Tiers Exist. Fact.

[Jono2]

from what I've read. Don't items only exaggerate the tier list even more?  The only character that really benefits from it is Mewtwo.  Fox can reflect everything and pick up everything, so he moves from High tier to God tier.  Falco moves into Demi-god tier, and the characters that are fastest and can spam item throws move in behind them (Falcon, etc).

Is that right, or did I hear it wrong?

[Shujinco2]

from what I've read. Don't items only exaggerate the tier list even more?  The only character that really benefits from it is Mewtwo.  Fox can reflect everything and pick up everything, so he moves from High tier to God tier.  Falco moves into Demi-god tier, and the characters that are fastest and can spam item throws move in behind them (Falcon, etc).

Is that right, or did I hear it wrong?

Another thing is, items aren't cheap. If you are TRULY skilled, you would be able to win even WITH items! It shouldn't matter!

I'm better than ALL my friends WITH and WITHOUT iems! To me, I just need a different stratagy when dealing wih items then I do without them.

Simple as that!

[Jono2]

No, the thing is that items exaggerate the tier list.  Yeah, you should be able to play with items, but if pros play with items, it only makes the disparity between Fox, Falco and Falcon and the rest of the characters even bigger.

Which is why items aren't used, because they make the game even more unbalanced.  it's a balance issue, not a "items aren't fun, so let's not use them." issue.

exploding capsules also don't help.

[Tupin]

Just play as your favorite characters like I do.

I don't care at all about being famous by playing Smash. But tiers do exist, and that's a fact. Strengths and weaknesses were programmed into each character. But some people take Smash too seriously.

[Triforce_Luigi]

I agree with Tuppy on this one.

[Ridley]

My best character is Bowser and I'm absolutely amazing with him. I have proven this by beating my addict friends who play as Marth, Fox, and ... Jiggley puff. He is actually very good with Jiggley.
I beat them all at once and I beat them one on one. I suppose I have talent like Gimpy but I'm probably not that good. Oh and the tier list DOES exist.

[Zanryu]

I agree about tiers. They do exist, but it cancels out when players fight other players. I mean, you can't say for certain that Fox will win against Bowser if two players duke it out. He has a slightly better chance, but if the Bowser user is like Gimpy or something, and the Fox user is some everyday guy, that chance goes out the window, for the most part.

And items can unbalance the game, yes, but not so much as to have a hissy fit about it and not use them. It ruins the fun of seeing someone get smashed in the face with a baseball bat, or getting blown up with a walking bomb. Who wouldn't love to see that? And the chance of a capsule or some other carrier exploding is a chance people would have to take. The items can also BALANCE the game between two completely different skill levels.

Stages with gimmicks. I don't get why they get banned. They make things more fun. More interesting. Sticking to things like Yoshi's Island, FD, Battlefield, and small ass stages like that with little to no interesting things goin' on is boring as crap after the first twenty minutes.

[Java]

I agree about tiers. They do exist, but it cancels out when players fight other players. I mean, you can't say for certain that Fox will win against Bowser if two players duke it out. He has a slightly better chance, but if the Bowser user is like Gimpy or something, and the Fox user is some everyday guy, that chance goes out the window, for the most part.

And items can unbalance the game, yes, but not so much as to have a hissy fit about it and not use them. It ruins the fun of seeing someone get smashed in the face with a baseball bat, or getting blown up with a walking bomb. Who wouldn't love to see that? And the chance of a capsule or some other carrier exploding is a chance people would have to take. The items can also BALANCE the game between two completely different skill levels.

Stages with gimmicks. I don't get why they get banned. They make things more fun. More interesting. Sticking to things like Yoshi's Island, FD, Battlefield, and small ass stages like that with little to no interesting things goin' on is boring as crap after the first twenty minutes.

I'm pretty sure that the tier list is for when people of the same skill level play each other.

[LemonManX]

I think he fails to understand that items and gimmick stages are banned so that the two players are fighting on equal ground where only the skill with their character matters.

[Zanryu]

I think he fails to understand that items and gimmick stages are banned so that the two players are fighting on equal ground where only the skill with their character matters.

I know this. I just think it's stupid to ban them, because if NO one is of equal skill. So, the items and gimmicks even out the advantages and disadvantages. That's all I was stating.

[Jono2]

I think he fails to understand that items and gimmick stages are banned so that the two players are fighting on equal ground where only the skill with their character matters.

I know this. I just think it's stupid to ban them, because if NO one is of equal skill. So, the items and gimmicks even out the advantages and disadvantages. That's all I was stating.

no, they don't.  they exaggerate the tiers even more, because faster characters can grab items faster!  It raises the rankings of floating characters (jiggs & kirby), but that is negated by the fact that they can be killed by solidly thrown items (star rod, BBat) at criminally low percents.  pichu suffers, mewtwo raises, Fox becomes a god, and Falco becomes his demi.

Items do not even out play.  they create even more variables to work with, leading to more randomness, leading to matches where the winner may not truly be the better character.

[Zanryu]

If they're the better player, they'll be able to get by the items easily, no? They'll be able to adapt, no?

SSB runs off of randomness. Why are the gimmicks there? Randomness. ATs? Randomness. It makes the game what it is. Tournament players have turned it into something that isn't fun, or at least, they're trying. Sure, I myself play on FD, and I don't use items, but that's because it's easier to have a serious fight with my friends who vagina-y out and run away all the time. But people who are different skill levels but want a serious fight won't.

[Triforceman22]

I put a lvel 9 Yoshi vs. a level 9 Fox.

Guess who won?

































































Yoshi did. <3

[Tupin]

I put a lvel 9 Yoshi vs. a level 9 Fox.

Guess who won?

































































Yoshi did. <3

Doesn't it depend on the skill of the player?

[Triforceman22]

I put a lvel 9 Yoshi vs. a level 9 Fox.

Guess who won?

































































Yoshi did. <3

Doesn't it depend on the skill of the player?

nope....

to equal leveled players
and the lower tier won....