Out of the three, which one do you think looks the most promising?
Project Natal looks like something that could work very well if it's done right, and scanning in things as well as stuff like voice recognition and how it can memorize voices/faces seems cool, but it seems like the kind of thing that's still a few years away and won't be as good in practice as on paper. Hopefully it can be put to use on more than just tech demos.
Sony's alternative looks great, true 1:1 motion capture, super accurate to within millimeters, and 3D movement. It actually has buttons unlike Project Natal because even Sony realized Eyetoy was very flawed and some things have to have a button. That glowing orb on the end, is it needed? If it's not, it still looks cool, I hope they keep it on there. Has lots of potential, I think it tracks the whole body as well, i.e walk in the real world, walk in the game.
Wii Motion+, what is there to say? It gives full 1:1 movement, which I thought was supposed to be in the remote anyway. Zelda Wii and Red Steel 2 will support it, and it of course comes with Wii Sports Resort. Obviously would be supported a lot, but what is it going to be supported by after the initial group of announced titles to use it?
What's your opinions on all these motion control options?
For now, I can say 2 words...
MOTION WARS! :D
I can only comment on Project Natal, as that's the only one i've seen.
The motion capture part is lame in my opinion, until we get full virtual reality, I want to sit my ass on the couch and press buttons. The voice recognition part on the other hand is pretty awesome. If it's like what it is in the video they showed of the girl talking to that kid on the tv, that has some real promise, but I have feeling it won't be as good as that.
Motion wand does not track your movement besides the wand itself. Walk in the real world, move motion controlled mechanism in the game world forward.
It could track your movement in the sense that if the wand moves forward, the character moves forward.
It like a more sophisticated WiiMote basically.
Sony's wand. It's what I wanted the Wiimote to be in the first place.
Natal just seems gimmicky. Sony themselves said the Eyetoy was flawed because you need buttons for some things, and all Natal is is a glorified Eyetoy.
Motion+ is a bad move on Nintendo's part. This technology should have been in the Wiimote from the start. Since it's coming out so late and as an attachment, not many games will support it.
Wii Motion + and Sony's wands are the same thing. People think Sony's thing is new, cause the console didn't already have it and that had that cool looking simulator, but they're still both 1:1 wand things.
I say Natal is best cause it's actually something new (and even that could be argued against, considering PS2 had EyeToy and even 360 has already had the camera thing).
Also, Tsumaru, the Motion + is not a bad move; in fact, it's a necessary move.
1. While we may have wanted it earlier, the fact that it finally IS here doesn't make it worse... it's just delayed.
2. As delayed as it seems, Microsoft & Sony's motion sensors are coming out even later, yet I don't see complaints on that end.
3. The fact that Microsoft and Sony are getting motion, COMBINED WITH the fact that they're stronger consoles with better graphics, means that Nintendo is completely screwed if they stay both weak AND non-1:1. They need Motion + now more than ever.
The 360 Camera is basically the equivalent to a Webcam, and may have had some games utilize it a bit, but you can't really compare it to Project Natal.
Honestly at this point I can't decide. There's so much potential technologically speaking with Natal, but does that mean the games will be fun? Not so sure.
Talking to AI's isn't exactly my idea of fun.
IGN got to use NATAL hands on (err, hands off) in order to play Burn Out Paradise, and they said it works even better than it looked in the initial reveal. So yeah, it'll be fun.
Natal.
And I've already accepted Miloh as my ruler and master as he will enslave the world.
Seriously though I think that it looks really fun. And has many uses. (But if it turns X-Box into the next Health through gaming system I swear)
Sony's wand. It's what the Wiimote should've always been. Something that actually works.
WMP still looks a bit faulty, while Sony is fixing all possible bugs and motion problems BEFORE release (glares at Nintendo for blech technology).
Natal looks good, but like the Eye Toy, a button-less controller that's pure motion will always have problems. However, it still looks like it'll be fun as hell.
Milo is truly amazing, it really shows off what Natal is capable of. I can't wait for that.
Quote from: Nayrman on June 04, 2009, 04:20:41 PM
Sony's wand. It's what the Wiimote should've always been. Something that actually works.
WMP still looks a bit faulty, while Sony is fixing all possible bugs and motion problems BEFORE release (glares at Nintendo for blech technology).
Natal looks good, but like the Eye Toy, a button-less controller that's pure motion will always have problems. However, it still looks like it'll be fun as hell.
You seem to complain a lot about WM+, and yet you praise Sony's wands. May I just remind you that Nintendo came out with a full-library-compatible motion controller
first, followed quickly by the PS3's far less popular/useful motion control, and that now Nintendo is taking first advantage of new 1:1 motion tech,
once again quickly followed by what will probably be a far less popular PS3 equivalent. The Glow Wand only looks better because they had that big item demo set up, rather than only showing you specific games, and because of the fact that it looks newer, rather than being an attachment.
I'd consider it a
good thing for Nintendo that they only need to do a quick add-on to what they already have while Sony needs a whole new development and controller. It also seems to me that Sony has nothing better to do than copy Nintendo's ideas without really improving them, when what they really need to focus on is the thing causing the PS3 to sell so badly: the freaking price. They can have a stronger console and rip-off controls, but they'll keep doing relatively badly as long as they still lack Nintendo's mascot list, gamer history, fun-for-all casual attitude, and price range. And yes, gamers care about fun while the companies can care about competition, but I'm pretty sure it's been proven by now that most gamers prefer Wii or Xbox 360 anyway. And in case you don't think I know what I'm talking about in terms of winning the current-gen battle, here's some numbers from this month's Game Informer: 360=28M units, PS3=22M units, Wii=50M units.
As for Natal, Milo seems disturbingly awesome, but I don't know if that will keep the console at maximum efficiency until 2015 like Microsoft thinks it will. Natal's just a stronger EyeToy; the AI of Milo should be the real money maker (or enslaver of humanity, considering how many times Hollywood and B-list authors have warned us about this stuff).
Quote from: SmashBro25 on June 05, 2009, 12:57:39 PM
You seem to complain a lot about WM+, and yet you praise Sony's wands. May I just remind you that Nintendo came out with a full-library-compatible motion controller first, followed quickly by the PS3's far less popular/useful motion control, and that now Nintendo is taking first advantage of new 1:1 motion tech, once again quickly followed by what will probably be a far less popular PS3 equivalent. The Glow Wand only looks better because they had that big item demo set up, rather than only showing you specific games, and because of the fact that it looks newer, rather than being an attachment.
I'd consider it a good thing for Nintendo that they only need to do a quick add-on to what they already have while Sony needs a whole new development and controller. It also seems to me that Sony has nothing better to do than copy Nintendo's ideas without really improving them, when what they really need to focus on is the thing causing the PS3 to sell so badly: the freaking price. They can have a stronger console and rip-off controls, but they'll keep doing relatively badly as long as they still lack Nintendo's mascot list, gamer history, fun-for-all casual attitude, and price range. And yes, gamers care about fun while the companies can care about competition, but I'm pretty sure it's been proven by now that most gamers prefer Wii or Xbox 360 anyway. And in case you don't think I know what I'm talking about in terms of winning the current-gen battle, here's some numbers from this month's Game Informer: 360=28M units, PS3=22M units, Wii=50M units.
As for Natal, Milo seems disturbingly awesome, but I don't know if that will keep the console at maximum efficiency until 2015 like Microsoft thinks it will. Natal's just a stronger EyeToy; the AI of Milo should be the real money maker (or enslaver of humanity, considering how many times Hollywood and B-list authors have warned us about this stuff).
Please show me where the WMP has been used in any game where it's actually needed. Oh wait, three sports games (two tennis) and a minigame package. Besides, the WMP isn't 1:1 either. It's still based on gravity causing a lot of problems.
Finally, I like Sony's remote best since it looks like they're actually using it for actual games, you know, the things they're supposed to be used for? Minigame packages and licensed gimmicks isn't the way to go about this. We'll be seeing more developed games for the other two controllers since both seem to do what the Wii remote was supposed to do in teh first place, and the systems have the necessary core base to fully develop games around them, not just one hour tech demos or minuscule involvement in games at all. (BTW, the "Fun-for-all casual attitude" is what's killing the Wii in terms of importance to core audiences, as well as the overall rating of games. Despite Wii having the most games, the system has the lowest average on review sites and user feedback per game of all three systems).
I know the sales numbers, but you can't just look at total sales numbers. The entirety of the 360 base is in the United States and Canada. Microsoft does atrociously in Japan, and only marginally well in Europe (Sony has done much better in both regions). Also, the PS3 has outsold the Wii for a good period of time in Japan now. This is due to actually having consistent, non-shovelware titles released. Yes, the Wii will likely "win the console war", however, due to it's limited capabilities the second anything remotely better (such as Natal and Sony's wand), it'll be beyond outdated.
However, I do agree that it's the price that's killing the PS3 right now. However, we saw something somewhat similar for the PS2 during it's launch. However, the PS2 had the benefit of having the next form of media distribution in DVD's, while the PS3 is a Blu-Ray player. However, if PS2's lifespan is any indication, the PS3 can last a long time too. Remember, as game development continually gets larger and larger, Sony's Blu-Ray disc can easily outlast both the Wii and 360 in storage format, which come three to five years from now, could force Microsoft and Nintendo's hand while the PS3 could already be up to date in that regard. Just an idea floating around though.
The PS3 is in for the long run, it will be Sony's primary system for at least three or four more years. The Wii will last even longer, but it won't be Nintendo's primary system.
Quote from: Tupin on June 05, 2009, 01:28:59 PM
The PS3 is in for the long run, it will be Sony's primary system for at least three or four more years. The Wii will last even longer, but it won't be Nintendo's primary system.
I
seriously doubt the Wii will last even longer. Even from the moment it was released, the technology powering it was outdated. The PS2 had good technology when it came out, and it became easily adaptable (thus allowing it to basically have every game released that generation outside Halo and Nintendo made games). The Wii barely gets any ports, because of the control scheme. But that's just my thoughts.
I think project natal looks really cool and would work well if they did it right. In the trailer there was no glitching or lag or anything, how did it detect the one girl steering the car when there were like 4 people around her doing stuff? This looks cool and so does the scanning of an object so you can use like a skateboard for a skateboard game etc.
Quote from: Mutilator on June 05, 2009, 02:11:08 PM
I think project natal looks really cool and would work well if they did it right. In the trailer there was no glitching or lag or anything, how did it detect the one girl steering the car when there were like 4 people around her doing stuff? This looks cool and so does the scanning of an object so you can use like a skateboard for a skateboard game etc.
The camera focuses on her, similar to auto-focus on modern cameras. It's set up to register the people it's meant to register. If something isn't registered with the Natal, then it gets ignored.
@Nayrman (I don't want a quote tower):
Red Steel 2 has already been shown to use WMP pretty well, and I'm sure Nintendo's good games like Galaxy 2, Other M, and Zelda Wii will take advantage as well. And all I saw of Sony's wands was the tech demo; what specific games have been announced for that (I know they said it would be cool to use it in Ratchet and stuff like that, but what specific official games did they mention)?
Oh, and please stop saying "What the Wii should have done in the first place," because that's not true at all. Nintendo knew fully well that it wasn't 1:1 when they released it, and they probably couldn't have made it 1:1 when they released it, but it still worked fine, and this is simply an upgrade; they were not supposed to do anything at all. Heck, they actually went above and beyond by starting this whole motion craze. Starting something great that no competition currently has and improving on it when the tech is good enough and the competition starts catching up is not a mistake, and I don't see why you think it is. I also don't see you complaining about, or even noticing, the fact that the PS3's first motion controller was even worse than the Wiimote and the fact that their new Wands, like Nintendo's Wii Motion Plus, are simply an update on something that was basically already there.
*likes to note that Nintendo didn't even have a tech demo when they first showed the Wiimote*
Besides, Sony demonstrated how it could be used in games such as a RTS example, a adventure/swordfighting example, etc. Yea no official games were mentioned, but the thing doesn't even have a solid release date.
Of course Nintendo will use the WMP, if they don't NO ONE will. Besides EA and one SEGA and one Ubisoft game, no one seems to really care much about the WMP. Besides, three sports games and a minigame package definitely overshadow one good looking game.
That IS what the Wiimote should have done in the first place since the way it was launched is frankly, pretty faulty. Sure, simple pointing and very direct left/right up/down works fine. But try to do anything fancy and the thing falls apart. Look at Twilight Princess' "sword fighting". It's basically just a replacement of button pressing for remote waggling, and this is the case for the vast majority of Wii games that try to use any sort of complex motion.
Actually, in an interview about the WMP **I believe it was during one of Iwata Asks articles** the dev team said it could go to 1:1 if they did some drastic changes to the Wiimote, but it would cost too much. (but then again this is the company selling simple gyro's and an analog stick for 60 bucks, so I don't see how they're complaining about cost **end of wise-crack**).
How did they go above and beyond exactly? Of all the games made by Nintendo, only Metroid Prime 3 was built up for the Wii and actually makes good use of the Wiimote. TP was a modified Cube game, Galaxy only uses a pointer and three mini-games, Brawl and Mario Kart frankly control better the traditional way.
Besides, you do realize how the Wiimote and the casual audience came about right? Because Nintendo knew they couldn't compete with Xbox and Sony in the traditional sense anymore. Yes, both of them are almost blatantly copying at this point, I'm not defending that. At least as far as Natal's hands on demos go and Sony getting help from the guy who helped make the Wii Remote, I think we both know that assuming good games actually come out for it, both of their peripherals will be much more accurate and fun to use than Nintendo's gyro.
Actually the biggest problem with the Six Axis was that no one could code it for poop since the idea came out last minute. But yea, the six axis sucked big time. At least it was abandoned early instead of what the vast majority of what Wii games have become (gimmicky messes that control for crap).
Conduit and all of HVS's products look great. However, I really need to see a full blown big game that isn't a shooter that actually works for the darn thing. So far I haven't seen a single game that truly takes advantage of the Wii's hardware. (No More Heroes probably being the only exception). Although I'll blame third parties mostly for that.
Why bother taking chances on a revolutionary game that may not sell when you can put out a game that is a safe bet and make a fortune?
Most companies think like that, and quite frankly, it's not only ruining the game industry, but pretty much every other facet of the entertainment industry as well. Sure, it's an easy way to make money for now, but it robs the industry of creativity and eventually the consumers will realize that there are better alternatives and take their money elsewhere.
Smaller companies usually make the revolutionary games because they really have nothing to lose, and have no hype around them so they can take as long as they need without higher-ups pushing for completion of a project.
Quote from: Tupin on June 05, 2009, 03:27:34 PM
Why bother taking chances on a revolutionary game that may not sell when you can put out a game that is a safe bet and make a fortune?
Most companies think like that, and quite frankly, it's not only ruining the game industry, but pretty much every other facet of the entertainment industry as well. Sure, it's an easy way to make money for now, but it robs the industry of creativity and eventually the consumers will realize that there are better alternatives and take their money elsewhere.
Smaller companies usually make the revolutionary games because they really have nothing to lose, and have no hype around them so they can take as long as they need without higher-ups pushing for completion of a project.
You do realize that argument actually benefits my side since the there are more Wii games that are basically just desperate attempts to cash in on Nintendo's current popularity, while the worst of the PS3/360 is still better than the worst of the Wii.
That last paragraph really has no bearing since Nintendo is the largest videogame development studio in Japan. Although I do understand. BUY TIM SCHAFFER'S PSYCHONAUTS AND BRUTAL LEGEND!
Miyamoto himself said that Japan basically has no small dev studios like Europe and America, because Nintendo/Sony/Capcom/Konami either run them out of business or, more likely, buy them out.
I would actually challenge that claim that the worst of the PS3/360 would be the best of the Wii. Ever play Mobile Suit Gundam: Crossfire or Bullet Witch? Those would be crap if they were on the PS1. Still, I see your point. Developers develop for Wii because it's technically running last gen hardware and it's easy to make games for an audience that doesn't know much about games, which means they don't have to try as hard. A bad game on PS3/360 is usually due to a rushed job or lack of effort caused by delays or internal problems, not judging the audience of a game and basing the effort put into it on the naivety of casual game players.
Bad games this generation seem to be REALLY bad. There were only a few games last gen that are as bad as the many bad games there are this gen. It's not just on Wii, it's on all systems. Then again, good games seem to be really good, so I guess it's a balance.
Actually I said the worst of the PS3/360 are better than the WORST of the Wii. (and to that extent I've found the best on the PS3/360 to be better than the best on the Wii, outside of Prime 3 and No More Heroes which can hold their own).
Yes, this generation seems to have a lot more "bad" games the the last couple gens. Although that probably extends to N64/PS1 being the first 3D consoles, the Cube/PS2/Xbox perfecting a lot of the 3D aspects. This gen has basically seen the coming of digital distribution and online (outside of a certain console of course).
It'll be an interesting couple of years though for the Wii. Because frankly, unless this motion control really pans out (in which it'll help Sony and Microsoft too), then Nintendo is good to go back to more core games, since at this point they're almost blatantly pandering to a less knowlegeable crowd. Not saying that isn't a bad strategy for money right now, but honestly, if it doesn't work out, Nintendo could go through a crash that could be even worse than 1983...