I got it for Christmas and haven't really played it. It's nothing like Prime 1. Prime 1=Gift From the Gaming Gods
Metroid Prime 2 hates you.
I dislike Metroid Prime all together, it's just a game i never really thought was interesting.
Except Prime 1 was terribly boring.
And the backtracking made the game worse.
Prime 2 was just gay. It liked other boy video games. ::)
I hated going to the dark world and jumping from bubble to bubble, and I hated getting the keys over and over again... other than that they got the atmosphere and storyline pretty good.
Prime 1 was waaaaaaaaaay gooder. :robotveryhappy:
Try Metroid Prime 3, if you haven't already. Of course, beat Prime 2 first.
how do you know you hate it if you've hardly played it?(http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s144/Clompy2233/emot-pseudo.gif)
Metroid Prime was the godliness compared to Metroid Prime 2. Prime 2 sucked ass in comparison. still a good game, but Metroid Prime is just so much better (so long as you have the NTSC version, not the Players Choice version).
but even the players choice version of prime with all the glitches removed is better than the poop that is prime 2. :|
It's probably too hard for you.
Quote from: Cecil_and_Kain on January 05, 2008, 08:43:22 AM
It's probably too hard for you.
lol
metroid prime was harder if you're a glitcher. metroid prime 2 was just pathetic. :|
Quote from: Riosan on January 05, 2008, 07:49:33 AM
Except Prime 1 was terribly boring.
And the backtracking made the game worse.
Anyone who thinks that prime 1 is boring obviously doesn't play their games very long... :|
ahh well, I can't negotiate with non-glitchers. -_-
Quote from: Jono2 on January 05, 2008, 08:51:33 AM
Anyone who thinks that prime 1 is boring obviously doesn't play their games very long... :|
ahh well, I can't negotiate with non-glitchers. -_-
I play my games to, you know, play them. :|
Glitching is dumb and for prissy girly men and House! ::)
So, too, do I hate Trollers.
Backup? You said nothing about your horribly trollsome claim, just that you think it sucks. Why, I ask? And, please, nothing about how it "Wasn't true to the series" because Metroid Prime wasn't true to the series either, and of course THAT won eternal laud and glory.
Quote from: VALOO on January 05, 2008, 10:34:15 AM
Quote from: Jono2 on January 05, 2008, 08:51:33 AM
Anyone who thinks that prime 1 is boring obviously doesn't play their games very long... :|
ahh well, I can't negotiate with non-glitchers. -_-
I play my games to, you know, play them. :|
Glitching is dumb and for prissy girly men and House! ::)
That was creative.
What do you do, then, after you've beat the game and there's nothing to do afterwards?
Restart and play it again so you can do better?
Quote from: clompy on January 05, 2008, 08:11:25 AM
how do you know you hate it if you've hardly played it?(http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s144/Clompy2233/emot-pseudo.gif)
Precisely! I liked all the prime games, so...
Just look at the backtracking as something you normally don't find elsewhere.
Prime 2 had good atmosphere, same with prime 1 and 3.
My only true complaint with the dang game is the keys...
And I have a couple complaints with how frequent you go through portals at times.
i found only a few things wrong with prime 2, you never new where to go, and there was ammo for your weapon upgrades
Metroid Prime 2 was my favorite game of the trilogy. I really don't understand why people hate it so much. >_>
Quote from: Taytay19 on January 05, 2008, 10:40:16 AM
Metroid Prime 2 was my favorite game of the trilogy. I really don't understand why people hate it so much. >_>
i liked it more than prime 1, but like i said there where only like 2 things wrong with it
Quote from: Taytay19 on January 05, 2008, 10:40:16 AM
Metroid Prime 2 was my favorite game of the trilogy. I really don't understand why people hate it so much. >_>
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o103/SuperGuinea/CookieMonsterAgree.png)
I used to like the first more, but after the 20-somethingth playthrough I started on Prime 2 again and saw how great it was. Prime 3...well, a good try, even if it was disappointing.
Quote from: Chain Chompesque on January 05, 2008, 10:37:52 AM
So, too, do I hate Trollers.
Backup? You said nothing about your horribly trollsome claim, just that you think it sucks. Why, I ask? And, please, nothing about how it "Wasn't true to the series" because Metroid Prime wasn't true to the series either, and of course THAT won eternal laud and glory.
Nah, Metroid Prime is the most Metroidy game other than the original and Super. The first-person perspective means nothing since the atmosphere and gameplay is essentially exactly the same.
Prime 2 was a horrible game because it was repetitive, because the Dark World made the game frustratingly difficult, and just all in all because it failed in being a fun game. The whole game felt like a chore to play because you always knew eventually you would have to go back to the Dark World and bubble-hop for hours while trying to find keys and fight ridiculously strong enemies. It just wasn't fun.
In Prime you could get lost in the world with no worries other than how capable you were of defeating your enemies. Prime 2 gave you way too much to worry about, I actually felt stressed while playing it.
So yeah, it sucked.
BTW, if you ever get stuck on the final boss on normal, the [spoiler]EMPEROR ING![/spoiler]since it's HARD, boy I have a strategy that'll make you BEAT THE BOSS'S A**!
Just ask Gamemaster1379, he'll agree.
Quote from: Chain Chompesque on January 05, 2008, 10:44:21 AM
Quote from: Taytay19 on January 05, 2008, 10:40:16 AM
Metroid Prime 2 was my favorite game of the trilogy. I really don't understand why people hate it so much. >_>
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o103/SuperGuinea/CookieMonsterAgree.png)
I used to like the first more, but after the 20-somethingth playthrough I started on Prime 2 again and saw how great it was. Prime 3...well, a good try, even if it was disappointing.
Yeah, I loved Torvus Bog the most strangely. It seemed lush, natural, and had wonderful particle effects, and the water looked real nice. The rain felt so real, too and the areas weren't as cliched as Prime 1's, even though Prime 1 still had wonderful areas.
MP2's bosses/enemies were 10x better.
I'm not sure why people prefer MP over MP2. Most people in this thread didn't even give any reasons as to why MP2 sucked.
Quote from: VALOO on January 05, 2008, 10:45:59 AM
Quote from: Chain Chompesque on January 05, 2008, 10:37:52 AM
So, too, do I hate Trollers.
Backup? You said nothing about your horribly trollsome claim, just that you think it sucks. Why, I ask? And, please, nothing about how it "Wasn't true to the series" because Metroid Prime wasn't true to the series either, and of course THAT won eternal laud and glory.
Nah, Metroid Prime is the most Metroidy game other than the original and Super. The first-person perspective means nothing since the atmosphere and gameplay is essentially exactly the same.
Prime 2 was a horrible game because it was repetitive, because the Dark World made the game frustratingly difficult, and just all in all because it failed in being a fun game. The whole game felt like a chore to play because you always knew eventually you would have to go back to the Dark World and bubble-hop for hours while trying to find keys and fight ridiculously strong enemies. It just wasn't fun.
In Prime you could get lost in the world with no worries other than how capable you were of defeating your enemies. Prime 2 gave you way too much to worry about, I actually felt stressed while playing it.
So yeah, it sucked.
That's the POINT. I always felt you were
supposed to feel stressed because it was such a dang ****ing atmospheric game. Really, all you have to do is go to a room like the Plain of Dark Worship and look at all the corruption. The ambient soundtrack also does it good. Besides, once you get the Super Missile, you can obliterate stuff easily. You can also freeze an enemy with a Dark Beam charge and then missile it for the OHKO--Even Dark Pirate Commandos.
I had no problem with the Light Crystals, because once you get the Dark Suit, you hardly have to worry about the atmosphere at all. Some of the enemies were extremely cool, like the Quad MB and the Aezbit. As for bosses...Quadraxis is all I need to say on the matter. I never thought it was a chore, and really the only complaints I have are things like the Boost Guardian, since it moves so quickly there's no way to dodge, and sections when bosses have very small amounts of time when you can hurt them. It made great use of items like the Spider Ball, since you could Boost Ball off of a track.
Quote from: WiinolikePS3 on January 05, 2008, 10:38:42 AM
Quote from: VALOO on January 05, 2008, 10:34:15 AM
Quote from: Jono2 on January 05, 2008, 08:51:33 AM
Anyone who thinks that prime 1 is boring obviously doesn't play their games very long... :|
ahh well, I can't negotiate with non-glitchers. -_-
I play my games to, you know, play them. :|
Glitching is dumb and for prissy girly men and House! ::)
That was creative.
What do you do, then, after you've beat the game and there's nothing to do afterwards?
Restart and play it again so you can do better?
If you've beat the game and there's nothing to do afterwards, get another game. :robotveryhappy:
Tearing a game apart isn't that fun for me.
Quote from: red7js on January 05, 2008, 10:48:22 AM
BTW, if you ever get stuck on the final boss on normal, the [spoiler]EMPEROR ING![/spoiler]since it's HARD, boy I have a strategy that'll make you BEAT THE BOSS'S A**!
Just ask Gamemaster1379, he'll agree.
Screw attack?
Quote from: Chain Chompesque on January 05, 2008, 10:54:35 AM
Quote from: red7js on January 05, 2008, 10:48:22 AM
BTW, if you ever get stuck on the final boss on normal, the [spoiler]EMPEROR ING![/spoiler]since it's HARD, boy I have a strategy that'll make you BEAT THE BOSS'S A**!
Just ask Gamemaster1379, he'll agree.
Screw attack?
No, not just that.
Eh, oh why didn't I save a copy of that PM in my sent messages?
Quote from: VALOO on January 05, 2008, 10:54:17 AM
Quote from: WiinolikePS3 on January 05, 2008, 10:38:42 AM
Quote from: VALOO on January 05, 2008, 10:34:15 AM
Quote from: Jono2 on January 05, 2008, 08:51:33 AM
Anyone who thinks that prime 1 is boring obviously doesn't play their games very long... :|
ahh well, I can't negotiate with non-glitchers. -_-
I play my games to, you know, play them. :|
Glitching is dumb and for prissy girly men and House! ::)
That was creative.
What do you do, then, after you've beat the game and there's nothing to do afterwards?
Restart and play it again so you can do better?
If you've beat the game and there's nothing to do afterwards, get another game. :robotveryhappy:
Tearing a game apart isn't that fun for me.
It is for me. I've beaten Pikmin 2 and Metroid Prime around twenty times, Metroid Prime 2 about six times, Metroid Prime 3 four times, Super Mario Sunshine near seven times...it goes on. Yeah, I like replay value.
Quote from: Chain Chompesque on January 05, 2008, 10:53:42 AM
Quote from: VALOO on January 05, 2008, 10:45:59 AM
Quote from: Chain Chompesque on January 05, 2008, 10:37:52 AM
So, too, do I hate Trollers.
Backup? You said nothing about your horribly trollsome claim, just that you think it sucks. Why, I ask? And, please, nothing about how it "Wasn't true to the series" because Metroid Prime wasn't true to the series either, and of course THAT won eternal laud and glory.
Nah, Metroid Prime is the most Metroidy game other than the original and Super. The first-person perspective means nothing since the atmosphere and gameplay is essentially exactly the same.
Prime 2 was a horrible game because it was repetitive, because the Dark World made the game frustratingly difficult, and just all in all because it failed in being a fun game. The whole game felt like a chore to play because you always knew eventually you would have to go back to the Dark World and bubble-hop for hours while trying to find keys and fight ridiculously strong enemies. It just wasn't fun.
In Prime you could get lost in the world with no worries other than how capable you were of defeating your enemies. Prime 2 gave you way too much to worry about, I actually felt stressed while playing it.
So yeah, it sucked.
That's the POINT. I always felt you were supposed to feel stressed because it was such a dang ****ing atmospheric game. Really, all you have to do is go to a room like the Plain of Dark Worship and look at all the corruption. The ambient soundtrack also does it good. Besides, once you get the Super Missile, you can obliterate stuff easily. You can also freeze an enemy with a Dark Beam charge and then missile it for the OHKO--Even Dark Pirate Commandos.
I had no problem with the Light Crystals, because once you get the Dark Suit, you hardly have to worry about the atmosphere at all. Some of the enemies were extremely cool, like the Quad MB and the Aezbit. As for bosses...Quadraxis is all I need to say on the matter. I never thought it was a chore, and really the only complaints I have are things like the Boost Guardian, since it moves so quickly there's no way to dodge, and sections when bosses have very small amounts of time when you can hurt them. It made great use of items like the Spider Ball, since you could Boost Ball off of a track.
If you feel dread and just an overall feeling of not wanting to be where you are in a game, then you aren't really enjoying it. It works in most cases to enhance the game, but not in Prime 2. In Prime 2 it was just overdone to death. You were always running from enemies down dark corridors while running out of all your ammo, all the while slowly running out of health because of the Dark World's air. That's just too much to have to worry about in a game, IMO.
I respect that the creators were able to create an atmosphere like that but I definitely don't like it.
Games like BioShock and Prime 1 had just the right amount of fear and feeling like you were in charge of the game. In Prime 2 you felt like you were at the command of the Dark World, not like you were in charge of your own life.
Quote from: Chain Chompesque on January 05, 2008, 10:58:18 AM
Quote from: VALOO on January 05, 2008, 10:54:17 AM
Quote from: WiinolikePS3 on January 05, 2008, 10:38:42 AM
Quote from: VALOO on January 05, 2008, 10:34:15 AM
Quote from: Jono2 on January 05, 2008, 08:51:33 AM
Anyone who thinks that prime 1 is boring obviously doesn't play their games very long... :|
ahh well, I can't negotiate with non-glitchers. -_-
I play my games to, you know, play them. :|
Glitching is dumb and for prissy girly men and House! ::)
That was creative.
What do you do, then, after you've beat the game and there's nothing to do afterwards?
Restart and play it again so you can do better?
If you've beat the game and there's nothing to do afterwards, get another game. :robotveryhappy:
Tearing a game apart isn't that fun for me.
It is for me. I've beaten Pikmin 2 and Metroid Prime around twenty times, Metroid Prime 2 about six times, Metroid Prime 3 four times, Super Mario Sunshine near seven times...it goes on. Yeah, I like replay value.
I meant glitching, not replaying.
I thought they were both great, they just had some down time.
Metroid Prime 2 was metroid Prime.5. tons of the enemies were ripped straight from Metroid prime and given a color change. it's not that it was frusturating, it's that it was boring. The environments didn't make you want to explore them. the whole atmostphere felt dingy, whereas in Metroid Prime, the planet felt alive, even if a bit disconnected.
After they saw what was done to Metroid Prime, they were like "okay, that isn't happening with this one. lock down everything possible." and as such, the levels were nowhere near as interlinked (notice how all of the elevators are at the ends of paths, not in the middle of the worlds) and had much less spirit. they put invisible walls to block off paths instead of programming in a real wall. At one point, Retro even announced that people breaking the game would not be tolerated, as if someone playing your game over and over searching for new ways to beat it was a bad thing.
and as such, they paid the price. MP2's sales were far fewer than Metroid Prime, and it ended up being an even glitchier game, even though the glitches were not nearly as fun to abuse.
90% of the game was ridiculously easy, the other 10% was boosty & Chykka (not that Chykka was terribly hard for me, but some people think so).
The key quest was stupid. in Metroid Prime, you could collect nearly all the artifacts on the way through the game, and their hiding spots were cool and made you think. the "hiding spots" in MP2 were either just sitting in the open, or you were told the room it was in. Yeah, you were told the room it was in in prime as well, but the artifact hidden in the space pirate tower was better hidden than every single key in MP2. they were all sitting out in the open.
beam ammo was also a factor, you felt that you needed to conserve it and save it for boss fights, so that's what you did, and it lead to some people thinking the game was hard, even though the power beam does almost as respectable job as the other beams, which was disappointing.
the beam combos were useless aside from the always great super missile & the sonic boom (because it went so fast). the others were too slow/weak, and didn't justify the beam ammo used.
the story was lackluster, even in comparison to the first game. you at least got lores in the first game, in this one, it was like "oh, we saw a meteor fall from the sky... our world split. now we're all dead except for this one guy who is invincible, but is too lazy an ass to do anything about it".
screw attack wasn't implemented well, fixed in MP3.
gravity booster was a sad excuse for a % raise.
I could think of a couple more things, but I have to go study for chem. -_-
Quote from: Jono2 on January 05, 2008, 01:30:12 PM
Metroid Prime 2 was metroid Prime.5. tons of the enemies were ripped straight from Metroid prime and given a color change. it's not that it was frusturating, it's that it was boring. The environments didn't make you want to explore them. the whole atmostphere felt dingy, whereas in Metroid Prime, the planet felt alive, even if a bit disconnected.
After they saw what was done to Metroid Prime, they were like "okay, that isn't happening with this one. lock down everything possible." and as such, the levels were nowhere near as interlinked (notice how all of the elevators are at the ends of paths, not in the middle of the worlds) and had much less spirit. they put invisible walls to block off paths instead of programming in a real wall. At one point, Retro even announced that people breaking the game would not be tolerated, as if someone playing your game over and over searching for new ways to beat it was a bad thing.
and as such, they paid the price. MP2's sales were far fewer than Metroid Prime, and it ended up being an even glitchier game, even though the glitches were not nearly as fun to abuse.
90% of the game was ridiculously easy, the other 10% was boosty & Chykka (not that Chykka was terribly hard for me, but some people think so).
The key quest was stupid. in Metroid Prime, you could collect nearly all the artifacts on the way through the game, and their hiding spots were cool and made you think. the "hiding spots" in MP2 were either just sitting in the open, or you were told the room it was in. Yeah, you were told the room it was in in prime as well, but the artifact hidden in the space pirate tower was better hidden than every single key in MP2. they were all sitting out in the open.
beam ammo was also a factor, you felt that you needed to conserve it and save it for boss fights, so that's what you did, and it lead to some people thinking the game was hard, even though the power beam does almost as respectable job as the other beams, which was disappointing.
the beam combos were useless aside from the always great super missile & the sonic boom (because it went so fast). the others were too slow/weak, and didn't justify the beam ammo used.
the story was lackluster, even in comparison to the first game. you at least got lores in the first game, in this one, it was like "oh, we saw a meteor fall from the sky... our world split. now we're all dead except for this one guy who is invincible, but is too lazy an ass to do anything about it".
screw attack wasn't implemented well, fixed in MP3.
gravity booster was a sad excuse for a % raise.
I could think of a couple more things, but I have to go study for chem. -_-
Gravity booster wasn't a sad excuse for a percent raise. It saved me a lot of frusturation when navigating watery areas.
Yeah, screw attack wasn't very well implemented exploration wise, but I have found many uses for it so that I can get around faster, and even used it to dodge the final bosses attacks (not the one you face on escaping...).
There WERE lores. Hello, Luminoth Lore projectors, GF Trooper scans, Space Pirate Logs! Anyone?
I found the darkburst useful for the Chykka, and Sunburst useful for Quadraxis.
And if they thought the game was easy, there's always hard mode. Try hard for a challenge.
I never found Prime 2 glitchy...
I don't remember them putting up invisible walls right in the open...
Also, many of the elevators in Prime 1 were at the edge of the area. Both Prime 1's and 2's elevators had spirit IMO.
Prime 2 had really good atmosphere IMO. In the ruined GF trooper underground area was creepy, as was the dark troopers. Torvus Bog felt very alive.
And they didn't take Prime 1's enemies and give them a recolor.
You really are being overly critical and are OVEREXXAGURATING A LOT.
overexaggerating*
yes it was an excuse for a % raise. there was one small water area in the entire game, and it didn't even have a dark water counterpart. they could have easily just put in a gravity suit feature to the dark suit.
the screw attack was poorly implemented, and it is what caused most of the glitches. try screw attacking into a morph ball hole and see what happens. also, you can almost OHKO the last boss with it. it's broken.
I noted that there were lores, but the story was uninteresting.
Yes, they're useful, but only if you go out of your way to pick up the ammo expansions needed to be able to use the beams, which is implausible in a speed situation.
hard wasn't hard. 22% metroid prime is hard. 23% prime is hard, and that isn't even skipping anything that important, it's the boss, level, & enemy design. 9% MZM is hard (kinda). low% hyper mode MP3 is hard (hyper mode in a normal playthrough is easy). MP2 hard mode is not.
again, you aren't a glitcher. if you're looking for glitches, you find them everywhere. on top of slopes, namely, and you don't find nearly as many standable objects just sitting around the room as you did in prime. that's why it felt like a more complete world, because a normal civilization doesn't shave their walls to make nobody can stand on them.
there were very, very few if any walk-through elevators in prime 2. here's my point:
Prime: All of magmoor caverns was dedicated to transportation. this was the central hub. you could get lost here in a straight line if you didn't know where you were going. Tallon's ability to climb the crashed frigate lead you to a central elevator hub in the ruins. the elevator right after thardus leads back to the caverns, interlinking the areas. IIRC there's also one in the pirate base. Also, Great Tree Hall.
MP2: all were at the edges of the maps with the exception of the sky temple, which doesn't count.
There were many more "hub" rooms in prime 1 than prime 2, where you had multiple paths to take, and oftentimes, you chose the wrong one. there were only a handful in prime 3, and only a few more in prime 2.
but the elevators in prime 2 were infinitely more cool.
I was creeped out every time I entered the chozo ruins. I quit playing the game for a while because I was so terrified of the ghosts. :P
but for the GF trooper area? you never had to go back there. it was right at the start of the game and you didn't NEED to go back to the graveyard if you didn't want to. you had to go back to the chozo ruins.
Phendrana drifts is the best metroid atmosphere in any metroid game. you can't argue agains that.
the pirate base felt like their real HQ. the pirate HQ in MP2 was nothing but a couple rooms. the one in MP3 kicked MP1's ass though.
Magmoor, hub level. even so, I loved it.
I hate deserts, and the bog just grossed me out (I have a fear of parasites). deserts are boring to animate, since they're lifeless and bland.
sancutary fortress was awesome though, too bad it was so late in the game. The hub level of MP2 (sanctuary grounds or w/e) was confusing, and most of the rooms looked generally the same.
Enemies recolored, but not changed:
Metroids (look what they did to them in MP3. that's a change. hunters & fissions as well. darks are just what you'd expect. no surprise there.
Most enemies' dark versions were just "dark this" or "___ ing". they were the same as in the light but with a palette change and slightly stronger (on occassion).
Sheegoths, though the enemy did gain that stupid electric attack.
skreebats (another thing I didn't like about prime 3 is that they didn't change them from prime 1, even though they're a staple to the series)
zoomers (iirc)
Beetles
swarm enemies acted basically the same.
ingsmasher = omega pirate
Prime felt more real because there were standable walls. you could jump around and get stopped by something jutting out of the wall. a real civilization won't sand down the walls of their ancient ruins. prime 2 had much less of this, prime 3 had almost none of it.
Prime felt more like the previous metroid titles. they all have atmosphere. they're all interlinked. they all have a story without making you read. They don't make you get useless items just to pass a wall (translator modules). If MP2 was made in the 2d days, those translator doors wouldn't exist, and you would be blocked later on because you were lacking a vital piece of equipment.
beams & suits were expected. hell, visors were expected (I guessed the echo visor to be in the game... 3 months prior to release?). enemies were expected (because once you see them in the light, you see them in the dark) the controls were basically the same. it was like Prime without the fun part; glitching.
Quote from: Jono2 on January 05, 2008, 01:30:12 PM
Metroid Prime 2 was metroid Prime.5. tons of the enemies were ripped straight from Metroid prime and given a color change. it's not that it was frusturating, it's that it was boring. The environments didn't make you want to explore them. the whole atmostphere felt dingy, whereas in Metroid Prime, the planet felt alive, even if a bit disconnected.
Given a color change? A lot of them had completely new models (Shriekbats, for instance). Many of them
were the same enemies, too. What, that's a bad thing
now, all of a sudden? Oh, boo hoo, I still have to fight Space Pirates when I play Metroid. Oh, boo hoo, I still have to fight Goombas when I play Mario. Oh, boo hoo, I still have to fight Waddle Dees when I play Kirby. Oh, boo hoo, I still have to fight Tektites when I play Zelda. I also have no idea where you got the idea about the environments--Boring? What, a swamp lush with plant life and detail? A futuristic fortress LOADED with detail? (Seriously, look at most of the walls close up and you will find eerie amounts of detail that you wouldn't see otherwise.) A dark plain ravaged by storm and corruption?
QuoteAfter they saw what was done to Metroid Prime, they were like "okay, that isn't happening with this one. lock down everything possible." and as such, the levels were nowhere near as interlinked (notice how all of the elevators are at the ends of paths, not in the middle of the worlds) and had much less spirit. they put invisible walls to block off paths instead of programming in a real wall. At one point, Retro even announced that people breaking the game would not be tolerated, as if someone playing your game over and over searching for new ways to beat it was a bad thing.
Is change such a bad thing? Really, they're easy to find, and they're just as interlinked. There are elevators to three different areas in the Agon Wastes and Temple Grounds, and I'm fairly certain there are in the Sanctuary Fortress and Torvus Bog as well. I can recall three elevators in Prime 1 that were not at the ends of corridors, Chozo Ruins, Phendrana Drifts and Magmoor Caverns. In the Phendrana Drifts and Magmoor Caverns, you can't go past them until you have the Spider Ball--Which is basically the same as blocking you off. That leaves you with just one elevator of that fashion. They needed invisible walls because you can't put a random wall in the middle of an open cliff. All Primes have had one way to beat them: You can't change that. You act as if there was some secret, underhand way of beating the first Prime.
Quoteand as such, they paid the price. MP2's sales were far fewer than Metroid Prime, and it ended up being an even glitchier game, even though the glitches were not nearly as fun to abuse.
Glitchier? I've played it through six times, soon to be seven. Not one glitch. >_>
Quote90% of the game was ridiculously easy, the other 10% was boosty & Chykka (not that Chykka was terribly hard for me, but some people think so).
Then go play it on Hard Mode, whiner. It's there for more challenge.
QuoteThe key quest was stupid. in Metroid Prime, you could collect nearly all the artifacts on the way through the game, and their hiding spots were cool and made you think. the "hiding spots" in MP2 were either just sitting in the open, or you were told the room it was in. Yeah, you were told the room it was in in prime as well, but the artifact hidden in the space pirate tower was better hidden than every single key in MP2. they were all sitting out in the open.
It's not such a bad thing that you have to, gasp, actually take time to search for something on a fetch quest. It gives you time to get more expansions on your way. They also had to be sitting out in the open, (If "In an interdimensional rift" qualifies as out in the open) because the special Ing was carrying it. They were hardly out in the open when you have to go into a dark, poisoned bog or Spider/Boost Ball across platforms to get them anyway, eh?
Quotebeam ammo was also a factor, you felt that you needed to conserve it and save it for boss fights, so that's what you did, and it lead to some people thinking the game was hard, even though the power beam does almost as respectable job as the other beams, which was disappointing.
But you and I aren't those people, are we? I never felt once that I had to conserve it, because there was always an Ammo Station next to the three major bosses. I blasted the Light and Dark Beams off like crazy, using them on almost every enemy, and still had plenty of ammo to spare, thanks to the simple but ingenious system of getting ammo back. You could also never really run out, since you could charge to fire a normal shot when you were depleted.
Quotethe beam combos were useless aside from the always great super missile & the sonic boom (because it went so fast). the others were too slow/weak, and didn't justify the beam ammo used.
They weren't really weak. The Darkburst could kill an Ingsmasher at close-to-full health, and the Sunburst did a hefty bit of damage as well. The point of them being slow is that you have to be skilled with them to use them correctly. I use them quite a bit. They're even fun to use. (Ever seen a bunch of wasps get sucked into a black hole?)
Quotethe story was lackluster, even in comparison to the first game. you at least got lores in the first game, in this one, it was like "oh, we saw a meteor fall from the sky... our world split. now we're all dead except for this one guy who is invincible, but is too lazy an ass to do anything about it".
So GF Logs, Space Pirate Logs, and Luminoth LORE don't qualify as lore? As for the story, there were many Luminoth that survived; U-Mos allowed them to save themselves and go into stasis tanks. He is not invincible, and is not too lazy to do anything about it. He doesn't possess the power to do so. In addition, the way you mutilate it, you could make
any story sound bad.
Quotescrew attack wasn't implemented well, fixed in MP3.
I get the feeling you're just scrounging around for things to complain about now. Maybe it wasn't that great of an item--But it wasn't used a whole lot, and really wasn't that much of a pain.
Quotegravity booster was a sad excuse for a % raise.
Gravity Booster=Gravity Suit. It even has an extra boost function on it, but I don't see you whining about the Gravity Suit...
Quote from: Chain Chompesque on January 05, 2008, 08:54:08 PMYou act as if there was some secret, underhand way of beating the first Prime.
oh,
hohohoh
your whole argument fails just on that point.
metroid2002.com
come back after you've actually had fun with the games, mate. ;)
I come from the side of gaming that takes games apart then puts them back together in a way that may be harder, looks better, is always faster, and well...
i can't find a place for stronger. :|
requires a stronger analytical sense?
yeah. we're those underground groups that you look at on youtube and say "wow, that's incredible." we're 20 minute mario 64. we're an hour three minutes metroid prime. we're 18 minute sonic the hedgehog. We're 2:26 Ocarina of Time.
We're where TSA resided.
We are at SDA, and you won't find a place faster.
Quote from: Jono2 on January 05, 2008, 09:02:06 PM
Quote from: Chain Chompesque on January 05, 2008, 08:54:08 PMYou act as if there was some secret, underhand way of beating the first Prime.
oh,
hohohoh
your whole argument fails just on that point.
Genetic Fallacy. You have dismissed my entire argument because of where it came from/something unrelated. It's also a Red Herring, since you're dodging everything I'm saying.
Quote from: Chain Chompesque on January 05, 2008, 09:10:25 PM
Quote from: Jono2 on January 05, 2008, 09:02:06 PM
Quote from: Chain Chompesque on January 05, 2008, 08:54:08 PMYou act as if there was some secret, underhand way of beating the first Prime.
oh,
hohohoh
your whole argument fails just on that point.
Genetic Fallacy. You have dismissed my entire argument because of where it came from/something unrelated. It's also a Red Herring, since you're dodging everything I'm saying.
you obviously didn't take the time to see my view of the subject, the view of speedrunners on the subject. unnecessary items are frowned upon, and the gravity booster is one such item.
just look at the site, namely the metroid prime section. I already argued against the same basic points a couple of posts ago, and though it wouldn't take me long to type up a response, I really don't feel like it at the moment.
for example, since you can skip the spider ball. those "dead ends" you talk about are simply other routes that we choose to or not to take, simply because they're faster. the spider ball is useless. so is the gravity suit, grapple beam, all the beam combos, the charge beam... ahh, must I go on?
because the argument will only degrade to IT'S YOUR OWN OPINION, KEEP IT THAT WAY.
and since you haven't seen both sides of it, maybe you could stall getting to that point by looking at how hardcore metroid fans play the games?
By the way, your argument failed because you
assumed that there wasn't some secret, underhand way of beating the first prime, because you are not informed of all of the ways it can be beaten.
Quoteyou obviously didn't take the time to see my view of the subject, the view of speedrunners on the subject. unnecessary items are frowned upon, and the gravity booster is one such item.
But then you own argument, right here...
Quotejust look at the site, namely the metroid prime section. I already argued against the same basic points a couple of posts ago, and though it wouldn't take me long to type up a response, I really don't feel like it at the moment.
for example, since you can skip the spider ball. those "dead ends" you talk about are simply other routes that we choose to or not to take, simply because they're faster. the spider ball is useless. so is the gravity suit, grapple beam, all the beam combos, the charge beam... ahh, must I go on?
...Defies itself. You're saying that they're frowned upon, yet you just listed loads of upgrades that aren't needed in the original, which you clearly support.
Quotebecause the argument will only degrade to IT'S YOUR OWN OPINION, KEEP IT THAT WAY.
But not all if it was. For example, you slapped the game for not having lores, when as a
fact[/i] it does. That's not an opinion.
Quoteand since you haven't seen both sides of it, maybe you could stall getting to that point by looking at how hardcore metroid fans play the games?
Hardcore? You don't need to try to beat the game while skimping on upgrades to be a "Hardcore" Metroid fan. If you're talking about a hardcore Metroid gamer, that's different--But I can be a hardcore fan without that. The only games I lack are Return of Samus and Metroid Prime Hunters, since the single player is supposed to be mediocre.
QuoteBy the way, your argument failed because you assumed that there wasn't some secret, underhand way of beating the first prime, because you are not informed of all of the ways it can be beaten.
That part of my argument did. On the contrary, you said that my
entire argument failed.
I support the style of the game. they aren't needed in the original, but having to play the game through in that fashion without skipping anything isn't any fun, is it? Plus, if the game was made without them, it would have sold so few copies. I should've worded that properly.
Unnecessary items that you are forced to get are frowned upon. you can't skip the gravity booster while still remaining within the game walls. Translators, useless stuff like that. when you're forced to take something, it's annoying. it's saying "you don't have a choice but to make the game easier for yourself". Easier isn't as fun. I skip that energy tank in MP3, leaving myself with only one, not because it will make my life difficult, but that and it will be more fun playing through the game that way.
I didn't say it didn't have lores. I said that the lores were boring in comparison.
yeah, the single player MPH is mediocre... I did contribute to the run of it though. I can't find RoS either. o_O
and it did all fail, because you based your argument on the assumption that there is only one path through each metroid game, that enemies like aren't skipped for time because after the first couple, they're boring to kill. it's not fun to try jumps that are thought to be impossible. it's fun when you succeed at making said jump.
Quote from: Jono2 on January 05, 2008, 09:56:39 PM
I support the style of the game. they aren't needed in the original, but having to play the game through in that fashion without skipping anything isn't any fun, is it? Plus, if the game was made without them, it would have sold so few copies. I should've worded that properly.
There are ways of challenging yourself if you don't want to play it the same way. In Metroid, you can
always go for low percent challenges. In the first two Primes, you could challenge yourself by never using Beam Combos on enemies, for instance. A no Dark/Thermal Visors challenge? Be creative. Personally, I'm content to play through the game the same way again.
QuoteUnnecessary items that you are forced to get are frowned upon. you can't skip the gravity booster while still remaining within the game walls. Translators, useless stuff like that. when you're forced to take something, it's annoying. it's saying "you don't have a choice but to make the game easier for yourself". Easier isn't as fun. I skip that energy tank in MP3, leaving myself with only one, not because it will make my life difficult, but that and it will be more fun playing through the game that way.
It's not always easier. It's an upgrade you need to progress, not always to ease gameplay. That's the style of Metroid. There are areas you can't access at first, but once you get a certain upgrade, you can come back and get through there. Sure, some upgrades are there mostly just for combat. But, like I said above, you can choose not to use them, even if you still have to get them.
QuoteI didn't say it didn't have lores. I said that the lores were boring in comparison.
Direct quote from you: "you at least got lores in the first game". In the context of complaining about Metroid Prime 2, you are denoting that it does not have lores.
Quoteyeah, the single player MPH is mediocre... I did contribute to the run of it though. I can't find RoS either. o_O
I just read too many poor reviews on it to get it...for me, Metroid is a single-player game, and a Metroid based on Wi-Fi wasn't really something I wanted to spend my money on...oh well, maybe I'll get it if I can buy it for cheap.
Quoteand it did all fail, because you based your argument on the assumption that there is only one path through each metroid game, that enemies like aren't skipped for time because after the first couple, they're boring to kill. it's not fun to try jumps that are thought to be impossible. it's fun when you succeed at making said jump.
No, my entire argument was not based upon that point. I don't see where you made that connection. Your argument was fairly diverse and unrelated. I responded to each part of it, and as a result, mine was diverse and unrelated. For example, you complained that the Gravity Booster was a useless percent raise. How is
that related to the fact that you can beat the first Metroid Prime while skipping some upgrades? You also complained about things like enemy rehashes; again, not at all related. The story? Still unrelated. That was a very small part of my argument, and you used a Part-to-Whole fallacy to blow it up as if it was my entire argument.
In plenty of cases, getting an item then just not using it is impossible. you need said item to get out of the room that you got it in. Why get the thermal visor if you're not going to use it? that's why you skip it, because:
1. there's the temptation to use it when you'd normally need it.
2. You get a rush from pushing the game beyond what the developers intended it to be. at least I do.
The beam combos in the primes weren't all that useful, save for the Super Missiles & Ice spreader. the wavebuster was too much of a hastle to get for what it was worth, and though it was really powerful, the amount of missiles was better used for the ice spreader. Though I never collect the super missiles anymore (going through the labs there is just a waste of my time), they were useful in destroying quite a few bosses (like Thardus, which you also don't have to fight). But, you were given the option of using them.
Now, in prime 2, the beam combos weren't useful after you got the annihilator & sonic boom. the lightburst was way too slow, and nearly never hit unless you were just a foot away, and even so, if the enemy was fast (dark samus), chances are you weren't going to hit anyways. Ammo was simply better used on normal charged shots, and you were given no inscentive to do otherwise, because the game wasn't any easier or harder with or without the combos (again, with the exception of super missiles). Sonic boom was only really useful because it hit instantly.
The emerald translator didn't do anything. all it did was open up new areas. it impeded progress until it was grabbed.
that is not metroid. Metroid has classically had you getting lost somewhere, never really telling you where to go. If you got yourself somewhere? Too bad. get yourself out, or try to procede. Prime 2 started the "Put up walls so they can't advance" part of Metroid that it has now entered into (hyper grapple & grapple charge were MP3's versions of this). The developers could have just put an impassible ledge that you couldn't go past instead of just saying "You can't go here until this is done!".
w/e. I didn't mean to say that, i meant to say that the lores were boring in comparison. :P
The Wi-Fi on MPH was broken and hacked very, very fast. Because of the nature of the series, glitches were found everywhere very quickly, and abused as such, which is a reason that Metroid remains a single-player series.
You wrote it with that mindset, and that's all that really matters. If you don't know the whole story, you can't write an essay, because it will likely have vital parts missing. If you know the cliffs notes, yes, you can get through the essay, but unless you've actually read the book, you miss the small details in the text. Enemies that you've fought over and over tend to get boring.
How is the gravity booster being a useless % raise relevant to being able to skip items in prime?
you weren't forced upon useless upgrades in prime.
I think you guys are over-analyzing what makes these games fun....
Quote from: Cecil_and_Kain on January 06, 2008, 04:06:02 PM
I think you guys are over-analyzing what makes these games fun....
speeddemosarchive.com
Quote from: Jono2 on January 06, 2008, 03:27:49 PM
In plenty of cases, getting an item then just not using it is impossible. you need said item to get out of the room that you got it in. Why get the thermal visor if you're not going to use it? that's why you skip it, because:
1. there's the temptation to use it when you'd normally need it.
2. You get a rush from pushing the game beyond what the developers intended it to be. at least I do.
Meaning you never use the item when you don't need it. You need the Super Missile to open green doors in MP2, but not to kill enemies. So you'd use it for the green doors, but not to kill enemies.
QuoteThe beam combos in the primes weren't all that useful, save for the Super Missiles & Ice spreader. the wavebuster was too much of a hastle to get for what it was worth, and though it was really powerful, the amount of missiles was better used for the ice spreader. Though I never collect the super missiles anymore (going through the labs there is just a waste of my time), they were useful in destroying quite a few bosses (like Thardus, which you also don't have to fight). But, you were given the option of using them.
You can still give yourself a little bit of an extra challenge and not use them...
QuoteNow, in prime 2, the beam combos weren't useful after you got the annihilator & sonic boom. the lightburst was way too slow, and nearly never hit unless you were just a foot away, and even so, if the enemy was fast (dark samus), chances are you weren't going to hit anyways. Ammo was simply better used on normal charged shots, and you were given no inscentive to do otherwise, because the game wasn't any easier or harder with or without the combos (again, with the exception of super missiles). Sonic boom was only really useful because it hit instantly.
I used them all the time. It's specific for the person playing.
QuoteThe emerald translator didn't do anything. all it did was open up new areas. it impeded progress until it was grabbed.
The doors block you so you can get to the temple and receive your objective. After that, you can do whatever you want. There are a lot of ways you can go before that, even.
Quotethat is not metroid. Metroid has classically had you getting lost somewhere, never really telling you where to go. If you got yourself somewhere? Too bad. get yourself out, or try to procede. Prime 2 started the "Put up walls so they can't advance" part of Metroid that it has now entered into (hyper grapple & grapple charge were MP3's versions of this). The developers could have just put an impassible ledge that you couldn't go past instead of just saying "You can't go here until this is done!".
You don't have to get lost. A game based on getting lost doesn't help much. (Map stations, anyone?) I wandered around until I found the temple and got the translator. Then I wandered around some more. It's pretty much what happens in Metroid Prime 2, and it's what's been done in Metroid in the past.
Quotew/e. I didn't mean to say that, i meant to say that the lores were boring in comparison. :P
Well, if you say "Barf," I'll assume that you mean barf, if you catch my meaning.
QuoteThe Wi-Fi on MPH was broken and hacked very, very fast. Because of the nature of the series, glitches were found everywhere very quickly, and abused as such, which is a reason that Metroid remains a single-player series.
Yup, and the reviews I read said that...
QuoteYou wrote it with that mindset, and that's all that really matters. If you don't know the whole story, you can't write an essay, because it will likely have vital parts missing. If you know the cliffs notes, yes, you can get through the essay, but unless you've actually read the book, you miss the small details in the text. Enemies that you've fought over and over tend to get boring.
I didn't write it with that mindset; again, I addressed the one little part of your argument with that mindset. You're still using the Part-to-Whole fallacy there. As for your last sentence, I'm still fine with fighting Space Pirates and Goombas and Waddle Dees and (Insert enemy used more than once here).
QuoteHow is the gravity booster being a useless % raise relevant to being able to skip items in prime?
you weren't forced upon useless upgrades in prime.
I found many uses for the Gravity Booster. I wouldn't call it useless...it's just something subjective.
if you have the item already, why not use it? you're gonna be forced to use it anyways, so why skimp on it?
you could go to the areas and figure out where to go without the doors & U-Mos telling you "go here now". I like the solidarity in the games, with nobody telling me where to go or what to do. You could have explored Sancutary fortress just fine without getting an objective from the temple that opens up the doors in the area. why should we need to go deep into the level just to open doors, when we don't even get a reason why those doors should have been there in the first place?
There are classic enemies (goombas, waddle dees), then there are enemies that require specific upgrades to kill and are just pests after a while, and these can be incarnations of classic enemies (flying phazon space pirate commandos in MP3), or not (ingsmashers, dark ingsmashers, those viral things, Ings (I walked by those every time I could after the first few encounters)). Some enemies are just boring to kill, like the Ing. They suck up ammo when you could use it elsewhere, because if you aim for every Ing, you're gonna run out fast.
The gravity booster was hardly used in the game. To give an item for underwater exploration in a game that has 5% of it underwater is hardly useful, especially when the item is really only needed to pick up one key. a key, for god's sake, which classically wouldn't be in a metroid game. (pick up keys to fight a boss? had never happened before prime, and in prime there were only keys for the final area). Yes, after you got it, you had better mobility underwater, but you only needed to go underwater to get one key, then get back out, because after you grabbed that key, you didn't even need to go back into any substantial amount of water (the power bomb guardian, but I don't think that you have to bury yourself that deep again for the PBG).
I mean, if we had a Maridia, then it would have been a useful upgrade. but the fact that you only have to use it for all of a minute max (to get out of alpha blogg's room, then to grab the key) just makes me wonder why they couldn't have either
A. made a whole water world to traverse with this
or
B. made the area above ground, with the alpha blogg being a flying boss, or just a different design altogether to pick up the key.
I mean, it puts you through a huge rigamaroll to get an item that you're never going to use again. that's the big problem I had with the booster. You forget that you had it, because it's never used.
Quote from: Jono2 on January 06, 2008, 09:19:31 PM
if you have the item already, why not use it? you're gonna be forced to use it anyways, so why skimp on it?
Because you said that you try to play through skipping as many items as possible for a challenge, and you're going one step below that by getting the item, but never using it except when absolutely necessary. Same thing in essence.
Quoteyou could go to the areas and figure out where to go without the doors & U-Mos telling you "go here now". I like the solidarity in the games, with nobody telling me where to go or what to do. You could have explored Sancutary fortress just fine without getting an objective from the temple that opens up the doors in the area. why should we need to go deep into the level just to open doors, when we don't even get a reason why those doors should have been there in the first place?
But U-Mos tells you to go "to the Sanctuary Fortress, high in the cliffs". He gives you no map direction. He says to go to an extremely general area and you do--It's not like in Prime 3 where even with the Hint System off, your computer screams at you every few seconds to go to each specific room you need to. Really, you're fairly free once U-Mos talks to you, and after you get your latest translator you're on your own. It doesn't take too long to get it, but I still found about three other unnecessary ways to go before I had it, so even before it there's a lot of exploration. Frequently the map station isn't accessible for a while.
QuoteThere are classic enemies (goombas, waddle dees), then there are enemies that require specific upgrades to kill and are just pests after a while, and these can be incarnations of classic enemies (flying phazon space pirate commandos in MP3), or not (ingsmashers, dark ingsmashers, those viral things, Ings (I walked by those every time I could after the first few encounters)). Some enemies are just boring to kill, like the Ing. They suck up ammo when you could use it elsewhere, because if you aim for every Ing, you're gonna run out fast.
I didn't find the Warrior Ing (Assuming that's which one you're talking about) boring to kill... It's fun trying to lure them into a supercharged crystal and watch them wander around uncertainly. Dark Aether was loaded with Ingpods and the little storage units that spew ammo when you need it, so I rarely had to worry about it unless I wanted to use the Darkburst on something for fun. I rarely skipped enemies. I also find guys like Shriekbats to be "Classic" enemies, and didn't mind finding them in every Prime.
QuoteThe gravity booster was hardly used in the game. To give an item for underwater exploration in a game that has 5% of it underwater is hardly useful, especially when the item is really only needed to pick up one key. a key, for god's sake, which classically wouldn't be in a metroid game. (pick up keys to fight a boss? had never happened before prime, and in prime there were only keys for the final area). Yes, after you got it, you had better mobility underwater, but you only needed to go underwater to get one key, then get back out, because after you grabbed that key, you didn't even need to go back into any substantial amount of water (the power bomb guardian, but I don't think that you have to bury yourself that deep again for the PBG).
I went back there several times for expansions, and found it quite helpful in battling Bloggs and such. But now you're stating on the "Keys aren't loyal to the series" argument. Well, I'll...be discreet with my opinions on that argument, and just give what I have to say on it. It's not a bad thing to try something new. If the developers are that obsessed with staying "Loyal to the series" before long the franchise will be milked dry and done for. Pretty much the only way to keep franchises alive is to keep trying new things. In Mario, for example, we can see this in having two racers per kart in Mario Kart: Double Dash!!, having the gravity system in Galaxy, FLUDD in Sunshine, and so on. Really, Metroid Prime wasn't loyal to the series simply because it was 3-D, but it was raved about. I found the key system a nice, fun addition, and since you get them like any other upgrade, they didn't even feel unnatural.
QuoteI mean, if we had a Maridia, then it would have been a useful upgrade. but the fact that you only have to use it for all of a minute max (to get out of alpha blogg's room, then to grab the key) just makes me wonder why they couldn't have either
A. made a whole water world to traverse with this
or
B. made the area above ground, with the alpha blogg being a flying boss, or just a different design altogether to pick up the key.
I mean, it puts you through a huge rigamaroll to get an item that you're never going to use again. that's the big problem I had with the booster. You forget that you had it, because it's never used.
Well, like I said, I went for 100%, so I ended up using it a lot when I went back there. You also have to go back for the Sky Temple keys.
I don't. But it was a pain to get through it though.
I thought it was a pretty cool and good looking game but yeah it was pretty bad most of the having to navigate the world.
Yes, but why should you have to go meet with U-Mos? it's easy to figure out by yourself, but he has to tell you where to go in order for you to gain access, like the locked doors in fusion. if the passages were blocked by things that required you to get an actual piece of eqipment, it would be better than having to run back & forth, especially that slow elevator.
why shoot once to kill something when you can just walk by it? I mean, watching them disintegrate is fun for a while, but for a while.
it's more of the issue that gathering keys built up a "i know i'm fighting a boss soon" sense. in the previous titles, you would seemingly randomly run into a boss. in MP2, you gathered 3 keys, and you felt like the only place left to go was the boss. The only really anticipated boss fights in MP were the last trio (ridley, primes) & perhaps thardus (because of the massive circular room). all of the others that you got upgrades from you would walk into a room, get a cutscene, and wonder what was happening, but prime didn't do this as well as, say, Super Metroid. but we'll never get a metroid game better than that, so I can't really compare there. :P
Keys tell you where you're going. They tell you that "something big is behind that door". whereas if there were no keys, you would walk in blindly and be surprised. by the time I was grabbing the keys 7-9 to get to quaddy, I was really, really tired of running around just to grab keys, and the transition wasn't even smooth. it made a big deal of you getting keys, even when there were like, 21 in the game. every time you had to sit through a cutscene, when it could have just said "you got a key" instead of wasting 20 seconds of my time telling me something I already know. o_O
If dark aether was an actual complete level instead of disjointed spots of land, I wouldn't have that many complaints about getting those keys. but since you knew where they were, but had to warp in/out of the land every time to get one, it just seemed a bit ridiculous to me. they could have connected it all, put a little more effort into it, and made it more treacherous to navigate dark aether, rather than just annexing rooms and making you warp in/out.
you can get in/out of the main area without the gravity booster. you can navigate everywhere around there without the gravity booster, and that's not even using super special tricks. it's only alpha blogg's area underneath the generator thing that you need the gravity booster for.
Quote from: Jono2 on January 07, 2008, 12:37:05 PM
Yes, but why should you have to go meet with U-Mos? it's easy to figure out by yourself, but he has to tell you where to go in order for you to gain access, like the locked doors in fusion. if the passages were blocked by things that required you to get an actual piece of eqipment, it would be better than having to run back & forth, especially that slow elevator.
I blame that on most of the newer gamers out there that actually expect the game to hold there hand and coddle them while they go through it, and if it doesn't they complain about how they game sucks and is horrible.
Quote from: Jono2 on January 05, 2008, 04:37:46 PM
overexaggerating*
yes it was an excuse for a % raise. there was one small water area in the entire game, and it didn't even have a dark water counterpart. they could have easily just put in a gravity suit feature to the dark suit.
the screw attack was poorly implemented, and it is what caused most of the glitches. try screw attacking into a morph ball hole and see what happens. also, you can almost OHKO the last boss with it. it's broken.
I noted that there were lores, but the story was uninteresting.
Yes, they're useful, but only if you go out of your way to pick up the ammo expansions needed to be able to use the beams, which is implausible in a speed situation.
hard wasn't hard. 22% metroid prime is hard. 23% prime is hard, and that isn't even skipping anything that important, it's the boss, level, & enemy design. 9% MZM is hard (kinda). low% hyper mode MP3 is hard (hyper mode in a normal playthrough is easy). MP2 hard mode is not.
again, you aren't a glitcher. if you're looking for glitches, you find them everywhere. on top of slopes, namely, and you don't find nearly as many standable objects just sitting around the room as you did in prime. that's why it felt like a more complete world, because a normal civilization doesn't shave their walls to make nobody can stand on them.
there were very, very few if any walk-through elevators in prime 2. here's my point:
Prime: All of magmoor caverns was dedicated to transportation. this was the central hub. you could get lost here in a straight line if you didn't know where you were going. Tallon's ability to climb the crashed frigate lead you to a central elevator hub in the ruins. the elevator right after thardus leads back to the caverns, interlinking the areas. IIRC there's also one in the pirate base. Also, Great Tree Hall.
MP2: all were at the edges of the maps with the exception of the sky temple, which doesn't count.
There were many more "hub" rooms in prime 1 than prime 2, where you had multiple paths to take, and oftentimes, you chose the wrong one. there were only a handful in prime 3, and only a few more in prime 2.
but the elevators in prime 2 were infinitely more cool.
I was creeped out every time I entered the chozo ruins. I quit playing the game for a while because I was so terrified of the ghosts. :P
but for the GF trooper area? you never had to go back there. it was right at the start of the game and you didn't NEED to go back to the graveyard if you didn't want to. you had to go back to the chozo ruins.
Phendrana drifts is the best metroid atmosphere in any metroid game. you can't argue agains that.
the pirate base felt like their real HQ. the pirate HQ in MP2 was nothing but a couple rooms. the one in MP3 kicked MP1's ass though.
Magmoor, hub level. even so, I loved it.
I hate deserts, and the bog just grossed me out (I have a fear of parasites). deserts are boring to animate, since they're lifeless and bland.
sancutary fortress was awesome though, too bad it was so late in the game. The hub level of MP2 (sanctuary grounds or w/e) was confusing, and most of the rooms looked generally the same.
Enemies recolored, but not changed:
Metroids (look what they did to them in MP3. that's a change. hunters & fissions as well. darks are just what you'd expect. no surprise there.
Most enemies' dark versions were just "dark this" or "___ ing". they were the same as in the light but with a palette change and slightly stronger (on occassion).
Sheegoths, though the enemy did gain that stupid electric attack.
skreebats (another thing I didn't like about prime 3 is that they didn't change them from prime 1, even though they're a staple to the series)
zoomers (iirc)
Beetles
swarm enemies acted basically the same.
ingsmasher = omega pirate
Prime felt more real because there were standable walls. you could jump around and get stopped by something jutting out of the wall. a real civilization won't sand down the walls of their ancient ruins. prime 2 had much less of this, prime 3 had almost none of it.
Prime felt more like the previous metroid titles. they all have atmosphere. they're all interlinked. they all have a story without making you read. They don't make you get useless items just to pass a wall (translator modules). If MP2 was made in the 2d days, those translator doors wouldn't exist, and you would be blocked later on because you were lacking a vital piece of equipment.
beams & suits were expected. hell, visors were expected (I guessed the echo visor to be in the game... 3 months prior to release?). enemies were expected (because once you see them in the light, you see them in the dark) the controls were basically the same. it was like Prime without the fun part; glitching.
I understand better, but I guess I never woulda thought of either screw attacking into a morphball hole or right into the emperor ing (or did you mean Dark Samus?).
Also, I didn't know that when you said recolors, you mean't the dark world enemies, yet some of them DID get some feature changes, and were considerably stronger... But I don't see how you can complain about either the Metroid's look or the Space Pirates base size. The Pirate's base size was due to the GF shot them down. The Metroids? Well, they weren't as horrobly mutated and experimented with as the ones in Prime 3, and the recolor could be explained by the difference in atmosphere.
Okay, but my biggest problem with what you said was saying it wasn't hard. How isn't it hard? Just wondering.
I can understand why you didn't like the bog, but Retro did manage to make Agon Wastes more interesting than the average desert... they could of just made it a plain of sand!
Yes, I'm not a glitcher. I find out about a glitch, I'll try to do it though (I'm just curious like that!)
Okay, so maybe you just don't have the same opinions as me, but how about we keep our opinions and stop here before it turns into a flame war!
Quote from: red7js on January 08, 2008, 04:28:26 PM
I understand better, but I guess I never woulda thought of either screw attacking into a morphball hole or right into the emperor ing (or did you mean Dark Samus?).
Also, I didn't know that when you said recolors, you mean't the dark world enemies, yet some of them DID get some feature changes, and were considerably stronger... But I don't see how you can complain about either the Metroid's look or the Space Pirates base size. The Pirate's base size was due to the GF shot them down. The Metroids? Well, they weren't as horrobly mutated and experimented with as the ones in Prime 3, and the recolor could be explained by the difference in atmosphere.
Okay, but my biggest problem with what you said was saying it wasn't hard. How isn't it hard? Just wondering.
I can understand why you didn't like the bog, but Retro did manage to make Agon Wastes more interesting than the average desert... they could of just made it a plain of sand!
Yes, I'm not a glitcher. I find out about a glitch, I'll try to do it though (I'm just curious like that!)
Okay, so maybe you just don't have the same opinions as me, but how about we keep our opinions and stop here before it turns into a flame war!
note that everything I said was in comparison to MP. MP2 is by no means a bad game. in comparison, MP from me gets a 10/10 while MP2 gets a 8.5, but if you compare MP2 to MP in my books, MP2 barely passes.
Maybe it was partly that MP2 didn't really add a whole lot to the series. MP was a fresh take on the series, and MP2 was just a small step further. the controls weren't really any better than the original, and there weren't a whole lot of new gameplay elements.
the EI's mutated form can be killed really fast using screw attack. try it next time. :P
I was just really comparing. I like the space pirate base parts of the games, and though they took a back seat in MP2, i felt that they could have been given a bigger role (especially due to their reprising in the third game & how they were trying to work together with the "big boss"). The Metroids in MP2 were just Tallon & dark tallon, and they also took a back seat. if you weren't looking for them, you hardly found any metroids in the game, and even if you did look, they only appeared in a handful of rooms. I felt that they were kinda boring in MP2 after comparing them to the Fission Metroids in MP, which gave me hell, but looked normal until you attacked them. :P
I would've liked a huge open desert sorta thing. but just because they made a desert interesting doesn't mean they couldn't have picked a better theme instead of a desert to work with. but then they did with sanctuary, which made up for agon (i found agon to be
agonizing, lawl).
Once you got the dark suit, it was pretty easy exploration-wise. You no longer had to worry about searching for light nodules to shoot every few seconds, whereas I felt that MP gave you a bunch of puzzles throughout the game that were just generally harder overall. Again, this might just be because they re-used alot of gameplay elements (half-pipes, spinners), but there wasn't a key hidden like the artifact on top of monitor station in MP. MP felt much more complete of a game, and MP2 just felt rushed. in MP, the artifiacts that were hidden looked like someone had hidden them there. in MP2, the key carriers were just floating about in the open... they could have at least been behind rocks instead of sitting in the middle of the room.
I like debating. if it ever turns into a flame war, I butt out (lol, pun).
Quote from: Jono2 on January 08, 2008, 09:33:28 PM
Quote from: red7js on January 08, 2008, 04:28:26 PM
I understand better, but I guess I never woulda thought of either screw attacking into a morphball hole or right into the emperor ing (or did you mean Dark Samus?).
Also, I didn't know that when you said recolors, you mean't the dark world enemies, yet some of them DID get some feature changes, and were considerably stronger... But I don't see how you can complain about either the Metroid's look or the Space Pirates base size. The Pirate's base size was due to the GF shot them down. The Metroids? Well, they weren't as horrobly mutated and experimented with as the ones in Prime 3, and the recolor could be explained by the difference in atmosphere.
Okay, but my biggest problem with what you said was saying it wasn't hard. How isn't it hard? Just wondering.
I can understand why you didn't like the bog, but Retro did manage to make Agon Wastes more interesting than the average desert... they could of just made it a plain of sand!
Yes, I'm not a glitcher. I find out about a glitch, I'll try to do it though (I'm just curious like that!)
Okay, so maybe you just don't have the same opinions as me, but how about we keep our opinions and stop here before it turns into a flame war!
note that everything I said was in comparison to MP. MP2 is by no means a bad game. in comparison, MP from me gets a 10/10 while MP2 gets a 8.5, but if you compare MP2 to MP in my books, MP2 barely passes.
Maybe it was partly that MP2 didn't really add a whole lot to the series. MP was a fresh take on the series, and MP2 was just a small step further. the controls weren't really any better than the original, and there weren't a whole lot of new gameplay elements.
the EI's mutated form can be killed really fast using screw attack. try it next time. :P
I was just really comparing. I like the space pirate base parts of the games, and though they took a back seat in MP2, i felt that they could have been given a bigger role (especially due to their reprising in the third game & how they were trying to work together with the "big boss"). The Metroids in MP2 were just Tallon & dark tallon, and they also took a back seat. if you weren't looking for them, you hardly found any metroids in the game, and even if you did look, they only appeared in a handful of rooms. I felt that they were kinda boring in MP2 after comparing them to the Fission Metroids in MP, which gave me hell, but looked normal until you attacked them. :P
I would've liked a huge open desert sorta thing. but just because they made a desert interesting doesn't mean they couldn't have picked a better theme instead of a desert to work with. but then they did with sanctuary, which made up for agon (i found agon to be agonizing, lawl).
Once you got the dark suit, it was pretty easy exploration-wise. You no longer had to worry about searching for light nodules to shoot every few seconds, whereas I felt that MP gave you a bunch of puzzles throughout the game that were just generally harder overall. Again, this might just be because they re-used alot of gameplay elements (half-pipes, spinners), but there wasn't a key hidden like the artifact on top of monitor station in MP. MP felt much more complete of a game, and MP2 just felt rushed. in MP, the artifiacts that were hidden looked like someone had hidden them there. in MP2, the key carriers were just floating about in the open... they could have at least been behind rocks instead of sitting in the middle of the room.
I like debating. if it ever turns into a flame war, I butt out (lol, pun).
Oh, I get the pun!
I never realized you were comparing it to Metroid Prime!
It makes a lot more sense now!
BTW, at least you didn't have to only use the Varia Suit for long, right?
And not all of the keys were in the open! Sky temple keys were a great example of this.
Same with at least one of the Dark Agon and Ing Hives ones...
And I think there were a few more that weren't exactly out in the open...
But yes, a few were right out in the open, mostly the Dark Agon ones so it wouldn't be suicide with the Varia Suit.
Yeah, the Space Pirate base could have had a larger area. Although, the Pirates were still a nuisance.
But, about the gameplay, why would you greatly adjust a working formula, or control scheme?
because although it's a sequel, they should have come to the realization that something revolutionary stops being revolutionary after it's first outing (Mario 64, Banjo Kazooie, F-Zero X, Halo, all examples of this). I mean, the controls worked and everything, but although it works in 2d metroid to keep the same formula, in 3d games it doesn't. The only real new thing they added in MP2 was the Screw attack. everything else we had really seen already, and exploration was kinda a drag in comparison, I thought.
I don't very much like any of the Metroid Prime games. They were all very easy, actually. But the length annoyed me quite a lot as well as the limited amount of actions one could really do. I mean, okay basically all you have to do is shoot and walk. Side stepping (or dashing, forget the actual name) isn't that effective in Metroid Prime 1 and 2. The missles and missle beam combos were nearly uselss. And plus, Retro Studios thought they were so smart they decided to limit how fast you can shoot by a substantial amount with any of the beam weapons in Metroid Prime 1 and 2. Charging was actually better as well as a faster way to deplete the enemy's health. I also felt annoyed that most items were just a way to increase exploration as apposed to actually helping you defeat bosses. Fighting bosses also wasn't all that exciting because there was a very, very good chance I was going to survive.
As individual games, I think this:
Metroid Prime
Wasn't all that great and the transition from the 2D metroid games to 3D wasn't so good. I don't think that was the best one could do with the games either. The atmosphere was perfectly preserved, however. Skills were limited and I don't very well like exploration. I think this game would've done better as a book rather than a game to be honest. Because that's what it felt like, like I was just living a story. Especially with the lores. Metroid Fusion kinda had this feel too but not much which I appreciate. Music was meh. Interaction just didn't happen. And that side quest was kinda pointless to add. There's also no different path you can take, so the game was very linear to be honest.
Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
And so the 2nd Metroid Prime is made. Once again skills are limited and lots of exploration to do in this game. This game's basically like Metroid Prime 1 version 2.0. Nothing but Metroid Prime 1 but with a few things added onto it. Traveling between worlds quickly got old. Some items also become pretty pointless and just made some things easier to do, but not enabling actions. The screw attack was a real drag in this game. The side quest in this game was also very time consuming. Interaction was very limited but at least it existed. Once again this would've been better as a book rather than a game in my opinion. The appearance of Dark Samus was also very unoriginal as well as disappointing.
Metroid Prime 3: Corruption
This one had a few new things to bring to the table. Hypermode was an interesting feature and it helped with boss battles at least rather than favoring exploration. The Wii remote was also perfect for this game. I think the Wii remote could be great for any FPS-type game. Boss battles actually became a little interesting because of the Wii remote. However bosses were still very easy to beat. Interaction was pretty great for a Metroid game but it was not remarkable in general. Stackable beam combos was a nice touch. Switching beams was just pointless anyway. The cinematics were well executed. But the gameplay still wasn't that impressive. Plus this Metroid game removed one of the main things that made Metroid, well, Metroid: an escape sequence. The big explosion was at least kept in there.
i think i am going to be the only one here whos post dose not take up 3/4 of the page and say that i really do hate metroid prime 2 1 and 3 are so much better
Quote from: Oren on January 10, 2008, 09:13:20 AM
i think i am going to be the only one here whos post dose not take up 3/4 of the page and say that i really do hate metroid prime 2 1 and 3 are so much better
Trust me, Punctuation doesn't take up 3/4 of the page. Try it.
Honestly, I found Prime 2 to be a somewhat fun game, but I would not play it more than 3 times over.
A lot of the enemies were from Prime, which I liked. I LOVE throwbacks. But what made me hate that is that instead of calling Puffers Puffers, they called them by some other name (Can't remember). I love Prime 1 more and more with each old Metroid game I play, becuase I find enemies that I saw in Prime 1 (My first Metroid game, sorry :P). After playing Super Metroid and other Metroid games, playing MP1 really feels like a real Metroid game. My favorite part of Metroid games isn't the shooting. It's the puzzles, and MP1 did an outstanding job with that. I gave me a challenge. So did MP2, but a different kind. There are 2 types of challenges:
1. (Good) You have an idea of what you need to do, but it's not too obvious. You have a vague idea of how to do it. Or, it could be you just need to get past a puzzle you can't figure out.
2. (Bad) No idea what you need to do. You're basically 'stuck' in the game. You think you've tried everything, and are getting slightly frustrated.
MP1 offered many 1s and hardly any 2s. MP2 hardly gave any 1s and a couple 2s. All the 'Puzzles' in MP2 were disappointingly easy. I much preferred MP1's ammo-get system, which was 'You get what you need most'. MP2s made it frustrating, as defeating a darkling with the dark beam to get light ammo isn't too great.
MP2's atmospheres didn't feel natural like MP1. The Torvus Bog was as natural as it gets. Rolling through the roots was it. There were so many more opportunities for atmospheric uses than were implemented. The Sanctuary Fortress had nice atmosphere for the most part, but the entire game still felt like walking through a nature path.
In MP1, whenever I encountered enemies, I would kill them. And even the obnoxious Chozo Ghosts, although half of the time now, I just run. But MP2's enemies got annoying. Fast. ESPECIALLY those Dark Space Pirate Commandos. I hated how they locked the doors.
Well, that's all I have for now.
Well number 2 to me is the hardest most complex metroid game, just play it alot it might grow on you =/
For what it's worth, here's my opinion. I've read the heated discussion in this topic and I felt I had to reply.
I have got both Metroid Prime 1 and 2, and some of the other Metroid games too. I have been through both Primes at least 6 or 7 times each, and I don't get bored of playing the game "the way it was intended" (for want of a better phrase). I consider myself a hardcore Metroid fan, I visit M2K2 on a regular basis, BUT (and this is a big but) I have NO desire to either Sequence Break it or Speed Run it. I am too much of a "completist" and I have to scan absolutely everything, every time, and take my time doing it so I can be sure I've got absolutely everything. If I miss even one minor non-log book scan, it annoys me.
What I'm trying to say is that there are many different types of Metroid fans, and some are quite happy playing the game the way it's meant to be played, and then next time, playing it the same way again. Personally, I wouldn't sell either game, and I love them both. I love the Dark World, and the way the worlds link, and because of that, MP2 has the slight edge in my opinion.
"Hardcore Metroid fan" does not equal "sequence breaker / speed runner". Playing the game the same way again and again does not have to be boring. There are many people like me, who love the games and have NO desire to try and "break" the game.
EDIT: Also, the beam ammo system is required. The beams are too powerful for you to be given unlimited use of them - the Light Beam is devastating agains the Ing, and the Dark Beam is great with the freeze + missile trick. Face it, if you had unlimited use of the Light Beam in Dark Aether, it would be too easy. There needs to be a limit to the number of easy kills you can get.
HOWEVER, as long as you get the Beam Ammo expansions as they become available, you should never really have too much trouble with ammo. I never used to use the beams much at first, but now I use them all the time. The time saved by killing enemies with the Light and Dark beams is greater than the time spent shooting crates with the opposite beam to refill, so it works out nicely.
And don't bother shooting darklings with the Dark Beam. Shoot crates instead to refill. And you always get what you need when you're low - if you have no Light Ammo, for example, shooting crates with even the Power Beam can yield 30+ Light Ammo, and if you've got no missiles, you'll regularly find a Double-stacked Missile refill (10 missiles) in a crate. In reply to the person who said you get what you need in MP1, I think this is more so in MP2 for this exact reason.
Cheers,
Matt
My problem with MP2 is that once you stop playing for a long time, and you pick it up again...you have no idea what to do.
Same with MP1, actually.
Quote from: Silverhawk79 on February 06, 2008, 06:07:30 AM
My problem with MP2 is that once you stop playing for a long time, and you pick it up again...you have no idea what to do.
Same with MP1, actually.
thats really true of many games, RPGs mostly
And to the person who said Ingsmasher = Omega Pirate, that is incorrect. Ingsmasher = Elite Pirate, but with a dark / light shield. I think Dark Ingsmasher = Phazon Elite. However, there are many unique enemies, too. Just because Splinter = Beetle, Green Kralee = Zoomer doesn't mean that ALL enemies are reused. There are some very novel additions in MP2.
EDIT: And if I put the game down for a while, when I pick it up again I always start a new file. There's no point continuing half-way through if you can't remember the first half. Start again!
Cheers,
Matt
Quote from: Silverhawk79 on February 06, 2008, 06:07:30 AM
My problem with MP2 is that once you stop playing for a long time, and you pick it up again...you have no idea what to do.
Same with MP1, actually.
Yeah I know. I quit at the part where you have to find all those keys, and then when I tried playing it again I had no idea where I had to go where anything was anymore.