"?

Because when compared to smash 1 and Melee this game's balancing for characters (and stages) is appalling...

Oh, yeah.
Most definitely.
Compared to the others, this game went wrong in many ways I can't even explain right now.

And I'm not trying to funny with that comment.

Quote from: Dawei on December 09, 2008, 02:55:38 PM

Quote from: tibar21 on December 09, 2008, 07:16:54 AM

Quote from: Cogs on December 08, 2008, 03:55:04 PM
I kind of want to respond to Tollhouse's ludicrous statements, but by looking at his response to hta's, it wouldn't even be worth it.

I will say one thing though. If you are in a tournament, why would you play "fair"? Are you really so dumb as to blow money just because you don't want to be "cheap"? If you are, then you shouldn't even be in this conversation, since you have absolutely no grasp on competitive smash.

I would of thought it would be more fun if everyone played fair. And you can be competive with other people that play fair too. Being competive doesn't nesecarly mean you have to be at the top level. Hardcore players are not the only competive ones. If all you do is rely on techs and chain grabs and s*** to win then it'll probably make the game stale. I don't really care about tiers either. No one can tell me what characters I can't be good with. Sure its a bit harder to be good with Jigglypuff than Meta Knight but all it takes is extra practice.

Would you really rather play "fairly" than make money? Everyone else has covered the "only at your level" stuff, so I'll just touch on one other point.

Characters only have so much potential. It's the way they are made. The only way characters could be completely even is if they all had the exact same everything. Movement, height, moveset, weight, every single thing. Then they can be even. But as they aren't, characters do have advantages, and no matter how much you practice, no matter how hard you try, the other person still is more likely to win because they are simply using a better character. Now, I'm sure a bunch of dumb people will say "well i've beaten an mk b4 with ganundawrf, so eets posyble". That argument is completely invalid because both you and your opponent probably suck. I'm not sure why we are even discussing tiers at this point though, since long ago they were proven to be real. Educate yourself here (http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/User:Semicolon/Treatise_on_the_Existence_of_Tiers). If you actually read the entire thing and can understand what it says, you shouldn't have any more doubt in your mind.

this thing you said on that tier thread perfectly illustrates my point about the Jigglypuff Meta Knight thing.

6. "In Smash, any character can win in any matchup if you are smarter and better than your opponents by a wide enough margin. So keep playing to win and work hard to be the best player you can be, regardless of which character you use."

Quote from: tibar21 on December 10, 2008, 12:51:07 PM

Quote from: Dawei on December 09, 2008, 02:55:38 PM

Quote from: tibar21 on December 09, 2008, 07:16:54 AM

Quote from: Cogs on December 08, 2008, 03:55:04 PM
I kind of want to respond to Tollhouse's ludicrous statements, but by looking at his response to hta's, it wouldn't even be worth it.

I will say one thing though. If you are in a tournament, why would you play "fair"? Are you really so dumb as to blow money just because you don't want to be "cheap"? If you are, then you shouldn't even be in this conversation, since you have absolutely no grasp on competitive smash.

I would of thought it would be more fun if everyone played fair. And you can be competive with other people that play fair too. Being competive doesn't nesecarly mean you have to be at the top level. Hardcore players are not the only competive ones. If all you do is rely on techs and chain grabs and s*** to win then it'll probably make the game stale. I don't really care about tiers either. No one can tell me what characters I can't be good with. Sure its a bit harder to be good with Jigglypuff than Meta Knight but all it takes is extra practice.

Would you really rather play "fairly" than make money? Everyone else has covered the "only at your level" stuff, so I'll just touch on one other point.

Characters only have so much potential. It's the way they are made. The only way characters could be completely even is if they all had the exact same everything. Movement, height, moveset, weight, every single thing. Then they can be even. But as they aren't, characters do have advantages, and no matter how much you practice, no matter how hard you try, the other person still is more likely to win because they are simply using a better character. Now, I'm sure a bunch of dumb people will say "well i've beaten an mk b4 with ganundawrf, so eets posyble". That argument is completely invalid because both you and your opponent probably suck. I'm not sure why we are even discussing tiers at this point though, since long ago they were proven to be real. Educate yourself here (http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/User:Semicolon/Treatise_on_the_Existence_of_Tiers). If you actually read the entire thing and can understand what it says, you shouldn't have any more doubt in your mind.

this thing you said on that tier thread perfectly illustrates my point about the Jigglypuff Meta Knight thing.

6. "In Smash, any character can win in any matchup if you are smarter and better than your opponents by a wide enough margin. So keep playing to win and work hard to be the best player you can be, regardless of which character you use."

But here's what you're missing. If you try to fight MK with Diddy or Snake, that margin does not have to be that big.

If you're trying to beat MK with Jiggs, that margin has to be HUGE. It makes it a whole lot harder.

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on December 10, 2008, 02:42:23 PM
is the tier list the only thing you guys use to judge match ups?

There is a reason it's the official tier list ya know X_X;;

Quote from: Nayrman on December 10, 2008, 02:43:29 PM

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on December 10, 2008, 02:42:23 PM
is the tier list the only thing you guys use to judge match ups?

There is a reason it's the official tier list ya know X_X;;

Do you have a link to it? 

I have a thread floated here.

Quote from: Dawei on December 10, 2008, 03:44:07 PM
I have a thread floated here.

How did I not notice that?  I should be coming her more often.  But this board gets boring quickly due to the low amount of activity

the tier list lacks a lot of sense to me. its based on techs, spamming, and chaingrabs. otherwise Dedede would be at the bottom.

Quote from: tibar21 on December 13, 2008, 12:48:43 PM
the tier list lacks a lot of sense to me. its based on techs and chaingrabs. otherwise Dedede would be at the bottom.

He's a damage tank.
Relatively fast smashes for their power.
Amazing projectile spamming.
2 multi-hit aerials
Potentially game-breaking technique (goon farming)
Long reach (F-tilt for example)
Recovery has huge vertical distance, even with its unreliability horizontally.
And then chains + infinite's

The tier is based on more than just that he has a chain grab.
SBR isn't that shallow... hopefully. D:

well, everyone I know doesn't spam or chaingrab to win. they ought to make a tier list for the people that play the game the right way. What I mean is make a tier list but minus elements like spamming and chaingrabs.

Quote from: tibar21 on December 13, 2008, 02:16:08 PM
well, everyone I know doesn't spam or chaingrab to win. they ought to make a tier list for the people that play the game the right way.

::) Uh no.  Players like that shouldn't be over organized.

Quote from: tibar21 on December 13, 2008, 02:16:08 PM
well, everyone I know doesn't spam or chaingrab to win. they ought to make a tier list for the people that play the game the right way.

Nobody plays, " the Right way "....... and Wins. :P

Quote from: StarWindWizard7 on December 13, 2008, 06:03:33 PM

Quote from: tibar21 on December 13, 2008, 02:16:08 PM
well, everyone I know doesn't spam or chaingrab to win. they ought to make a tier list for the people that play the game the right way.

Nobody plays, " the Right way "....... and Wins. :P

atleast in tournaments.

Quote from: tibar21 on December 13, 2008, 02:16:08 PM
well, everyone I know doesn't spam or chaingrab to win. they ought to make a tier list for the people that play the game the right way.

Wtf is the "right way"
I'm confused.

Quote from: HTA on December 13, 2008, 06:22:25 PM

Quote from: tibar21 on December 13, 2008, 02:16:08 PM
well, everyone I know doesn't spam or chaingrab to win. they ought to make a tier list for the people that play the game the right way.

Wtf is the "right way"
I'm confused.

I know...really.... X_X;;
If your character has a blatant advantage you use it! Why do you think everyone uses the Metal Blades at all times in Megaman 2!?

Quote from: Nayrman on December 13, 2008, 06:28:53 PM

Quote from: HTA on December 13, 2008, 06:22:25 PM

Quote from: tibar21 on December 13, 2008, 02:16:08 PM
well, everyone I know doesn't spam or chaingrab to win. they ought to make a tier list for the people that play the game the right way.

Wtf is the "right way"
I'm confused.

I know...really.... X_X;;
If your character has a blatant advantage you use it! Why do you think everyone uses the Metal Blades at all times in Megaman 2!?

Uh hello, He's talking about no annoying spam, jab locks, chain grabs, etc 

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on December 13, 2008, 06:34:43 PM

Quote from: Nayrman on December 13, 2008, 06:28:53 PM

Quote from: HTA on December 13, 2008, 06:22:25 PM

Quote from: tibar21 on December 13, 2008, 02:16:08 PM
well, everyone I know doesn't spam or chaingrab to win. they ought to make a tier list for the people that play the game the right way.

Wtf is the "right way"
I'm confused.

I know...really.... X_X;;
If your character has a blatant advantage you use it! Why do you think everyone uses the Metal Blades at all times in Megaman 2!?

Uh hello, He's talking about no annoying spam, jab locks, chain grabs, etc 

That's what I was talking about. If Falco has a quick blaster than stuns, you spam it X_X;;

Quote from: Nayrman on December 13, 2008, 06:35:30 PM

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on December 13, 2008, 06:34:43 PM

Quote from: Nayrman on December 13, 2008, 06:28:53 PM

Quote from: HTA on December 13, 2008, 06:22:25 PM

Quote from: tibar21 on December 13, 2008, 02:16:08 PM
well, everyone I know doesn't spam or chaingrab to win. they ought to make a tier list for the people that play the game the right way.

Wtf is the "right way"
I'm confused.

I know...really.... X_X;;
If your character has a blatant advantage you use it! Why do you think everyone uses the Metal Blades at all times in Megaman 2!?

Uh hello, He's talking about no annoying spam, jab locks, chain grabs, etc 

That's what I was talking about. If Falco has a quick blaster than stuns, you spam it X_X;;

True but you wouldn't be fun to play with if you just used your blaster.  do you get what i'm saying.  you gotta try to be diversed in your moves and stop being so stale.  it makes the game more entertaining and less annoying and frustrating.  this is for friends though.  if this was a tournament blaster all you want. 

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on December 13, 2008, 06:39:41 PM

Quote from: Nayrman on December 13, 2008, 06:35:30 PM

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on December 13, 2008, 06:34:43 PM

Quote from: Nayrman on December 13, 2008, 06:28:53 PM

Quote from: HTA on December 13, 2008, 06:22:25 PM

Quote from: tibar21 on December 13, 2008, 02:16:08 PM
well, everyone I know doesn't spam or chaingrab to win. they ought to make a tier list for the people that play the game the right way.

Wtf is the "right way"
I'm confused.

I know...really.... X_X;;
If your character has a blatant advantage you use it! Why do you think everyone uses the Metal Blades at all times in Megaman 2!?

Uh hello, He's talking about no annoying spam, jab locks, chain grabs, etc 

That's what I was talking about. If Falco has a quick blaster than stuns, you spam it X_X;;

True but you wouldn't be fun to play with if you just used your blaster.  do you get what i'm saying.  you gotta try to be diversed in your moves and stop being so stale.  it makes the game more entertaining and less annoying and frustrating.  this is for friends though.  if this was a tournament blaster all you want. 

that's a matter of opinion and it really doesn't get stale for me because when you play someone good it doesn't matter.
Also, ***IN MY EXPERIENCE*** the only ppl who say stuff like that are people who suck at the game >:D

Quote from: Nayrman on December 13, 2008, 06:41:44 PM

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on December 13, 2008, 06:39:41 PM

Quote from: Nayrman on December 13, 2008, 06:35:30 PM

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on December 13, 2008, 06:34:43 PM

Quote from: Nayrman on December 13, 2008, 06:28:53 PM

Quote from: HTA on December 13, 2008, 06:22:25 PM

Quote from: tibar21 on December 13, 2008, 02:16:08 PM
well, everyone I know doesn't spam or chaingrab to win. they ought to make a tier list for the people that play the game the right way.

Wtf is the "right way"
I'm confused.

I know...really.... X_X;;
If your character has a blatant advantage you use it! Why do you think everyone uses the Metal Blades at all times in Megaman 2!?

Uh hello, He's talking about no annoying spam, jab locks, chain grabs, etc 

That's what I was talking about. If Falco has a quick blaster than stuns, you spam it X_X;;

True but you wouldn't be fun to play with if you just used your blaster.  do you get what i'm saying.  you gotta try to be diversed in your moves and stop being so stale.  it makes the game more entertaining and less annoying and frustrating.  this is for friends though.  if this was a tournament blaster all you want. 

that's a matter of opinion and it really doesn't get stale for me because when you play someone good it doesn't matter.
Also, ***IN MY EXPERIENCE*** the only ppl who say stuff like that are people who suck at the game >:D

ooo good comeback.  i'm shaking.  you don't even need to be talented to spam.  spaming to win and calling yourself good makes you a fraud.  If I had wifi I'd beat u right now

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on December 13, 2008, 06:48:39 PM

Quote from: Nayrman on December 13, 2008, 06:41:44 PM

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on December 13, 2008, 06:39:41 PM

Quote from: Nayrman on December 13, 2008, 06:35:30 PM

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on December 13, 2008, 06:34:43 PM

Quote from: Nayrman on December 13, 2008, 06:28:53 PM

Quote from: HTA on December 13, 2008, 06:22:25 PM

Quote from: tibar21 on December 13, 2008, 02:16:08 PM
well, everyone I know doesn't spam or chaingrab to win. they ought to make a tier list for the people that play the game the right way.

Wtf is the "right way"
I'm confused.

I know...really.... X_X;;
If your character has a blatant advantage you use it! Why do you think everyone uses the Metal Blades at all times in Megaman 2!?

Uh hello, He's talking about no annoying spam, jab locks, chain grabs, etc 

That's what I was talking about. If Falco has a quick blaster than stuns, you spam it X_X;;

True but you wouldn't be fun to play with if you just used your blaster.  do you get what i'm saying.  you gotta try to be diversed in your moves and stop being so stale.  it makes the game more entertaining and less annoying and frustrating.  this is for friends though.  if this was a tournament blaster all you want. 

that's a matter of opinion and it really doesn't get stale for me because when you play someone good it doesn't matter.
Also, ***IN MY EXPERIENCE*** the only ppl who say stuff like that are people who suck at the game >:D

ooo good comeback.  i'm shaking.  you don't even need to be talented to spam.  spaming to win and calling yourself good makes you a fraud.  If I had wifi I'd beat u right now

you have to know how to spam correctly. A DDD who's poor at using his side B spam will get crushed by anyone with even half decent speed.

Quote from: Nayrman on December 13, 2008, 06:51:29 PM

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on December 13, 2008, 06:48:39 PM

Quote from: Nayrman on December 13, 2008, 06:41:44 PM

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on December 13, 2008, 06:39:41 PM

Quote from: Nayrman on December 13, 2008, 06:35:30 PM

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on December 13, 2008, 06:34:43 PM

Quote from: Nayrman on December 13, 2008, 06:28:53 PM

Quote from: HTA on December 13, 2008, 06:22:25 PM

Quote from: tibar21 on December 13, 2008, 02:16:08 PM
well, everyone I know doesn't spam or chaingrab to win. they ought to make a tier list for the people that play the game the right way.

Wtf is the "right way"
I'm confused.

I know...really.... X_X;;
If your character has a blatant advantage you use it! Why do you think everyone uses the Metal Blades at all times in Megaman 2!?

Uh hello, He's talking about no annoying spam, jab locks, chain grabs, etc 

That's what I was talking about. If Falco has a quick blaster than stuns, you spam it X_X;;

True but you wouldn't be fun to play with if you just used your blaster.  do you get what i'm saying.  you gotta try to be diversed in your moves and stop being so stale.  it makes the game more entertaining and less annoying and frustrating.  this is for friends though.  if this was a tournament blaster all you want. 

that's a matter of opinion and it really doesn't get stale for me because when you play someone good it doesn't matter.
Also, ***IN MY EXPERIENCE*** the only ppl who say stuff like that are people who suck at the game >:D

ooo good comeback.  i'm shaking.  you don't even need to be talented to spam.  spaming to win and calling yourself good makes you a fraud.  If I had wifi I'd beat u right now

you have to know how to spam correctly. A DDD who's poor at using his side B spam will get crushed by anyone with even half decent speed.

there isn't a wrong way to spam and planning when and where you'll do it makes you predictable

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on December 13, 2008, 06:55:06 PM

Quote from: Nayrman on December 13, 2008, 06:51:29 PM

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on December 13, 2008, 06:48:39 PM

Quote from: Nayrman on December 13, 2008, 06:41:44 PM

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on December 13, 2008, 06:39:41 PM

Quote from: Nayrman on December 13, 2008, 06:35:30 PM

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on December 13, 2008, 06:34:43 PM

Quote from: Nayrman on December 13, 2008, 06:28:53 PM

Quote from: HTA on December 13, 2008, 06:22:25 PM

Quote from: tibar21 on December 13, 2008, 02:16:08 PM
well, everyone I know doesn't spam or chaingrab to win. they ought to make a tier list for the people that play the game the right way.

Wtf is the "right way"
I'm confused.

I know...really.... X_X;;
If your character has a blatant advantage you use it! Why do you think everyone uses the Metal Blades at all times in Megaman 2!?

Uh hello, He's talking about no annoying spam, jab locks, chain grabs, etc 

That's what I was talking about. If Falco has a quick blaster than stuns, you spam it X_X;;

True but you wouldn't be fun to play with if you just used your blaster.  do you get what i'm saying.  you gotta try to be diversed in your moves and stop being so stale.  it makes the game more entertaining and less annoying and frustrating.  this is for friends though.  if this was a tournament blaster all you want. 

that's a matter of opinion and it really doesn't get stale for me because when you play someone good it doesn't matter.
Also, ***IN MY EXPERIENCE*** the only ppl who say stuff like that are people who suck at the game >:D

ooo good comeback.  i'm shaking.  you don't even need to be talented to spam.  spaming to win and calling yourself good makes you a fraud.  If I had wifi I'd beat u right now

you have to know how to spam correctly. A DDD who's poor at using his side B spam will get crushed by anyone with even half decent speed.

there isn't a wrong way to spam and planning when and where you'll do it makes you predictable

That's why it's annoying sometimes, they roll at you, roll and roll, till they have you.

(On a side not, it's just me, or tollhouse is acting evil?)

I'm not trying to be evil.  I'm just trying to get across Tibar's view of playing fair.  Did my new avatar influence you?

Quote from: wiiboychris on December 13, 2008, 06:57:55 PM

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on December 13, 2008, 06:55:06 PM

Quote from: Nayrman on December 13, 2008, 06:51:29 PM

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on December 13, 2008, 06:48:39 PM

Quote from: Nayrman on December 13, 2008, 06:41:44 PM

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on December 13, 2008, 06:39:41 PM

Quote from: Nayrman on December 13, 2008, 06:35:30 PM

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on December 13, 2008, 06:34:43 PM

Quote from: Nayrman on December 13, 2008, 06:28:53 PM

Quote from: HTA on December 13, 2008, 06:22:25 PM

Quote from: tibar21 on December 13, 2008, 02:16:08 PM
well, everyone I know doesn't spam or chaingrab to win. they ought to make a tier list for the people that play the game the right way.

Wtf is the "right way"
I'm confused.

I know...really.... X_X;;
If your character has a blatant advantage you use it! Why do you think everyone uses the Metal Blades at all times in Megaman 2!?

Uh hello, He's talking about no annoying spam, jab locks, chain grabs, etc 

That's what I was talking about. If Falco has a quick blaster than stuns, you spam it X_X;;

True but you wouldn't be fun to play with if you just used your blaster.  do you get what i'm saying.  you gotta try to be diversed in your moves and stop being so stale.  it makes the game more entertaining and less annoying and frustrating.  this is for friends though.  if this was a tournament blaster all you want. 

that's a matter of opinion and it really doesn't get stale for me because when you play someone good it doesn't matter.
Also, ***IN MY EXPERIENCE*** the only ppl who say stuff like that are people who suck at the game >:D

ooo good comeback.  i'm shaking.  you don't even need to be talented to spam.  spaming to win and calling yourself good makes you a fraud.  If I had wifi I'd beat u right now

you have to know how to spam correctly. A DDD who's poor at using his side B spam will get crushed by anyone with even half decent speed.

there isn't a wrong way to spam and planning when and where you'll do it makes you predictable

That's why it's annoying sometimes, they roll at you, roll and roll, till they have you.

(On a side not, it's just me, or tollhouse is acting evil?)

(http://www.nsfcd.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=2963;type=avatar)
I blame this ^

Anyway- Spam to win.... If you can take a a false earned victory...  =|

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on December 13, 2008, 07:05:38 PM
I'm not trying to be evil.  I'm just trying to get across Tibar's view of playing fair.  Did my new avatar influence you?

See,

Scaaaary evil! D=

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on December 13, 2008, 07:05:38 PM
I'm not trying to be evil.  I'm just trying to get across Tibar's view of playing fair.  Did my new avatar influence you?

70%.  :P

Anyway, this idea of banning MK just keep going and going until somebody finds a final judgment.

Quote from: StarWindWizard7 on December 13, 2008, 07:07:49 PM

Quote from: wiiboychris on December 13, 2008, 06:57:55 PM

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on December 13, 2008, 06:55:06 PM

Quote from: Nayrman on December 13, 2008, 06:51:29 PM

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on December 13, 2008, 06:48:39 PM

Quote from: Nayrman on December 13, 2008, 06:41:44 PM

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on December 13, 2008, 06:39:41 PM

Quote from: Nayrman on December 13, 2008, 06:35:30 PM

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on December 13, 2008, 06:34:43 PM

Quote from: Nayrman on December 13, 2008, 06:28:53 PM

Quote from: HTA on December 13, 2008, 06:22:25 PM

Quote from: tibar21 on December 13, 2008, 02:16:08 PM
well, everyone I know doesn't spam or chaingrab to win. they ought to make a tier list for the people that play the game the right way.

Wtf is the "right way"
I'm confused.

I know...really.... X_X;;
If your character has a blatant advantage you use it! Why do you think everyone uses the Metal Blades at all times in Megaman 2!?

Uh hello, He's talking about no annoying spam, jab locks, chain grabs, etc 

That's what I was talking about. If Falco has a quick blaster than stuns, you spam it X_X;;

True but you wouldn't be fun to play with if you just used your blaster.  do you get what i'm saying.  you gotta try to be diversed in your moves and stop being so stale.  it makes the game more entertaining and less annoying and frustrating.  this is for friends though.  if this was a tournament blaster all you want. 

that's a matter of opinion and it really doesn't get stale for me because when you play someone good it doesn't matter.
Also, ***IN MY EXPERIENCE*** the only ppl who say stuff like that are people who suck at the game >:D

ooo good comeback.  i'm shaking.  you don't even need to be talented to spam.  spaming to win and calling yourself good makes you a fraud.  If I had wifi I'd beat u right now

you have to know how to spam correctly. A DDD who's poor at using his side B spam will get crushed by anyone with even half decent speed.

there isn't a wrong way to spam and planning when and where you'll do it makes you predictable

That's why it's annoying sometimes, they roll at you, roll and roll, till they have you.

(On a side not, it's just me, or tollhouse is acting evil?)

(http://www.nsfcd.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=2963;type=avatar)
I blame this ^

Anyway- Spam to win.... If you can take a a false earned victory...  =|

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on December 13, 2008, 07:05:38 PM
I'm not trying to be evil.  I'm just trying to get across Tibar's view of playing fair.  Did my new avatar influence you?

See,

Scaaaary evil! D=

Haaaaahhhhhhhaaaaa :D :D :D  That cracked me up  I think it looks cool

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on December 13, 2008, 07:17:15 PM

Quote from: StarWindWizard7 on December 13, 2008, 07:07:49 PM

Quote from: wiiboychris on December 13, 2008, 06:57:55 PM

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on December 13, 2008, 06:55:06 PM

Quote from: Nayrman on December 13, 2008, 06:51:29 PM

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on December 13, 2008, 06:48:39 PM

Quote from: Nayrman on December 13, 2008, 06:41:44 PM

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on December 13, 2008, 06:39:41 PM

Quote from: Nayrman on December 13, 2008, 06:35:30 PM

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on December 13, 2008, 06:34:43 PM

Quote from: Nayrman on December 13, 2008, 06:28:53 PM

Quote from: HTA on December 13, 2008, 06:22:25 PM

Quote from: tibar21 on December 13, 2008, 02:16:08 PM
well, everyone I know doesn't spam or chaingrab to win. they ought to make a tier list for the people that play the game the right way.

Wtf is the "right way"
I'm confused.

I know...really.... X_X;;
If your character has a blatant advantage you use it! Why do you think everyone uses the Metal Blades at all times in Megaman 2!?

Uh hello, He's talking about no annoying spam, jab locks, chain grabs, etc 

That's what I was talking about. If Falco has a quick blaster than stuns, you spam it X_X;;

True but you wouldn't be fun to play with if you just used your blaster.  do you get what i'm saying.  you gotta try to be diversed in your moves and stop being so stale.  it makes the game more entertaining and less annoying and frustrating.  this is for friends though.  if this was a tournament blaster all you want. 

that's a matter of opinion and it really doesn't get stale for me because when you play someone good it doesn't matter.
Also, ***IN MY EXPERIENCE*** the only ppl who say stuff like that are people who suck at the game >:D

ooo good comeback.  i'm shaking.  you don't even need to be talented to spam.  spaming to win and calling yourself good makes you a fraud.  If I had wifi I'd beat u right now

you have to know how to spam correctly. A DDD who's poor at using his side B spam will get crushed by anyone with even half decent speed.

there isn't a wrong way to spam and planning when and where you'll do it makes you predictable

That's why it's annoying sometimes, they roll at you, roll and roll, till they have you.

(On a side not, it's just me, or tollhouse is acting evil?)

(http://www.nsfcd.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=2963;type=avatar)
I blame this ^

Anyway- Spam to win.... If you can take a a false earned victory...  =|

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on December 13, 2008, 07:05:38 PM
I'm not trying to be evil.  I'm just trying to get across Tibar's view of playing fair.  Did my new avatar influence you?

See,

Scaaaary evil! D=

Haaaaahhhhhhhaaaaa :D :D :D  That cracked me up  I think it looks cool

It looks like an eviler version of Metaknight...  D=

Yeah, I found it on photobucket.

If chain grabbing and strategic projectile spamming isn't playing the right way, we might as well all be noobs. D:

Its part of the game like it or not. Adapt or perish.

Quote from: HTA on December 13, 2008, 10:51:04 PM
If chain grabbing and strategic projectile spamming isn't playing the right way, we might as well all be noobs. D:

Its part of the game like it or not. Adapt or perish.

I guess you're a noob then and also that stuff doesn't have to be part of the game. 

k

itt; Tibar and tollhouse both have no idea what they are talking about.

I'll be blunt: No one gives a SHIT about what you two think. We don't need some dumbass scrub opinion about how this game "should" be played. If we all wanted to be nice little pussnuggets, we would be intercourse ing play time with items on high using the wiimote. But no, we play this game to win. It can be a friendly match, sure, whatever. But it's still about winning. And any time it isn't about winning, doesn't matter AT ALL for this tier list, and anything related to high level smash. So please, if you want to try and argue anything at all about what you think, please don't be so darn retarded about it and use some real logic.

also get a intercourse ing router so we can all rape you online using our "cheap" tactics.
Finally, sorry for coming off harsh. It's just I'm sick of dumb stuff like this.

Quote from: Dawei on December 14, 2008, 03:51:47 PM
itt; Tibar and tollhouse both have no idea what they are talking about.

I'll be blunt: No one gives a s*** about what you two think. We don't need some dumbass scrub opinion about how this game "should" be played. If we all wanted to be nice little pussnuggets, we would be f***ing play time with items on high using the wiimote. But no, we play this game to win. It can be a friendly match, sure, whatever. But it's still about winning. And any time it isn't about winning, doesn't matter AT ALL for this tier list, and anything related to high level smash. So please, if you want to try and argue anything at all about what you think, please don't be so dang retarded about it and use some real logic.

also get a f***ing router so we can all rape you online using our "cheap" tactics.
Finally, sorry for coming off harsh. It's just I'm sick of dumb stuff like this.

Scrub... yeah. Anyway, has there been a tourney yet that has banned mk?

Quote from: Mutilator7 on December 14, 2008, 04:13:10 PM

Quote from: Dawei on December 14, 2008, 03:51:47 PM
itt; Tibar and tollhouse both have no idea what they are talking about.

I'll be blunt: No one gives a s*** about what you two think. We don't need some dumbass scrub opinion about how this game "should" be played. If we all wanted to be nice little pussnuggets, we would be f***ing play time with items on high using the wiimote. But no, we play this game to win. It can be a friendly match, sure, whatever. But it's still about winning. And any time it isn't about winning, doesn't matter AT ALL for this tier list, and anything related to high level smash. So please, if you want to try and argue anything at all about what you think, please don't be so dang retarded about it and use some real logic.

also get a f***ing router so we can all rape you online using our "cheap" tactics.
Finally, sorry for coming off harsh. It's just I'm sick of dumb stuff like this.

Scrub... yeah. Anyway, has there been a tourney yet that has banned mk?

Texas has had a stream of tournaments with him banned, and then occasionally they have tourneys in other places with him banned, though they are usually smaller ones.

Quote from: Dawei on December 14, 2008, 03:51:47 PM
itt; Tibar and tollhouse both have no idea what they are talking about.

I'll be blunt: No one gives a SHIT about what you two think. We don't need some dumbass scrub opinion about how this game "should" be played. If we all wanted to be nice little pussnuggets, we would be intercourse ing play time with items on high using the wiimote. But no, we play this game to win. It can be a friendly match, sure, whatever. But it's still about winning. And any time it isn't about winning, doesn't matter AT ALL for this tier list, and anything related to high level smash. So please, if you want to try and argue anything at all about what you think, please don't be so darn retarded about it and use some real logic.

also get a intercourse ing router so we can all rape you online using our "cheap" tactics.
Finally, sorry for coming off harsh. It's just I'm sick of dumb stuff like this.

No harm taken.  I don't get offended that easily.  I will have a router soon hopefully.  And also all that crap I mentioned before was just to get Tibar's statement across, not mine.  I can put up with how anybody plays.  Just because I play differently doesn't mean I don't play to win.  And I plan to win.  I'll face you first.

Quote from: Cogs on December 14, 2008, 03:51:47 PM
itt; Tibar and tollhouse both have no idea what they are talking about.

I'll be blunt: No one gives a s*** about what you two think. We don't need some dumbass scrub opinion about how this game "should" be played. If we all wanted to be nice little pussnuggets, we would be f***ing play time with items on high using the wiimote. But no, we play this game to win. It can be a friendly match, sure, whatever. But it's still about winning. And any time it isn't about winning, doesn't matter AT ALL for this tier list, and anything related to high level smash. So please, if you want to try and argue anything at all about what you think, please don't be so dang retarded about it and use some real logic.

also get a f***ing router so we can all rape you online using our "cheap" tactics.
Finally, sorry for coming off harsh. It's just I'm sick of dumb stuff like this.

if everyone here is always going to only have one opinion and shun anyone who thinks differently than I'll just go to a forum that has a place for people who know there's more to this game than spamming and chaingrabing.

I made a point on what I think and apparently I had no logic and was retarded. But I do have logic. Honestly, I'm pretty sure Sakurai didn't make this game just to see people become "professional" and use a small handful of characters and spam with them and call it fun. If he agreed with that concept there would've been no point in making a 35 roster. Sakurai obviously isn't a supporter of spamming, since he put tripping in the game to reduce it. Given the prievious evidence, this game isn't meant to have been played the way you guys play it.

"Oooh. look at me. I can use Falco's blaster for 10 minutes and then spam the C-stick to KO. I can spam the waddle dees with Dedede even better now. that makes me special." No thank you. People who are special or talented take a character and train brutally with them and don't give up and win the right way. Its possible.

Alright. Here's the bottom line. The only reason people want to ban Meta Knight from tournaments is because he has "remarkable spam potential," infinite cape, etc. If you play competively in tournaments then you spam and do the same kinds of things. So technically you're part of the problem. Therefore anyone who plays competively in tournaments doesn't have the right to complain about Meta Knight. Because of that he should not be banned.

BTW I play to win I'm very competive. But at the same time I have fun. There's nothing wrong or negative about that.

Quoteif everyone here is always going to only have one opinion and shun anyone who thinks differently than I'll just go to a forum that has a place for people who know there's more to this game than spamming and chaingrabing.

On NSFCD, we pride ourselves on the fact that we accept multiple opinions. But we also heavily stress that we don't accept dumb and incorrect opinions. Yes, opinions can be incorrect, so you can't try and make a dumb point on it. We also enjoy something more than spamming and cging. We enjoy winning. Both of those can help with the winning part, so we do them. And if you don't want to do it just to play "fair" have fun getting your ass kicked over and over until you learn to do it yourself.

QuoteI made a point on what I think and apparently I had no logic and was retarded.

Yes, you had no logic and it was retarded

QuoteBut I do have logic.

You should check your sources on that

QuoteHonestly, I'm pretty sure Sakurai didn't make this game just to see people become "professional" and use a small handful of characters and spam with them and call it fun. ... Sakurai obviously isn't a supporter of spamming, since he put tripping in the game to reduce it. Given the prievious evidence, this game isn't meant to have been played the way you guys play it.

If we were playing this game "how sakurai intended it", we would be playing time matches with all items on high on Big Blue. Do you play like that? If you answer yes, then that goes back to my point about how you aren't competitive, and you shouldn't even be in this argument. If you answered no, then you can't yell at us for "not playing how the game was made" and that blows that entire portion of your argument.

QuoteIf he agreed with that concept there would've been no point in making a 35 roster.

The thing about that is almost no developer can predict and control the metagame (as of now, David Sirlin is the only exception). Sakurai had no idea he made mk so good, that he made falcon so bad, that he made so many dumb, useless, or absolutely genius things. None of that is in his mind. If he truly didn't want that stuff, and it was a very important thing for him, he would have fixed it up and not just let it go. Wavedashing and L-canceling were MEANT to be in Melee. Neither were accidents. Wavedashing was a fix for a glitch caused by airdodging into the ground, and l-canceling was programmed purposely.

Quote"Oooh. look at me. I can use Falco's blaster for 10 minutes and then spam the C-stick to KO. I can spam the waddle dees with Dedede even better now. that makes me special." No thank you. People who are special or talented take a character and train brutally with them and don't give up and win the right way. Its possible.

People who are talented at smash do what they need to to win. That's how they win tournaments. If they need to spam to do it, by darn they'll do it. They don't have weak barriers that you are creating in your mind about how the game should be played. They will develop there strategy to the best they can, no matter what it takes, even if it's 90% spamming. Those people usually get their asses kicked by the people who know how to play the game good though, and don't spam because they have better options.

QuoteAlright. Here's the bottom line. The only reason people want to ban Meta Knight from tournaments is because he has "remarkable spam potential," infinite cape, etc.

That's not the reason at all, dumbpoop! D.I.C.K is banned from tourneys, so it doesn't affect anything, and spammers get raped in tournaments cause good players are smart and can punish it easy mode. I'm sorry you don't know how to shield, but good players do.

QuoteIf you play competively in tournaments then you spam

Not all good players spam. Look at any vid of m2k on youtube, the best mk in the world. Can you honestly call that "spamming"?

Quoteand do the same kinds of things. So technically you're part of the problem.

There is no problem with cging. Get the intercourse  over it, you vagina-y.

QuoteTherefore anyone who plays competively in tournaments doesn't have the right to complain about Meta Knight. Because of that he should not be banned.

People have all the right in the world because he's darn good! When you have an advantage over every character in the game, it's a decent reason to get banned. Any reason you say is not part of it at all, so stop trying.

QuoteBTW I play to win I'm very competive. But at the same time I have fun. There's nothing wrong or negative about that.

You aren't playing to win if you aren't doing everything in your power to win. (See: Playing to win, a book by David Sirlin that you can read online for free. (http://www.sirlin.net/ptw) I suggest you read the entire intermediate section of the guide, starting with "Introducing . . . The scrub") And don't say you can't have fun spamming. As I went over earlier in the guide, winning is fun. Raping your opponent is fun. Last I checked, losing is usually less fun that winning.

You know, I'm sure most pro's play more creatively than you guys do.
Hell, I probably do.

Priding yourself on being different from someone else is kind of an awkward statement. No one spams all the time, and I'm sure no one has ever not spammed. For Example:
With Diddy, I mildly spam and strategically use bananas to my advantage.
With Ness, I focus on the air and rarely use PK Fire, a commonly spammed move.

It depends on the situation, and if spamming a projectile or move will benefit you in the match, hell if ANY tactic witll benefit you, it doesn't make sense not to use them to the best of your ability.

~

And if pros caused the problem of MK's ban coming into question, at least they tried to do something about it.
(Then again... if this effects pros and not us anyway, whats the fuss?)
With the ban optional, it will still be necessary to either pick up MK or plot to defeat him.

Its not like people are going to stop playing because they have to fight MK every once in a while (well... more often than that D:)

Just look at NinjaLink and Azen.
They play pretty darn good with a variety of characters (NL focusing on Diddy, and Azen focusing on Lucario to the best of my knowledge)
So its not like MK has invaded every reach of smash play. Just chill out and realize there is no way you can judge how others play. D:

Quote from: tibar21 on December 15, 2008, 08:08:21 AM
if everyone here is always going to only have one opinion and shun anyone who thinks differently than I'll just go to a forum that has a place for people who know there's more to this game than spamming and chaingrabing.

Please, please do.

No player that truly calls himself good just spams all the time. Zen's Wolf doesn't spam yet it is godly although he does spam a bit with Falco.

Spamming is fine when used in moderation. That's the way I see it anyways.

Banning characters is just...lame though.

Quote from: Zero on December 15, 2008, 06:11:50 PM
Spamming is fine when used in moderation. That's the way I see it anyways.

Banning characters is just...lame though.

I agree, I think banning is lame as well, if it is there, then let it stay there.

Hmm, maybe they are banning him to give everybody a Fair chance....
and not use a character (MK) that seems to have ever single advantage of the other roster.

Cause everybody who plays uses/will use MK because of his advantage.

It may be stupid what they are trying to do, but I Understand their logic behind it.

-_-

* I mean, it would be boring to see MK, vs MK, vs MK, vs MK over and over again...

Thats not really entertaining (to a point), I'd rather see other characters fight eachother.
I also think thats their point in banning MK.

Quote from: JrDude on December 15, 2008, 05:08:18 PM

Quote from: tibar21 on December 15, 2008, 08:08:21 AM
if everyone here is always going to only have one opinion and shun anyone who thinks differently than I'll just go to a forum that has a place for people who know there's more to this game than spamming and chaingrabing.

Please, please do.

ya know, just for the reason you said that i'll still go here. And really, what Dawei said about what I said was a bunch of bull that lacked logic. I'm not even going to argue with him anymore because he'll just give me more bull. no offense.

Quote from: tibar21 on December 16, 2008, 01:18:37 PM

Quote from: JrDude on December 15, 2008, 05:08:18 PM

Quote from: tibar21 on December 15, 2008, 08:08:21 AM
if everyone here is always going to only have one opinion and shun anyone who thinks differently than I'll just go to a forum that has a place for people who know there's more to this game than spamming and chaingrabing.

Please, please do.

ya know, just for the reason you said that i'll still go here. And really, what Cogs said about what I said was a bunch of bull that lacked logic. I'm not even going to argue with him anymore because he'll just give me more bull. no offense.

We still play to win, but i don't care if someone else thinks differently and would go easy on a 9 year old girl who has never played the game.

Quote from: tibar21 on December 16, 2008, 01:18:37 PM

Quote from: JrDude on December 15, 2008, 05:08:18 PM

Quote from: tibar21 on December 15, 2008, 08:08:21 AM
if everyone here is always going to only have one opinion and shun anyone who thinks differently than I'll just go to a forum that has a place for people who know there's more to this game than spamming and chaingrabing.

Please, please do.

ya know, just for the reason you said that i'll still go here. And really, what Dawei said about what I said was a bunch of bull that lacked logic. I'm not even going to argue with him anymore because he'll just give me more bull. no offense.

No, come on. I respond to your mindless babble, it would be very disrespectful not to respond to what I write.

Quote from: HTA on December 15, 2008, 04:41:11 PM
You know, I'm sure most pro's play more creatively than you guys do.
Hell, I probably do.

Priding yourself on being different from someone else is kind of an awkward statement. No one spams all the time, and I'm sure no one has ever not spammed. For Example:
With Diddy, I mildly spam and strategically use bananas to my advantage.
With Ness, I focus on the air and rarely use PK Fire, a commonly spammed move.

It depends on the situation, and if spamming a projectile or move will benefit you in the match, hell if ANY tactic witll benefit you, it doesn't make sense not to use them to the best of your ability.

~

And if pros caused the problem of MK's ban coming into question, at least they tried to do something about it.
(Then again... if this effects pros and not us anyway, whats the fuss?)
With the ban optional, it will still be necessary to either pick up MK or plot to defeat him.

Its not like people are going to stop playing because they have to fight MK every once in a while (well... more often than that D:)

Just look at NinjaLink and Azen.
They play pretty dang good with a variety of characters (NL focusing on Diddy, and Azen focusing on Lucario to the best of my knowledge)
So its not like MK has invaded every reach of smash play. Just chill out and realize there is no way you can judge how others play. D:

Same with me.
That's his golden key to victory.
Not his only one, but his main tactic.

Quote from: tibar21 on December 16, 2008, 01:18:37 PM

Quote from: JrDude on December 15, 2008, 05:08:18 PM

Quote from: tibar21 on December 15, 2008, 08:08:21 AM
if everyone here is always going to only have one opinion and shun anyone who thinks differently than I'll just go to a forum that has a place for people who know there's more to this game than spamming and chaingrabing.

Please, please do.

ya know, just for the reason you said that i'll still go here. And really, what Dawei said about what I said was a bunch of bull that lacked logic. I'm not even going to argue with him anymore because he'll just give me more bull. no offense.

Excuses, I had no effect on why you're staying.
And arguing is fun, especially with idiots, don't take that away from Dawei.

Wow, tibar.  Just wow.  M2k is like my idol.  I hope to have my meta knight be like his some day.  that'd be effing sweet. 

Tollhouse, make your brother respond to me. I want more fun.

(also, if you have a video camera, record you two playing. I just want to see a demonstration of exactly "how the game should be played")

Quote from: Dawei on December 16, 2008, 06:32:20 PM
Tollhouse, make your brother respond to me. I want more fun.

(also, if you have a video camera, record you two playing. I just want to see a demonstration of exactly "how the game should be played")

I don't have a video camera soooo...  And also he's not around at the moment

You should get one/borrow one. Or get a blank DVD and record like that.

Well tell him to do it when he comes home. And try what JrDude said.

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on December 16, 2008, 06:43:24 PM

Quote from: Dawei on December 16, 2008, 06:32:20 PM
Tollhouse, make your brother respond to me. I want more fun.

(also, if you have a video camera, record you two playing. I just want to see a demonstration of exactly "how the game should be played")

I don't have a video camera soooo...  And also he's not around at the moment

Is this some joke?  Why'd you change the title.  The arguement is over and you both got your points across.  And even if I did have a camera I wouldn't upload a video because the first time you will see me play is when I face you.  I don't show off anyway.

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on December 16, 2008, 06:49:40 PM

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on December 16, 2008, 06:43:24 PM

Quote from: Dawei on December 16, 2008, 06:32:20 PM
Tollhouse, make your brother respond to me. I want more fun.

(also, if you have a video camera, record you two playing. I just want to see a demonstration of exactly "how the game should be played")

I don't have a video camera soooo...  And also he's not around at the moment

Is this some joke?  Why'd you change the title.  The arguement is over and you both got your points across.  And even if I did have a camera I wouldn't upload a video because the first time you will see me play is when I face you.  I don't show off anyway.

I suddenly got the feeling that you both suck and know it o.o

Quote from: JrDude on December 16, 2008, 06:50:54 PM

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on December 16, 2008, 06:49:40 PM

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on December 16, 2008, 06:43:24 PM

Quote from: Dawei on December 16, 2008, 06:32:20 PM
Tollhouse, make your brother respond to me. I want more fun.

(also, if you have a video camera, record you two playing. I just want to see a demonstration of exactly "how the game should be played")

I don't have a video camera soooo...  And also he's not around at the moment

Is this some joke?  Why'd you change the title.  The arguement is over and you both got your points across.  And even if I did have a camera I wouldn't upload a video because the first time you will see me play is when I face you.  I don't show off anyway.

I suddenly got the feeling that you both suck and know it o.o

You can think that if you want.  Your thoughts don't matter to me.

lol

Video games. Serious business

Quote from: Zero on December 16, 2008, 06:53:24 PM
lol

Video games. Serious business

I know, right.  This is ridiculous.

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on December 16, 2008, 06:52:47 PM

Quote from: JrDude on December 16, 2008, 06:50:54 PM

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on December 16, 2008, 06:49:40 PM

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on December 16, 2008, 06:43:24 PM

Quote from: Dawei on December 16, 2008, 06:32:20 PM
Tollhouse, make your brother respond to me. I want more fun.

(also, if you have a video camera, record you two playing. I just want to see a demonstration of exactly "how the game should be played")

I don't have a video camera soooo...  And also he's not around at the moment

Is this some joke?  Why'd you change the title.  The arguement is over and you both got your points across.  And even if I did have a camera I wouldn't upload a video because the first time you will see me play is when I face you.  I don't show off anyway.

I suddenly got the feeling that you both suck and know it o.o

You can think that if you want.  Your thoughts don't matter to me.

Good job! If you're telling the truth that you don't care that is. Most people//internerds are a buch of pussies.
*Back on topic*

I changed the topic because as of now, me and Tibar are still arguing over it. Unless he feels like saying I win the argument, it wouldn't be a good time to stop.

Do you know exactly when you are getting the router? I don't want to wait too long. :P

Quote from: Dawei on December 16, 2008, 06:55:43 PM
I changed the topic because as of now, me and Tibar are still arguing over it. Unless he feels like saying I win the argument, it wouldn't be a good time to stop.

Do you know exactly when you are getting the router? I don't want to wait too long. :P

Let's just say I might face you a little after christmas.  I haven't played Tibar in over a week due to his health so I'm kind of rusty right now.  So we'll need some time, I guess.  I'm sure you want to face him first, correct?

I don't care who I face first, really. As long as I can test the lag and the first match isn't taken seriously, I'm fine. Anyway, since this is off topic, if you have anything else to say send it through pm. We need to get back to the current debate right now.

Quote from: Dawei on December 16, 2008, 07:01:01 PM
I don't care who I face first, really. As long as I can test the lag and the first match isn't taken seriously, I'm fine. Anyway, since this is off topic, if you have anything else to say send it through pm. We need to get back to the current debate right now.

Very well than.  I believe you were talking about meta knight being banned in some tournaments.

I just, "LOVE", how everybody Ignores my most Obvious answer/logic to why MK is BANNED'ED  :robotangry:

Makes me feel all Nice and appreciative!  :robotangry:

Star= Getting angry.

Watch out!

Quote from: StarWindWizard7 on December 16, 2008, 11:24:10 PM
I just, "LOVE", how everybody Ignores my most Obvious answer/logic to why MK is BANNED'ED  :robotangry:

Makes me feel all Nice and appreciative!  :robotangry:

Star= Getting angry.

Watch out!

...I'm pretty sure they don't care.

Quote from: StarWindWizard7 on December 16, 2008, 11:24:10 PM
I just, "LOVE", how everybody Ignores my most Obvious answer/logic to why MK is BANNED'ED  :robotangry:

Makes me feel all Nice and appreciative!  :robotangry:

Star= Getting angry.

Watch out!

I just have nothing to add.
I think your right.

Quote from: wiiboychris on December 17, 2008, 12:04:56 AM

Quote from: StarWindWizard7 on December 16, 2008, 11:24:10 PM
I just, "LOVE", how everybody Ignores my most Obvious answer/logic to why MK is BANNED'ED  :robotangry:

Makes me feel all Nice and appreciative!  :robotangry:

Star= Getting angry.

Watch out!

...I'm pretty sure they don't care.

Probably :P

Thank you HTA

I like the addition to the title playat.

Quote from: Mutilator7 on December 17, 2008, 01:57:17 PM
I like the addition to the title playat.

Playat hasn't EVEN changed the title, Dawei did. :D

Quote from: StarWindWizard7 on December 16, 2008, 11:24:10 PM
I just, "LOVE", how everybody Ignores my most Obvious answer/logic to why MK is BANNED'ED  :robotangry:

Makes me feel all Nice and appreciative!  :robotangry:

Star= Getting angry.

Watch out!

LOL.
I read it and agree with you Star.
That's most likely the only reason I can really see being the real reason. :P