The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

[Doodle]

Linearity=/=Bad

This constant need gamers today have for "openness" is just flat out amusing.

j/s

I know. :U
In Zelda's case, it kind of strips the game of any exploration, though. So it becomes one huge obstacle course, which is more suited to Mario, etc.

[Kayo]

I know. :U
In Zelda's case, it kind of strips the game of any exploration, though. So it becomes one huge obstacle course, which is more suited to Mario, etc.

Pretty much. There's none of those optional areas you can find off to the side or anything like that. It kind of changes the mood of the game quite a bit too.

[Zero]

All of you are forgetting an earlier point I made though.

Every 3D Zelda only gives you an illusion of non-linearity/freedom to begin with. Each 3D game has basically been a huge "obstacle course" anyway. What makes Majora's Mask or Ocarina of Time non-linear? The fact that you have a central HUB?

A central HUB(which SS has anyway in Skyloft), doesn't make a game non-linear. There is still a set path for you to ultimately take throughout each game and trying to differ from the path results in you not progressing at all. OoT's glitches notwithstanding.

I need to ask you all what is there to explore in Ocarina of Time or Majora's Mask? Twilight Princess? Pretty much just the central HUB, which doesn't really have much to it in each game. At least in Wind Waker the illusion was really convincing. The world felt huge, and you felt like a badass traversing it. There were optional islands, but they didn't have much at all to them.

I think you're all kidding yourselves as to what Zelda even is in the first place.

[The Riddler]

All of you are forgetting an earlier point I made though.

Every 3D Zelda only gives you an illusion of non-linearity/freedom to begin with. Each 3D game has basically been a huge "obstacle course" anyway. What makes Majora's Mask or Ocarina of Time non-linear? The fact that you have a central HUB?

A central HUB(which SS has anyway in Skyloft), doesn't make a game non-linear. There is still a set path for you to ultimately take throughout each game and trying to differ from the path results in you not progressing at all. OoT's glitches notwithstanding.

I need to ask you all what is there to explore in Ocarina of Time or Majora's Mask? Twilight Princess? Pretty much just the central HUB, which doesn't really have much to it in each game. At least in Wind Waker the illusion was really convincing. The world felt huge, and you felt like a badass traversing it. There were optional islands, but they didn't have much at all to them.

I think you're all kidding yourselves as to what Zelda even is in the first place.

Windwaker didn't give me that illusion at all due to how small each island actually was.

[…]

Most Zelda games are pretty linear in how you advance through them. As it has its own storyline which is the main focus of the game, and a good amount of the area of the game world is blocked off until you obtain a certain item from the next dungeon in line to be beaten. And all of the dungeons are set up to be progressed through in a certain order, which in most Zelda games you can't do them out of order.

But it's probably just that in SS the game world is more sectioned off, or seems more sectioned off because the landmasses aren't really connected together where you can walk between them.

[zephilicious]

Every 3D Zelda only gives you an illusion of non-linearity/freedom to begin with. Each 3D game has basically been a huge "obstacle course" anyway. What makes Majora's Mask or Ocarina of Time non-linear? The fact that you have a central HUB?

that linearity is heavily encouraged but almost never enforced beyond the order items are collected, and only applies to dungeons. which before skyward sword were not the entire game.

[Zero]

that linearity is heavily encouraged but almost never enforced beyond the order items are collected, and only applies to dungeons. which before skyward sword were not the entire game.

The order items are collected are the ball and chain. 3D zelda has always been linear.

Skyward Sword's areas have tasks that need to be accomplished in order to advance through the game. Past 3D Zelda non-dungeon areas have you running between key locations, and you don't decide which to go to anyway. Yeah, you can run around and find items(and that's it btw, there isn't much sense of exploration when the area is tiny), but you can do that as well in SS.

All SS did was throw the HUB in the sky and make you work more to get to the dungeon.

They're simple changes, but for most of you its a problem. I don't really see what's so bad about it.

[zephilicious]

i think the biggest problem with the linearity is that the story does nothing to imply that its necessary. in ocarina, every single dungeon is prefaced by some urgant situation that only you can resolve. you're not there to collect the next medallion. thats just a nice bonus you get after saving an entire species form imminent extinction.

skyward sword tries to do the same thing by having you chase zelda around. but after the first time you see her you know shes not in any real danger. so why the intercourse  am i doing this dungeon now? only because the game doesnt give me any other options.


But zelda has always been mostly linear even if it hid it better in the past. what's really missing is all the little things. the dozens of random caves, the collectibles worth collecting, the minigames that were fun rather than tedious timesinks, the sidequests that you feel good about accomplishing not because of the reward (which is probably worthless) but because you cared about the characters you were helping.


skyward sword has the essentials. but its missing the little pieces that turn a good action/adventure into a intercourse ing awesome zelda.

and then poopty controls turn that good, could have been great, game into an average game at best.

[Nayrman]

I do think you're forgetting the part in OoT where you could potentially do the Forest, Fire, and Water temples in more or less any order you want, Nintendo just screwed up that non-linearity by having Sheik tell you to go to the forest temple first even though there really is no reason to go that one first.

[Hero_of_Darkness]

I do think you're forgetting the part in OoT where you could potentially do the Forest, Fire, and Water temples in more or less any order you want, Nintendo just screwed up that non-linearity by having Sheik tell you to go to the forest temple first even though there really is no reason to go that one first.

Don't worry; they made up for that by doing the exact opposite in TP.

[Kayo]

I do think you're forgetting the part in OoT where you could potentially do the Forest, Fire, and Water temples in more or less any order you want, Nintendo just screwed up that non-linearity by having Sheik tell you to go to the forest temple first even though there really is no reason to go that one first.

Perhaps they included that as a "suggested path" so first-timers wouldn't get lost or confused? Also, the Forest Temple may be more beginner-suited, if only due to the fact that it didn't require a special tunic. Not that the other two were significantly more difficult, but whatever.

I know it also didn't matter whether you did the Spirit or Shadow temple first.

[Doodle]

I do think you're forgetting the part in OoT where you could potentially do the Forest, Fire, and Water temples in more or less any order you want, Nintendo just screwed up that non-linearity by having Sheik tell you to go to the forest temple first even though there really is no reason to go that one first.

It was so you would go for the hookshot, but if you've played it already then you obviously know where to find it anyway.

[Kayo]

It was so you would go for the hookshot, but if you've played it already then you obviously know where to find it anyway.

Hm, that makes sense, since you need the hookshot to even get in. But even on my first time playing I got it before going to the temple. Again, it's just a suggestion to help newcomers make their way through the game without getting lost or confused, which is actually a good idea.

[JrDude]

I probably had the game before all of you, and I just now beat it.

I think I got every single Heart Piece EXCEPT ONE on my own. With every heart piece and the 2 Life Medals, you get 2 full bars of hearts, right? I originally thought there would still be enough Heart Pieces to make 2 full rows, then suddenly 3rd row with the Life Medals. And I hope that's wrong because that would mean I missed 9 heart pieces, not just one.

I think I got every other item too. And upgraded them all to max. Not sure though, as I don't use guides on my first playthroughs, (even in-game ones like that lame Gossip Stone that appears at the beginning of the game).

There's still a spot on my Dowsing thing that never appeared though. Out of the new ones that happen after the Ship Dungeon, there was random collectible items, Goddess Cubes, Gratitude Crystals, and then one on the top left never appeared for me. Anyone mind telling me what it is and how to cause it to appear? (Some day, I shall use Hero Mode, and I want to get EVERYTHING)

Also, Beetle (after reading the beginning of the thread again, I'd like to mention this man is re-incarnated as well, not just Link, Zelda, and Tingle), He cheated me. I had already bought EVERYTHING from him, and he says "NEXT THING YOU BUY IS HALF OFF, SORRY OUT OF ITEMS, PLEASE CHECK THE OTHER ITEMS I HAVE FOR SELL."

And final boss? Epic as poop. I had only died 3 times (second time, I didn't realize I didn't have my fairies), which Girahim, I died SO many times, though I did have the challenge of REFUSING to go back to heal, so I had to beat him with 6 hearts, and a single fairy (12 hearts basically). While Demise, I healed myself to max and had TWO fairies every time. Though I would like to mention, when I beat him, I beat him with ONE HEART and used NO FAIRIES (I had 2, but none were used). I refused to have more than 2 fairies, so I filled my pouch with the upgraded carry things, both Life Medals, and Hylian Shield.

Also, I often said to myself, "Every good game needs a bad water level." But this game changed that, as it's water levels were short and not too and enjoyable in my opinion.

Think Fi will ever make an appearance again? I hated her robot sound when she talked, but I think it would be interesting since she's forever in the Master Sword.

Also, I never looked at this thread due to not wanting spoilers, so if I mentioned anything being discussed or something, my bad.

[Hero_of_Darkness]

I'm going to guess that your missing one it the one that detects hearts.