NSFCD

Game-o-rama => Console Gaming => Topic started by: Tupin on December 05, 2007, 10:59:13 AM

Title: If you want to be a good Smash player...
Post by: Tupin on December 05, 2007, 10:59:13 AM
You need to be able to fight against someone who uses items, IMO.

Some people who play competitively just think items are for people who can't play the game right.

But wouldn't a truly AWESOME person be able to win whether the other person uses items or not?
Title: Re: If you want to be a good Smash player...
Post by: Dei Enyt on December 05, 2007, 11:16:30 AM
Indeed.  In order to fully enjoy the game, you need to be prepared for the unexpected.  Seeing as this is Smash, unpredictability is everywhere.  It's NOT a mainstream fighter, nor should it be played like one.  Sure, there's the option of turning items off, but that's just to change up the gameplay once in a while.

Not to mention, no items in Brawl means no Final Smashes.  And for Samus fans, that means no ZSS. =P
Title: Re: If you want to be a good Smash player...
Post by: Tupin on December 05, 2007, 11:22:14 AM
Quote from: Dei Enyt on December 05, 2007, 11:16:30 AM
Indeed.  In order to fully enjoy the game, you need to be prepared for the unexpected.  Seeing as this is Smash, unpredictability is everywhere.  It's NOT a mainstream fighter, nor should it be played like one.  Sure, there's the option of turning items off, but that's just to change up the gameplay once in a while.

Not to mention, no items in Brawl means no Final Smashes.  And for Samus fans, that means no ZSS. =P
Which is a shame, because they nerfed normal Samus to make up for ZSS's speed.
Title: Re: If you want to be a good Smash player...
Post by: tollhouse2006 on December 05, 2007, 02:21:55 PM
Quote from: Tuppyluver1 on December 05, 2007, 11:22:14 AM
Quote from: Dei Enyt on December 05, 2007, 11:16:30 AM
Indeed.  In order to fully enjoy the game, you need to be prepared for the unexpected.  Seeing as this is Smash, unpredictability is everywhere.  It's NOT a mainstream fighter, nor should it be played like one.  Sure, there's the option of turning items off, but that's just to change up the gameplay once in a while.

Not to mention, no items in Brawl means no Final Smashes.  And for Samus fans, that means no ZSS. =P
Which is a shame, because they nerfed normal Samus to make up for ZSS's speed.
So, is Samus slower now?
Title: Re: If you want to be a good Smash player...
Post by: Tupin on December 05, 2007, 02:24:14 PM
Quote from: tollhouse2006 on December 05, 2007, 02:21:55 PM
Quote from: Tuppyluver1 on December 05, 2007, 11:22:14 AM
Quote from: Dei Enyt on December 05, 2007, 11:16:30 AM
Indeed.  In order to fully enjoy the game, you need to be prepared for the unexpected.  Seeing as this is Smash, unpredictability is everywhere.  It's NOT a mainstream fighter, nor should it be played like one.  Sure, there's the option of turning items off, but that's just to change up the gameplay once in a while.

Not to mention, no items in Brawl means no Final Smashes.  And for Samus fans, that means no ZSS. =P
Which is a shame, because they nerfed normal Samus to make up for ZSS's speed.
So, is Samus slower now?
Yes.
Title: Re: If you want to be a good Smash player...
Post by: thunderhero4 on December 05, 2007, 03:50:31 PM
I dont use items often, but i can win with or without them...
Title: Re: If you want to be a good Smash player...
Post by: Dawei on December 05, 2007, 04:00:26 PM
Not mainstream? If it isn't mainstream, why is there a site with over 80,000 members, with most of them dedicated to competitive Smash, and why was it featured on MTV's True Life: I'm a professional gamer? Seems mainstream to me, unless I'm completely missing the meaning of mainstream.

And, as I said in my other post to the exact same post, it's not that competitive people can't win with items (crews will occasionally do item matches in friendlies), it's that they want a fair game where it is based solely on skill.
Title: Re: If you want to be a good Smash player...
Post by: thunderhero4 on December 05, 2007, 04:01:25 PM
Quote from: Dawei on December 05, 2007, 04:00:26 PM
Not mainstream? If it isn't mainstream, why is there a site with over 80,000 members, with most of them dedicated to competitive Smash, and why was it featured on MTV's True Life: I'm a professional gamer? Seems mainstream to me, unless I'm completely missing the meaning of mainstream.

And, as I said in my other post to the exact same post, it's not that competitive people can't win with items (crews will occasionally do item matches in friendlies), it's that they want a fair game where it is based solely on skill.
Ill bet sakurai evened the characters a lil bit more in this game, so the tier list wont come into effect very often...
Title: Re: If you want to be a good Smash player...
Post by: Gbleek2 on December 05, 2007, 04:08:12 PM
i use items,but most of the time i have them off....can beat the level nines either way :P
Title: Re: If you want to be a good Smash player...
Post by: thunderhero4 on December 05, 2007, 04:09:30 PM
Quote from: Gbleek2 on December 05, 2007, 04:08:12 PM
i use items,but most of the time i have them off....can beat the level nines either way :P
lol, same here, and ill bet most people here would say the same thing! ;D
Title: Re: If you want to be a good Smash player...
Post by: Dawei on December 05, 2007, 04:14:20 PM
Quote from: thunderhero4 on December 05, 2007, 04:01:25 PM
Quote from: Dawei on December 05, 2007, 04:00:26 PM
Not mainstream? If it isn't mainstream, why is there a site with over 80,000 members, with most of them dedicated to competitive Smash, and why was it featured on MTV's True Life: I'm a professional gamer? Seems mainstream to me, unless I'm completely missing the meaning of mainstream.

And, as I said in my other post to the exact same post, it's not that competitive people can't win with items (crews will occasionally do item matches in friendlies), it's that they want a fair game where it is based solely on skill.
Ill bet sakurai evened the characters a lil bit more in this game, so the tier list wont come into effect very often...
As of the demo, Sakurai didn't even the characters at all. Ike sucked. Meta Knight was very good. Peach was even better, and so was Bowser. A Tier list will always exist for any fighting games simply because there is no fighting game where all the characters were "pretty even".
Title: Re: If you want to be a good Smash player...
Post by: StarWindWizard7 on December 05, 2007, 06:08:17 PM
Quote from: Dawei on December 05, 2007, 04:00:26 PM
Not mainstream? If it isn't mainstream, why is there a site with over 80,000 members, with most of them dedicated to competitive Smash, and why was it featured on MTV's True Life: I'm a professional gamer? Seems mainstream to me, unless I'm completely missing the meaning of mainstream.

And, as I said in my other post to the exact same post, it's not that competitive people can't win with items (crews will occasionally do item matches in friendlies), it's that they want a fair game where it is based solely on skill.
I agree.

Items 1 way or another can work for/against you.

Take a Pokemon for example......... and it's that Electrode thingy...

That pokemon could KO you even if it belongs to you...thats not good, and you woudn't say it's fair.

I mean, sure you'll run away from it, but if you get knocked down to it when it "Splodes" and stuff, who's fault is it
when you wanted to play with items eh?

Same thing with a hammer/headless Hammer.

I'm not saying items are bad and that people should play with them/with out them,
I'm saying is that if you want a
true skill between 2 people with out
"Outside interference" such as items...I'd rather play with out them.

Title: Re: If you want to be a good Smash player...
Post by: JrDude on December 05, 2007, 06:10:57 PM
wrong and right
you should mater both, with and without items, so you can fight all
Title: Re: If you want to be a good Smash player...
Post by: Dawei on December 05, 2007, 06:18:46 PM
Quote from: JrDude on December 05, 2007, 06:10:57 PM
wrong and right
you should mater both, with and without items, so you can fight all
But if you want a match based solely on skill to find out who is better then you shouldn't fight with items. One person may be more skilled with items, but that doesn't mean anything as all the items could spawn near their opponent, which leaves them at a major disadvantage because they have to come to them.
Title: Re: If you want to be a good Smash player...
Post by: Apollo on December 05, 2007, 06:20:27 PM
agreed. thats what ill tell everyone from now on
Title: Re: If you want to be a good Smash player...
Post by: Shujinco2 on December 05, 2007, 06:24:39 PM
Quote from: Gbleek2 on December 05, 2007, 04:08:12 PM
i use items,but most of the time i have them off....can beat the level nines either way :P
Level 8 is harder. Level nines are so "good" they screw up a lot of times.
Title: Re: If you want to be a good Smash player...
Post by: DededeCloneChris on December 05, 2007, 06:40:10 PM
Quote from: Shujinco on December 05, 2007, 06:24:39 PM
Quote from: Gbleek2 on December 05, 2007, 04:08:12 PM
i use items,but most of the time i have them off....can beat the level nines either way :P
Level 8 is harder. Level nines are so "good" they screw up a lot of times.
I agree with you, they pose, you kill them.
Title: Re: If you want to be a good Smash player...
Post by: Dei Enyt on December 05, 2007, 11:40:44 PM
Quote from: Dawei on December 05, 2007, 04:00:26 PM
Not mainstream? If it isn't mainstream, why is there a site with over 80,000 members, with most of them dedicated to competitive Smash, and why was it featured on MTV's True Life: I'm a professional gamer? Seems mainstream to me, unless I'm completely missing the meaning of mainstream.

You are.  You're looking at popularity, not the game itself.  The traditional fighter is a 1-on-1 stamina battle to be the last one standing.  Smash breaks that limit by throwing in the elements of a party game.  The concept of Smash is similar to the mainstream fighting game ONLY in one way: last man standing wins.  The execution, however, is completely different.  If you can't handle surprises or unpredictability and want to play solely based off of "skill", play Bloody Roar or Soul Calibur.

As long as there's one person who likes to take advantage of everything the game has to offer, there's going to be more who intend to do the same.  To put it in terms you'd understand, you're not going to be the best gamer by playing against the same crowd over and over again, you have to be able to adapt to any situation the game presents.
Title: Re: If you want to be a good Smash player...
Post by: Shujinco2 on December 06, 2007, 06:49:27 AM
Quote from: Dei Enyt on December 05, 2007, 11:40:44 PM
Quote from: Dawei on December 05, 2007, 04:00:26 PM
Not mainstream? If it isn't mainstream, why is there a site with over 80,000 members, with most of them dedicated to competitive Smash, and why was it featured on MTV's True Life: I'm a professional gamer? Seems mainstream to me, unless I'm completely missing the meaning of mainstream.

You are.  You're looking at popularity, not the game itself.  The traditional fighter is a 1-on-1 stamina battle to be the last one standing.  Smash breaks that limit by throwing in the elements of a party game.  The concept of Smash is similar to the mainstream fighting game ONLY in one way: last man standing wins.  The execution, however, is completely different.  If you can't handle surprises or unpredictability and want to play solely based off of "skill", play Bloody Roar or Soul Calibur.

As long as there's one person who likes to take advantage of everything the game has to offer, there's going to be more who intend to do the same.  To put it in terms you'd understand, you're not going to be the best gamer by playing against the same crowd over and over again, you have to be able to adapt to any situation the game presents.
Man, your the COOLEST dude ever!

Hurrah for Dei Enyt!
Title: Re: If you want to be a good Smash player...
Post by: Eizweir on December 06, 2007, 11:20:42 AM
Quote from: Dawei on December 05, 2007, 04:14:20 PM
Quote from: thunderhero4 on December 05, 2007, 04:01:25 PM
Quote from: Dawei on December 05, 2007, 04:00:26 PM
Not mainstream? If it isn't mainstream, why is there a site with over 80,000 members, with most of them dedicated to competitive Smash, and why was it featured on MTV's True Life: I'm a professional gamer? Seems mainstream to me, unless I'm completely missing the meaning of mainstream.

And, as I said in my other post to the exact same post, it's not that competitive people can't win with items (crews will occasionally do item matches in friendlies), it's that they want a fair game where it is based solely on skill.
Ill bet sakurai evened the characters a lil bit more in this game, so the tier list wont come into effect very often...
As of the demo, Sakurai didn't even the characters at all. Ike sucked. Meta Knight was very good. Peach was even better, and so was Bowser. A Tier list will always exist for any fighting games simply because there is no fighting game where all the characters were "pretty even".
Cool, Bowser is better.
I was hoping Sakurai would build it so where some character fails, other gain, and vice-versa.  So if we measured stats in points, like people here do in their character anaylisis s, all the characters would be pretty much even, some just excel in places where others don't.  That seems like the obvious way to do it for me, but I guess Sakurai doesn't think the same way...