New clones wanted?

[Nayrman]

I mostly consider clones via B-moves and smashes. N-air's, side A's, etc. are always commonplace, even in traditional fighting games you see stuff like that. You know that HTA.
I find it difficult to understand the comparison of Link and Samus, as while they're both "bombs", "spinning up B's" etc., they work incredibly differently in terms of visual design, use, etc.
Meanwhile, things like Fox and Falco's down B, while different and have different uses in their metagame, the original intent and visual design says they're end result is meant to be exactly the same in terms of combat. To reflect things.

[HTA!]

Last post.
I'm not being serious Nayr.  :P

Anyway, yes I know how we define clones, and how moves differ.
I just don't feel clones are such terrible things.

This is reminding me of Old Smash Board a little. D:

[Nayrman]

Last post.
I'm not being serious Nayr.  :P

Anyway, yes I know how we define clones, and how moves differ.
I just don't feel clones are such terrible things.

This is reminding me of Old Smash Board a little. D:

While the utterly pointless argument does remind me of the old smash board, at least we're having a reasonably well thought out argument about it, compared to the Oldsider board of "Nook's gonna be in Brawl!" "Nuh uh!" "Yea so!" and the like X_X;;
Admittedly, it could be worse, I just feel that if Sakurai and the development team have this much time and money to build the Subspace Emissary, they could've at least gone through and eliminated clones altogether. It's not like it's terribly difficult. It just feels lazy and unsatisfying. As I've said, only Toon/Young Link makes sense, since him and Link are essentially the same person X_X;; Ganondorf, Falco, Wolf, Lucas, etc. could've easily been de-cloned, but they're not because despite having plenty to go off of, Sakurai just got lazy.

[HTA!]

I miss Docter Mario, by the way.
Would love to see him as an alternate costume at least.

Let me pose that question.
Would you rather have clones as alternate costumes rather than individual characters?

For some it would not work.
However, Docter Mario and Mario would work.
Would you rather Falco and Fox have identical move sets, but are simply different costumes?

[Captain Justice]

oh ho ho silly Nayr " I just feel that if Sakurai and the development team have this much time and money to build the Subspace Emissary, they could've at least gone through and eliminated clones altogether"

Why work on clones when SSE is clearly the most important thing in Brawl?....I mean Brawl IS all about the multiplayer, so it only makes sense to put that much time and effort into a 1P mode that has no plot and is incredibly bland and repetitive. In fact, why work on any of the other great 1P modes that were in Melee, nobody really wanted more event matches anyways, plus BtT and HRC were boring so no need to work on those.....right?

yeah intercourse  the SSE...... its pretty much the main reason Brawl sucks.....Plus I remember someone saying, about a year a go I think, that SSE cut scenes take up about......oh half of the disc space......theres the room for all your precious new characters.
/rant

But back to clones......all the "clones" play so incredibly different then the originas that they shouldn't be called clones. Moves may look similar but they behave very differently. the only exception to this is Doctor M.....you have a legit reason to ninny about him lol.

[Nayrman]

I miss Docter Mario, by the way.
Would love to see him as an alternate costume at least.

Let me pose that question.
Would you rather have clones as alternate costumes rather than individual characters?

For some it would not work.
However, Docter Mario and Mario would work.
Would you rather Falco and Fox have identical move sets, but are simply different costumes?

Doc Mario should totally be a separate costume. There is absolutely no need for two Mario's running around in the game. But separate costume, totally.

Would I rather have clones as alt. costumes? It depends on the character. Falco/Wolf could totally be alt. costumes of Fox with a simple voice change. All three have similar "body structures" and physical traits and they are all in the same series. If it weren't for Falco's jump and slower running speed, him and Fox would've been blatantly alt. costumes of each other in Melee. Same goes for someone like Lucas. Not saying they couldn't be de-cloned, but if they're going to remain obvious clones it would be better to make them a palette swap with a voice change and give the roster spot to a more original character who is equally deserving. (ex. How is Samurai Goroh any less deserving than Wolf? Especially since Star Fox already had a second rep. and only has one more game in the series than F-Zero does? Just as an example though).
However, guys like Ganondorf who are totally separate characters with completely separate series, use in said series, moves in said series, etc. should be original characters.

[Nayrman]

But back to clones......all the "clones" play so incredibly different then the originas that they shouldn't be called clones. Moves may look similar but they behave very differently. the only exception to this is Doctor M.....you have a legit reason to b**** about him lol.

It really doesn't matter that they play "differently", if the B-moves/final smashes are essentially the same thing with intent to act similar, they're clones. All of the Fox character's down B's are reflector shields designed to reflect things. All their side B's are "warp" moves to move about the course. All their final smashes are Landmasters. It's frankly unoriginal and lazy when with even the slightest bit of imagination could've given them completely unique moves instead of the same thing.
This isn't the only fighting game I have issues with. It's the same reason I don't like Heihachi/Kazuya Mishima in Tekken, and was happy Jin changed fighting style. The list goes on for pretty much every other fighting game. In fact, the only fighting game I can think of where every "character" has their own unique special moves are the Jump Stars games, only because it's anime/manga and every character already has at least 4+ moves that could easily be unique per character.

[Neerb]

In terms of the clones we have now, I'm really only ticked off about Ganondorf.  Granted, every one of them COULD have different moves (and in every fan's opinion SHOULD), but many sorta make sense.  I mean Link and Toon Link are pretty obvious, and why would Fox, Falco, and Wolf be different in SSBB if they aren't exactly that different in their own games?  And Lucas... well, quite frankly I know nothing of Mother.  Ganondorf, however, is absolute nonsense.  Not a single move he uses in Smash is a move from his own games (except for his FS), he's the only clone to be copied from a character of another series, and as if to add insult to injury, that character himself doesn't use those moves in his games either!!!

[DededeCloneChris]

All in all, we don't have clones but a bunch of Luigified characters.

[Nayrman]

All in all, we don't have clones but a bunch of Luigified characters.

Ganondorf, Lucas, and the Spacey's are clones X_X;;

[JrDude]

Speaking of "Luigified," I just noticed that PT is basically Luigified when it comes to B moves.
Squirtle's B = Mario's Down B
Ivysaur's Up B = ZSSamus' Up B
Charizard's B = Bowser's B
Pok?mon Trainer's Down B = Zelda/Sheik's Down B

Just pointing that out.

Another thing, for a long time, I didn't know what you guys meant when you said "clones."

[Captain Justice]

Ganondorf, Lucas, and the Spacey's are clones X_X;;

lololol not even close. In Melee they had move that were somewhat similar......but in Brawl they are all 100% different.

and I just got a Swag buck for searching clones :]

[Nayrman]

lololol not even close. In Melee they had move that were somewhat similar......but in Brawl they are all 100% different.

and I just got a Swag buck for searching clones :]

How are they different? All of the spacey's B's are blasters, down B's are reflectors, etc.
Sure, Ryu and Ken are different characters and play differently, but when they're both using the Soryuuken or the Hadoken, they're both using the same move. The same move is the same move. And since those (Fox/Falco/Wolf, Ness/Lucas, etc.) characters have an abundance of the same moves, I consider them clones.

[Neerb]

lololol not even close. In Melee they had move that were somewhat similar......but in Brawl they are all 100% different.

and I just got a Swag buck for searching clones :]

Did... did you actually read this whole thread?  Or even play Brawl?  Cause saying "100% different" greatly implies that you didn't.

[Captain Justice]

Sadly yes I have played Brawl.

Now for the love of God how can you possibly think the moves are the same? Go play Brawl right now and with Fox, Falco, and Wolf go test the moves. Unless the blaster looks the same, acts the same, and does the exact same amount of damage then they aren't intercourse ing clones. Same applies for all of the moves....with all the clones. Not a single one of the specials is EXACTLY the same.....so its not a darn clone. Now do this for all the "clones" and you will see that none of them are the same move.