MK Banned? Now featuring: Arguements about competitive play.

[Nayrman]

I would agree that meta knight is broken, but only because of the infinite cape and how all his arials have prioty over the other guy's moves. I learned the hard way when I attempted to spike Tollhouse's meta knight offstage with Falco.

Infinite cape is banned, so it doesn't count.

still, the ariels are a bigger deal than the infinite cape anyway. I kinda got mad when Meta Knight got all those quick rapid broken arials and they nerf Jigglypuff's wall of pain. doesn't make sense. But today when I played melee I realized they really improved the problems with characters being broken. In Brawl I'd say the broken characters to top the charts are Meta  Knight, Ike, Snake, Pit, and maybe Fox.

You added a lot of unneeded characters, so I crossed them out. And Melee is way more balanced than Brawl.

Actually Snake can still be considered broken, just not as much as Metaknight.

No, cause he has bad matchups. Meta knight has none.

He can't be considered broken AT ALL because of the fact that he has poor matchups.

So I guess it would be considered that he merely has advantages instead of broken-ness?

The point of a balanced roster is that there IS A CHARACTER can have a good match-up against MK.
Their isn't.
Therefore, he is broken.

I was talking about Snake X_X;;
Trust me I think metaknight is hte most broken character in the history of the series

[HTA!]

Snake isn't broken really, he does have some match-ups that will cause even the best problems...

And by now, if you play Brawl I'm almost certain you need to have a back-up plan or main multiple characters.
With Snake, this lets you adjust.
MK does not afford any versatility, there is simply no good approach...

[tibar21]

no one's gonna agree with this, but in my experience Lucas has been a bad matchup for Meta Knight not because he's my main, but when Two players with the same skill level face eachother Lucas has the upperhand.

If metaknight uses his side B straight at a you a good Lucas player could time their side smash just right so that he hits Meta Knight like a baseball pitch.

Also if Lucas got knocked up way in the air off the stage like at Final Dest, chances are the Meta Knight would jump off the stage to hit Lucas  with a side ariel. Lucas could easily counter this by fast falling so he got below Meta Knight and then hit himself with the thunder in Meta Knight's direction(or if Meta Knight was too far from the stage just have Lucas get on the stage. after Lucas's boost from hitting himself from the thunder ends he still can go a long way in a side direction)
And if you don't want to take that approach just use Lucas's side ariel to clash with Meta Knight in the air. Lucas has a very powerful side arial with slightly more range than that of Meta Knight's.

And when Meta Knight  uses his tornado Lucas could give him a quick PK freeze. After the PK freeze is released it has a very wide range. And even if the PK freeze doesn't hit Meta Knight it probably will still make him retraet his attack which might leave him vulnarable to a PK fire, a running A attack, or maybe even another PK freeze.

The bottom line is that Meta Knigh's big weakness I found were projectiles that you can control.
Characters that would probably give Meta Knight a good matchup would be Lucas, Ness, or Zelda. No one else would come to mind though.

[HTA!]

Lol.

Lucas + Ness = Failure.
Infinite Grab Release would destroy them (although I don't remember if MK can do it... I pretty sure everyone can though.)

MK out prioritizes almost all of their moves.
PK freeze more or less leaves you open, and an experienced MK will not fall for it.
Ever.

Playing off the edge with MK is stupid.
Its basically the number one "don't try this" on the MK match-up list. He dominates the air, its just not possible.
And really, the range is not the problem. He is just too fast and too agile for it too work

Snake or Game and Watch are your best bets, strong ground game is key.
Plus G & W has a couple tricks in the air to catch MK off guard, not enough to make it a good match-up but enough to give you a chance.

[Ridley]

Lol.

Lucas + Ness = Failure.
Infinite Grab Release would destroy them (although I don't remember if MK can do it... I pretty sure everyone can though.)

MK out prioritizes almost all of their moves.
PK freeze more or less leaves you open, and an experienced MK will not fall for it.
Ever.

Playing off the edge with MK is stupid.
Its basically the number one "don't try this" on the MK match-up list. He dominates the air, its just not possible.
And really, the range is not the problem. He is just too fast and too agile for it too work

Snake or Game and Watch are your best bets, strong ground game is key.
Plus G & W has a couple tricks in the air to catch MK off guard, not enough to make it a good match-up but enough to give you a chance.

I like to play in the air with Rob. You are able to fly farther than he is if played right.

[Dawei]

Lol.

Lucas + Ness = Failure.
Infinite Grab Release would destroy them (although I don't remember if MK can do it... I pretty sure everyone can though.)

MK out prioritizes almost all of their moves.
PK freeze more or less leaves you open, and an experienced MK will not fall for it.
Ever.

Playing off the edge with MK is stupid.
Its basically the number one "don't try this" on the MK match-up list. He dominates the air, its just not possible.
And really, the range is not the problem. He is just too fast and too agile for it too work

Snake or Game and Watch are your best bets, strong ground game is key.
Plus G & W has a couple tricks in the air to catch MK off guard, not enough to make it a good match-up but enough to give you a chance.

Not GW. M2k is too good.

Tibar, that has to be one of the funniest posts I have ever read. Everything you said about the mk doing is... hilarious. Please, get wifi. Do it.

[StarWindWizard7]

I happen to agree with HTA and Dave on This point alone.

An Ace (best MK user) will Always tell  what kind of attacks the other person may do.
Either to recover Or to Counter.

an Ace MK user knows ALL the other characters strengths and weaknesses.

For example...

Lucas, depending on where he is and what he does... The MK user can Always adjust and "ANTICIPATE" what Lucas Could do there for countering it.

When Lucas uses his "PK Thunder" to recover from off the stage, sure, Lucas is powerful as he moves, but once that momentum is done, Lucas is vulnerable, and thats when MK can strike.

As I said, Anticipation and knowing the oppenents recoveries/vulnerabilities etc is Key.
Any good Smasher would/should know this.

Whether you  main as a lot of characters or not, every recovery has a weakness to a point where it can be countered.

All your sayings about how Lucas can counter MK, well that may be true for the 1st few tries when the match 1st starts, but an Ace MK user Will "NOT" make the same mistakes 2-3 times, trust me.
-_-


It may work out in Lucas favor, but as the match progresses, an Ace MK user will adjust and figure out the other persons play style and more then likely dominate, seeing as MK's attributes honestly are better then anybody elses....

Which Sucks!
:(

[Macawmoses]

To be fair, an ace for any character will do all of that to their fullest.

[StarWindWizard7]

To be fair, an ace for any character will do all of that to their fullest.

Even still, MK seems/tends to always have the advantage.

He is a master of air attacks, so before the other character can recover, or After that character recovers he can strike.

I hope it sounds like I'm not complaining.

[tibar21]

Lol.

Lucas + Ness = Failure.
Infinite Grab Release would destroy them (although I don't remember if MK can do it... I pretty sure everyone can though.)

MK out prioritizes almost all of their moves.
PK freeze more or less leaves you open, and an experienced MK will not fall for it.
Ever.

Playing off the edge with MK is stupid.
Its basically the number one "don't try this" on the MK match-up list. He dominates the air, its just not possible.
And really, the range is not the problem. He is just too fast and too agile for it too work

Snake or Game and Watch are your best bets, strong ground game is key.
Plus G & W has a couple tricks in the air to catch MK off guard, not enough to make it a good match-up but enough to give you a chance.

Not GW. M2k is too good.

Tibar, that has to be one of the funniest posts I have ever read. Everything you said about the mk doing is... hilarious. Please, get wifi. Do it.

i'm not gonna argue, but you would have to see my play with Lucas against Tollhouse's Meta Knight to understand what I mean.

[HTA!]

No we don't seeing as we are talking about pro level play here.  ::)

[Dawei]

Lol.

Lucas + Ness = Failure.
Infinite Grab Release would destroy them (although I don't remember if MK can do it... I pretty sure everyone can though.)

MK out prioritizes almost all of their moves.
PK freeze more or less leaves you open, and an experienced MK will not fall for it.
Ever.

Playing off the edge with MK is stupid.
Its basically the number one "don't try this" on the MK match-up list. He dominates the air, its just not possible.
And really, the range is not the problem. He is just too fast and too agile for it too work

Snake or Game and Watch are your best bets, strong ground game is key.
Plus G & W has a couple tricks in the air to catch MK off guard, not enough to make it a good match-up but enough to give you a chance.

Not GW. M2k is too good.

Tibar, that has to be one of the funniest posts I have ever read. Everything you said about the mk doing is... hilarious. Please, get wifi. Do it.

i'm not gonna argue, but you would have to see my play with Lucas against Tollhouse's Meta Knight to understand what I mean.

I'm very willing to get I have a better MK than tollhouse. What you are describing wouldn't work on a good mk.

[Macawmoses]

Well, yeah, Star. He has what, at worst a 55% win spread?

[StarWindWizard7]

Well, yeah, Star. He has what, at worst a 55% win spread?

Probably so.

MK's Up B attack can KO anybody at that percentage just about.

Who has the best MK on This board?

:O

[Ridley]

Well, yeah, Star. He has what, at worst a 55% win spread?

Probably so.

MK's Up B attack can KO anybody at that percentage just about.

Who has the best MK on This board?

:O

It would be between Playat and Dawei, I'm guessing.