Poll
Question:
Should the Smash Ball be taken out of Tournaments or serious matches?
Option 1: Yes
Option 2: No
Option 3: Undecided
When it comes to tournaments or serious matches, I think the smash ball should be taken out. If its a friend match then it should stay like any other ordinary item.
No I don't think so because technically a final smash is still part of a characters move list and maybe some characters have nothing going for them except their final smash.
Quote from: WaterGod on January 19, 2008, 11:10:47 PM
No I don't think so because technically a final smash is still part of a characters move list and maybe some characters have nothing going for them except their final smash.
yea that is true
I don't know, Wait, crap, I want to change my vote, there has to be a smash ball for ZSS!
I put undecided!
Yes
Quote from: WaterGod on January 19, 2008, 11:10:47 PM
No I don't think so because technically a final smash is still part of a characters move list and maybe some characters have nothing going for them except their final smash.
DK says hi.
We've already seen how imbalanced the final smashes are, and the better characters certainly don't get weaker Final Smashes either. Look at poor DK, apparently he's hasn't changed much from Melee to Brawl and you can't honestly tell me that his FS is great.
To answer this thread creator's question, no, I don't think they will be allowed in real life major tournaments, not when money is on the line. They add the luck factor to the table, something that tournament hosts try to avoid. The Final Smash is an item as well, and as well all know, most serious tournaments do not include items.
I will enjoy playing with them on against my friends though.
*agrees with U_L*
Leave em off.
DK's final, however, encompassed 90% of a stage, far from useless.
I think they should be left off for serious matches, just like all items should. But for friendly, fun, not serious matches, leave them on.
I say leave 'em in. They're part of a chracters move list, and there are ALWAYS ways around moves. So I'm sure these pro's will figure out ways around getting hit by them. so I say leave 'em in. Besides, they're badass
If the smash ball gets taken out then that means ZSS is an illegal character. Honestly though, when the smash ball appears it's more about beating off your opponents then luck, since you have to wail on the smash ball than just grabbing it.
Quote from: Nintenfrk on January 20, 2008, 10:35:25 AM
If the smash ball gets taken out then that means ZSS is an illegal character. Honestly though, when the smash ball appears it's more about beating off your opponents then luck, since you have to wail on the smash ball than just grabbing it.
WHO THE HECK SAID THAT ZSS IS ONKY OBTAINABLE THROUGH ZAMUS' FS?
i hate it when people put a "dunno" choice for polls >_<
no, because some would give some characters such a huge advantage over others that it just wouldn't be fair, as the other character's wouldn't be able to counteract it.
a definite no for 2 vs 2 matches (because of the ones that cover the entire screen), but I dunno, the ZSS issue is one to be explored.
Probably, you know those tournament people, no things that require luck over skill.
Quote from: Jono2 on January 20, 2008, 11:18:15 AM
i hate it when people put a "dunno" choice for polls >_<
no, because some would give some characters such a huge advantage over others that it just wouldn't be fair, as the other character's wouldn't be able to counteract it.
a definite no for 2 vs 2 matches (because of the ones that cover the entire screen), but I dunno, the ZSS issue is one to be explored.
The only one that seems to have a major advantage is DK's (but only on the small stages it seems), and it does require some skill to use. Characters like Link, Ike, Meta have a one shot FS, and if you miss you can't use it. Other's move around while in the FS, and thus can be dodged such as Pikachu, Sonic, and Wario. The "blast attacks" like Mario and Samus can also be dodged, since the user has to line up a shot for it to be effective.
Also, that basically bans ZSS from any tournamnet then....
You guys don't know if Zamus can only be used with Samus's FS.
Some characters FSs are compltely broken. Giga Bowser's kick ass, plus because of regular Bowser's power, the smash ball is a ton easier to break. I remember Gimpyfish saying it only took 3 or 4 hits from Bowser to break the ball. And there is luck because of where it spawns. The smash ball could spawn right next to a character, or it could spawn far away from the character. It's sheer luck who it spawns by. It can turn a game around simply because the person was lucky enough to have a Smash Ball spawned right next to them.
As Tuppy said, tournaments are about skill, not luck. If I wanted to go play a game about luck, I would play Russian Roulette.
Quote from: Dawei on January 20, 2008, 12:01:01 PM
You guys don't know if Zamus can only be used with Samus's FS.
Some characters FSs are compltely broken. Giga Bowser's kick ass, plus because of regular Bowser's power, the smash ball is a ton easier to break. I remember Gimpyfish saying it only took 3 or 4 hits from Bowser to break the ball. And there is luck because of where it spawns. The smash ball could spawn right next to a character, or it could spawn far away from the character. It's sheer luck who it spawns by. It can turn a game around simply because the person was lucky enough to have a Smash Ball spawned right next to them.
As Tuppy said, tournaments are about skill, not luck. If I wanted to go play a game about luck, I would play Russian Roulette.
Still, the only KNOWN way to get Zamus is through the FS. Sure, it could spawn anyway (from all the E for All vids I've seen, it usually spawns in the air somewhere, but of course you know more than I do since you know ppl who've actually played it). And as far as I can tell it does actually take some skill in using (besides DK's take up half the stage in sound thing).
Quote from: Nayrman on January 20, 2008, 12:04:20 PM
Quote from: Dawei on January 20, 2008, 12:01:01 PM
You guys don't know if Zamus can only be used with Samus's FS.
Some characters FSs are compltely broken. Giga Bowser's kick ass, plus because of regular Bowser's power, the smash ball is a ton easier to break. I remember Gimpyfish saying it only took 3 or 4 hits from Bowser to break the ball. And there is luck because of where it spawns. The smash ball could spawn right next to a character, or it could spawn far away from the character. It's sheer luck who it spawns by. It can turn a game around simply because the person was lucky enough to have a Smash Ball spawned right next to them.
As Tuppy said, tournaments are about skill, not luck. If I wanted to go play a game about luck, I would play Russian Roulette.
Still, the only KNOWN way to get Zamus is through the FS. Sure, it could spawn anyway (from all the E for All vids I've seen, it usually spawns in the air somewhere, but of course you know more than I do since you know ppl who've actually played it). And as far as I can tell it does actually take some skill in using (besides DK's take up half the stage in sound thing).
It's not the skill in using it, it is the skill in getting it. There is no way you can be "skillful" enough for it to spawn by you.
Quote from: Dawei on January 20, 2008, 12:10:53 PM
Quote from: Nayrman on January 20, 2008, 12:04:20 PM
Quote from: Dawei on January 20, 2008, 12:01:01 PM
You guys don't know if Zamus can only be used with Samus's FS.
Some characters FSs are compltely broken. Giga Bowser's kick ass, plus because of regular Bowser's power, the smash ball is a ton easier to break. I remember Gimpyfish saying it only took 3 or 4 hits from Bowser to break the ball. And there is luck because of where it spawns. The smash ball could spawn right next to a character, or it could spawn far away from the character. It's sheer luck who it spawns by. It can turn a game around simply because the person was lucky enough to have a Smash Ball spawned right next to them.
As Tuppy said, tournaments are about skill, not luck. If I wanted to go play a game about luck, I would play Russian Roulette.
Still, the only KNOWN way to get Zamus is through the FS. Sure, it could spawn anyway (from all the E for All vids I've seen, it usually spawns in the air somewhere, but of course you know more than I do since you know ppl who've actually played it). And as far as I can tell it does actually take some skill in using (besides DK's take up half the stage in sound thing).
It's not the skill in using it, it is the skill in getting it. There is no way you can be "skillful" enough for it to spawn by you.
You still have to hit it enough to get the smash ball though. Even if it should appear next to a Bowser, he still has to hit it the 3-4 times you said needed to get it. And with Sonic, Fox's, etc.'s speed they could just run over and grab it before that happens.
Quote from: Nayrman on January 20, 2008, 12:16:47 PM
Quote from: Dawei on January 20, 2008, 12:10:53 PM
Quote from: Nayrman on January 20, 2008, 12:04:20 PM
Quote from: Dawei on January 20, 2008, 12:01:01 PM
You guys don't know if Zamus can only be used with Samus's FS.
Some characters FSs are compltely broken. Giga Bowser's kick ass, plus because of regular Bowser's power, the smash ball is a ton easier to break. I remember Gimpyfish saying it only took 3 or 4 hits from Bowser to break the ball. And there is luck because of where it spawns. The smash ball could spawn right next to a character, or it could spawn far away from the character. It's sheer luck who it spawns by. It can turn a game around simply because the person was lucky enough to have a Smash Ball spawned right next to them.
As Tuppy said, tournaments are about skill, not luck. If I wanted to go play a game about luck, I would play Russian Roulette.
Still, the only KNOWN way to get Zamus is through the FS. Sure, it could spawn anyway (from all the E for All vids I've seen, it usually spawns in the air somewhere, but of course you know more than I do since you know ppl who've actually played it). And as far as I can tell it does actually take some skill in using (besides DK's take up half the stage in sound thing).
It's not the skill in using it, it is the skill in getting it. There is no way you can be "skillful" enough for it to spawn by you.
You still have to hit it enough to get the smash ball though. Even if it should appear next to a Bowser, he still has to hit it the 3-4 times you said needed to get it. And with Sonic, Fox's, etc.'s speed they could just run over and grab it before that happens.
But they would still have to damage it, and even though they get to the ball, while they are attacking with their petty attacks Bowser could get it from one of them. Or, if you are good enough at shffling (and any other advanced techniques discovered that will help you attack quicker) the Bowser could be fast enough to get it anyway.
Quote from: Dawei on January 20, 2008, 12:23:57 PM
Quote from: Nayrman on January 20, 2008, 12:16:47 PM
Quote from: Dawei on January 20, 2008, 12:10:53 PM
Quote from: Nayrman on January 20, 2008, 12:04:20 PM
Quote from: Dawei on January 20, 2008, 12:01:01 PM
You guys don't know if Zamus can only be used with Samus's FS.
Some characters FSs are compltely broken. Giga Bowser's kick ass, plus because of regular Bowser's power, the smash ball is a ton easier to break. I remember Gimpyfish saying it only took 3 or 4 hits from Bowser to break the ball. And there is luck because of where it spawns. The smash ball could spawn right next to a character, or it could spawn far away from the character. It's sheer luck who it spawns by. It can turn a game around simply because the person was lucky enough to have a Smash Ball spawned right next to them.
As Tuppy said, tournaments are about skill, not luck. If I wanted to go play a game about luck, I would play Russian Roulette.
Still, the only KNOWN way to get Zamus is through the FS. Sure, it could spawn anyway (from all the E for All vids I've seen, it usually spawns in the air somewhere, but of course you know more than I do since you know ppl who've actually played it). And as far as I can tell it does actually take some skill in using (besides DK's take up half the stage in sound thing).
It's not the skill in using it, it is the skill in getting it. There is no way you can be "skillful" enough for it to spawn by you.
You still have to hit it enough to get the smash ball though. Even if it should appear next to a Bowser, he still has to hit it the 3-4 times you said needed to get it. And with Sonic, Fox's, etc.'s speed they could just run over and grab it before that happens.
But they would still have to damage it, and even though they get to the ball, while they are attacking with their petty attacks Bowser could get it from one of them. Or, if you are good enough at shffling (and any other advanced techniques discovered that will help you attack quicker) the Bowser could be fast enough to get it anyway.
BUT, he has to be SKILLFUL enough to actually get it before the others! ;)
Quote from: Dawei on January 20, 2008, 12:23:57 PM
Quote from: Nayrman on January 20, 2008, 12:16:47 PM
Quote from: Dawei on January 20, 2008, 12:10:53 PM
Quote from: Nayrman on January 20, 2008, 12:04:20 PM
Quote from: Dawei on January 20, 2008, 12:01:01 PM
You guys don't know if Zamus can only be used with Samus's FS.
Some characters FSs are compltely broken. Giga Bowser's kick ass, plus because of regular Bowser's power, the smash ball is a ton easier to break. I remember Gimpyfish saying it only took 3 or 4 hits from Bowser to break the ball. And there is luck because of where it spawns. The smash ball could spawn right next to a character, or it could spawn far away from the character. It's sheer luck who it spawns by. It can turn a game around simply because the person was lucky enough to have a Smash Ball spawned right next to them.
As Tuppy said, tournaments are about skill, not luck. If I wanted to go play a game about luck, I would play Russian Roulette.
Still, the only KNOWN way to get Zamus is through the FS. Sure, it could spawn anyway (from all the E for All vids I've seen, it usually spawns in the air somewhere, but of course you know more than I do since you know ppl who've actually played it). And as far as I can tell it does actually take some skill in using (besides DK's take up half the stage in sound thing).
It's not the skill in using it, it is the skill in getting it. There is no way you can be "skillful" enough for it to spawn by you.
You still have to hit it enough to get the smash ball though. Even if it should appear next to a Bowser, he still has to hit it the 3-4 times you said needed to get it. And with Sonic, Fox's, etc.'s speed they could just run over and grab it before that happens.
But they would still have to damage it, and even though they get to the ball, while they are attacking with their petty attacks Bowser could get it from one of them. Or, if you are good enough at shffling (and any other advanced techniques discovered that will help you attack quicker) the Bowser could be fast enough to get it anyway.
You also seem to forget that hte smash ball moves around the entire stage (at least in your posts you make it sounds like it just sits there).
I guess we won't know until the game comes out, but overall I think it'll stay and the item switch will severly limit it or something. So far it's the only way to get ZSS, and we cant' ban a character because of an item....
im still thinking that ZSSamus will also be available without the use of a smash ball.
Quote from: Shujinco on January 20, 2008, 12:25:07 PM
Quote from: Dawei on January 20, 2008, 12:23:57 PM
Quote from: Nayrman on January 20, 2008, 12:16:47 PM
Quote from: Dawei on January 20, 2008, 12:10:53 PM
Quote from: Nayrman on January 20, 2008, 12:04:20 PM
Quote from: Dawei on January 20, 2008, 12:01:01 PM
You guys don't know if Zamus can only be used with Samus's FS.
Some characters FSs are compltely broken. Giga Bowser's kick ass, plus because of regular Bowser's power, the smash ball is a ton easier to break. I remember Gimpyfish saying it only took 3 or 4 hits from Bowser to break the ball. And there is luck because of where it spawns. The smash ball could spawn right next to a character, or it could spawn far away from the character. It's sheer luck who it spawns by. It can turn a game around simply because the person was lucky enough to have a Smash Ball spawned right next to them.
As Tuppy said, tournaments are about skill, not luck. If I wanted to go play a game about luck, I would play Russian Roulette.
Still, the only KNOWN way to get Zamus is through the FS. Sure, it could spawn anyway (from all the E for All vids I've seen, it usually spawns in the air somewhere, but of course you know more than I do since you know ppl who've actually played it). And as far as I can tell it does actually take some skill in using (besides DK's take up half the stage in sound thing).
It's not the skill in using it, it is the skill in getting it. There is no way you can be "skillful" enough for it to spawn by you.
You still have to hit it enough to get the smash ball though. Even if it should appear next to a Bowser, he still has to hit it the 3-4 times you said needed to get it. And with Sonic, Fox's, etc.'s speed they could just run over and grab it before that happens.
But they would still have to damage it, and even though they get to the ball, while they are attacking with their petty attacks Bowser could get it from one of them. Or, if you are good enough at shffling (and any other advanced techniques discovered that will help you attack quicker) the Bowser could be fast enough to get it anyway.
BUT, he has to be SKILLFUL enough to actually get it before the others! ;)
Did you read anything I just said? It doesn't take skill for it to spawn next to you. You get a large advantage if it spawns near you. You could be the most skilled person in the world, but your opponent was lucky enough for it to spawn next to him and he gets it. Does that mean the person who it spawned near is actually a better player?
Nayrman, I know it moves, but it isn't like a super speed or something or other. Unless you have horrible, horrible reflexes you have more than enough time to rack hits on it, and, depending on your character, break it.
Quote from: Dawei on January 20, 2008, 12:57:51 PM
Quote from: Shujinco on January 20, 2008, 12:25:07 PM
Quote from: Dawei on January 20, 2008, 12:23:57 PM
Quote from: Nayrman on January 20, 2008, 12:16:47 PM
Quote from: Dawei on January 20, 2008, 12:10:53 PM
Quote from: Nayrman on January 20, 2008, 12:04:20 PM
Quote from: Dawei on January 20, 2008, 12:01:01 PM
You guys don't know if Zamus can only be used with Samus's FS.
Some characters FSs are compltely broken. Giga Bowser's kick ass, plus because of regular Bowser's power, the smash ball is a ton easier to break. I remember Gimpyfish saying it only took 3 or 4 hits from Bowser to break the ball. And there is luck because of where it spawns. The smash ball could spawn right next to a character, or it could spawn far away from the character. It's sheer luck who it spawns by. It can turn a game around simply because the person was lucky enough to have a Smash Ball spawned right next to them.
As Tuppy said, tournaments are about skill, not luck. If I wanted to go play a game about luck, I would play Russian Roulette.
Still, the only KNOWN way to get Zamus is through the FS. Sure, it could spawn anyway (from all the E for All vids I've seen, it usually spawns in the air somewhere, but of course you know more than I do since you know ppl who've actually played it). And as far as I can tell it does actually take some skill in using (besides DK's take up half the stage in sound thing).
It's not the skill in using it, it is the skill in getting it. There is no way you can be "skillful" enough for it to spawn by you.
You still have to hit it enough to get the smash ball though. Even if it should appear next to a Bowser, he still has to hit it the 3-4 times you said needed to get it. And with Sonic, Fox's, etc.'s speed they could just run over and grab it before that happens.
But they would still have to damage it, and even though they get to the ball, while they are attacking with their petty attacks Bowser could get it from one of them. Or, if you are good enough at shffling (and any other advanced techniques discovered that will help you attack quicker) the Bowser could be fast enough to get it anyway.
BUT, he has to be SKILLFUL enough to actually get it before the others! ;)
Did you read anything I just said? It doesn't take skill for it to spawn next to you. You get a large advantage if it spawns near you. You could be the most skilled person in the world, but your opponent was lucky enough for it to spawn next to him and he gets it. Does that mean the person who it spawned near is actually a better player?
Nayrman, I know it moves, but it isn't like a super speed or something or other. Unless you have horrible, horrible reflexes you have more than enough time to rack hits on it, and, depending on your character, break it.
So...That would mean Peach, Luigi and Mr. G&W are banned from tournies just because they have moves that can be INCREDIBLY powerful do to luck, even though those are moves?
Quote from: Shujinco on January 20, 2008, 01:01:31 PM
Quote from: Dawei on January 20, 2008, 12:57:51 PM
Quote from: Shujinco on January 20, 2008, 12:25:07 PM
Quote from: Dawei on January 20, 2008, 12:23:57 PM
Quote from: Nayrman on January 20, 2008, 12:16:47 PM
Quote from: Dawei on January 20, 2008, 12:10:53 PM
Quote from: Nayrman on January 20, 2008, 12:04:20 PM
Quote from: Dawei on January 20, 2008, 12:01:01 PM
You guys don't know if Zamus can only be used with Samus's FS.
Some characters FSs are compltely broken. Giga Bowser's kick ass, plus because of regular Bowser's power, the smash ball is a ton easier to break. I remember Gimpyfish saying it only took 3 or 4 hits from Bowser to break the ball. And there is luck because of where it spawns. The smash ball could spawn right next to a character, or it could spawn far away from the character. It's sheer luck who it spawns by. It can turn a game around simply because the person was lucky enough to have a Smash Ball spawned right next to them.
As Tuppy said, tournaments are about skill, not luck. If I wanted to go play a game about luck, I would play Russian Roulette.
Still, the only KNOWN way to get Zamus is through the FS. Sure, it could spawn anyway (from all the E for All vids I've seen, it usually spawns in the air somewhere, but of course you know more than I do since you know ppl who've actually played it). And as far as I can tell it does actually take some skill in using (besides DK's take up half the stage in sound thing).
It's not the skill in using it, it is the skill in getting it. There is no way you can be "skillful" enough for it to spawn by you.
You still have to hit it enough to get the smash ball though. Even if it should appear next to a Bowser, he still has to hit it the 3-4 times you said needed to get it. And with Sonic, Fox's, etc.'s speed they could just run over and grab it before that happens.
But they would still have to damage it, and even though they get to the ball, while they are attacking with their petty attacks Bowser could get it from one of them. Or, if you are good enough at shffling (and any other advanced techniques discovered that will help you attack quicker) the Bowser could be fast enough to get it anyway.
BUT, he has to be SKILLFUL enough to actually get it before the others! ;)
Did you read anything I just said? It doesn't take skill for it to spawn next to you. You get a large advantage if it spawns near you. You could be the most skilled person in the world, but your opponent was lucky enough for it to spawn next to him and he gets it. Does that mean the person who it spawned near is actually a better player?
Nayrman, I know it moves, but it isn't like a super speed or something or other. Unless you have horrible, horrible reflexes you have more than enough time to rack hits on it, and, depending on your character, break it.
So...That would mean Peach, Luigi and Mr. G&W are banned from tournies just because they have moves that can be INCREDIBLY powerful do to luck, even though those are moves?
Those moves are on them, they are not the result of something extra. The only thing you should need to win is what you have, not what you are given.
Quote from: Shujinco on January 20, 2008, 01:01:31 PM
So...That would mean Peach, Luigi and Mr. G&W are banned from tournies just because they have moves that can be INCREDIBLY powerful do to luck, even though those are moves?
The odds of dying from a stitch face or a misfire are a lot lower than you dying from a smash ball.
You forget that misfires don't always pop out at the most convenient time. Sometimes they end up hurting you more than helping you out and so that balances it out. Try making a misfire at Yoshi Story after you have used your second jump, good luck trying to survive from that. Also, the misfire can be easily avoided, or it can get deflected or smacked off.
As for the stitch face, you can grab it when they throw it at you. They aren't broken characters so there's no need to ban them. The only time someone would consider banning a character is if he completely annihilates the entire roster.
The smash ball appears at random times, as you've noticed from videos. You need to also consider that they could also come out when an opponent is trying to recover to the stage. That gives him no chance of ever getting it, and it could really screw things up for him should his opponent decide to take his stock first, and then use it as soon as he spawns. The smash ball is not always going to appear when both characters are on the stage, it could also appear at the most inappropriate time, where only one person has the chance to get it and that could really change the tide of the match.
Quote from: Ultra_Luigi on January 20, 2008, 01:14:59 AM
Quote from: WaterGod on January 19, 2008, 11:10:47 PM
No I don't think so because technically a final smash is still part of a characters move list and maybe some characters have nothing going for them except their final smash.
DK says hi.
We've already seen how imbalanced the final smashes are, and the better characters certainly don't get weaker Final Smashes either. Look at poor DK, apparently he's hasn't changed much from Melee to Brawl and you can't honestly tell me that his FS is great.
To answer this thread creator's question, no, I don't think they will be allowed in real life major tournaments, not when money is on the line. They add the luck factor to the table, something that tournament hosts try to avoid. The Final Smash is an item as well, and as well all know, most serious tournaments do not include items.
I will enjoy playing with them on against my friends though.
I hate these ignorant posters...
No one knows how to use DK's FS right... You must press the attack buttons at a certain beat. As you get the beat going, the shockwave will get bigger, taking up almost 90% of the average stage.
Quote from: TamJammerz on January 20, 2008, 01:39:03 PM
I hate these ignorant posters...
No one knows how to use DK's FS right... You must press the attack buttons at a certain beat. As you get the beat going, the shockwave will get bigger, taking up almost 90% of the average stage.
The point I was trying to make is that the weaker characters don't get the best Final Smashes, Sonic is a great example.
Try not to insult someone before you correct them. You could simply tell me that I'm wrong and explain why. ;)
Quote from: Nayrman on January 20, 2008, 11:23:28 AM
Quote from: Jono2 on January 20, 2008, 11:18:15 AM
i hate it when people put a "dunno" choice for polls >_<
no, because some would give some characters such a huge advantage over others that it just wouldn't be fair, as the other character's wouldn't be able to counteract it.
a definite no for 2 vs 2 matches (because of the ones that cover the entire screen), but I dunno, the ZSS issue is one to be explored.
The only one that seems to have a major advantage is DK's (but only on the small stages it seems), and it does require some skill to use. Characters like Link, Ike, Meta have a one shot FS, and if you miss you can't use it. Other's move around while in the FS, and thus can be dodged such as Pikachu, Sonic, and Wario. The "blast attacks" like Mario and Samus can also be dodged, since the user has to line up a shot for it to be effective.
Also, that basically bans ZSS from any tournamnet then....
I really doubt that ZSS will only be playable via a FS.