NSFCD

It's been a little under half a year since the last tier list, and though the top two have retained their overall rankings, practically everyone below them's been shaken up a bit. For this version of the tier list, I headed up the project using an experimental method to organize the ordering.

First, votes were tallied for each character to belong to one of three "super tiers" - High, Middle, and Low. From there, more specific voting was made in each of the "super tiers" and then divided into smaller tiers as necessary. The ones originally in High have been distributed among S and A Tiers, the ones in Middle went to B, C, and D, and the ones in Low were placed in E and F.

In particular, the voting on High was on specific ordering of character-by-character, while the Middle and Low were done by categorical sorting. To that end, while characters in Tiers B through F may be, to some point, considered near each other in level when in the same tier, the same should not be applied to those in Tiers S and A. Meta Knight was overall voted better than Snake, who was overall voted above Wario, who was overall voted over Falco, and so on.

Further discussion was done at the end of the fourth week, when the entire list had been voted on and put together, on any post-creation changes. Pokémon Trainer and Ike were bumped up from E Tier to D Tier, and Wario, Falco, Diddy Kong, and Dedede were deemed strong enough characters to join S Tier. Actual individual ordering of characters was left unchanged, though there was quite a bit of discussion regarding Kirby and Lucario (FORESHADOWING FOR VERSION 4?!?!).

ADDENDUM: Also, D Tier may be considered a borderline Middle/Low Tier. We leave it up to the Tournament Organizer's discretion on deciding whether or not to include D Tier for low tier events.

Any specific questions regarding the voting process of this tier list I will try to answer as soon as I am able. The following is the final copy of the third SBR-B created Brawl Tier List.





Condensed Version
S: Meta Knight, Snake, Wario, Falco, Diddy Kong, King Dedede
A: Marth, Mr. Game & Watch, Pikachu, Olimar, Ice Climbers, R.O.B., Kirby
B: Lucario, Zero Suit Samus, Toon Link, Pit, Donkey Kong
C: Peach, Luigi, Fox, Wolf, Sonic, Sheik
D: Bowser, Zelda, Pokémon Trainer, Ike
E: Lucas, Mario, Ness, Yoshi, Samus
F: Jigglypuff, Captain Falcon, Link, Ganondorf


TIER LIST PLACE MOVEMENT


Meta Knight
=
1. to 1.


Snake
=
2. to 2.

Wario
+ 5
8. to 3.

Falco
- 1
3. to 4.

Diddy Kong
+ 2
7. to 5.

King Dedede
- 2
4. to 6.

Marth
- 1
6. to 7.


Mr. Game & Watch
- 3
5. to 8.

Pikachu
+ 3
12. to 9.

Olimar
=
10. to 10.

Ice Climbers
+ 4
15. to 11.


R.O.B.
- 3
9. to 12.

Kirby
=
13. to 13.

Lucario
- 4
10. to 14.

Zero Suit Samus
+ 1
16. to 15.

Toon Link
+ 1
17. to 16.

Pit
+ 1
18. to 17.

Donkey Kong
- 4
14. to 18.

Peach
=
19. to 19.

Luigi
+ 1
21. to 20.

Fox
+ 3
24. to 21.

Wolf
- 2
20. to 22.

Sonic
+ 8
31. to 23.

Sheik
+ 1
25. to 24.

Bowser
- 2
23. to 25.

Zelda
- 4
22. to 26.

Pokémon Trainer
+ 5
32. to 27.

Ike
- 2
26. to 28.

Lucas
- 1
28. to 29.

Mario
- 3
27. to 30.

Ness
- 3
28. to 31.

Yoshi
+ 1
33. to 32.

Samus
- 3
30. to 33.

Jigglypuff
+ 1
35. to 34.

Captain Falcon
+ 2
37. to 35.

Link
- 2
34. to 36.

Ganondorf
- 1
36. to 37.


Older Tier Lists
v1.0 (September 1, 2008) (http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=192028)
v2.0 (January 1, 2009) (http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=214428)

Question: Who's Sadaharu Inui?

Ahhh! Pit should be S Tier! :P
but yeah, who is the last name on this list?

.....it's 3:03..................... I need sleep.
X_x;;

Wario rapes.

Anyway, I like this tier much more than the last two.
Seems more accurate to me.

Although, Lucario took a big hit for some reason.
Not that I use him, but I assumed he was decent. D:

Quote from: wiiboychris on June 05, 2009, 12:41:16 AM
Question: Who's Sadaharu Inui?

I saw this post coming from a mile away.

It's just a joke. He's a guy in the smash community that everyone makes fun of. Don't worry about it.

Haha I think I was the first person to reply on the SWF post asking who it was XD

YOSHI WENT UP WOOT

Bottom of A Tier and...
D Tier :'(

Zelda needs more love

...Link is F Tier...

Pikachu A rank?

And Link's still Bottom Tier?
Somethings not right. Hmmm.

I do agree though, this sounds more accurate than the previous versions.

Great to see the old A ranks bumped to S rank.

And whoooaa, Sonic went up a lot.

Link is really easy to gimp if you have a strong recovery.
Someone like Wario can jump down and gimp you with an aerial and recover no sweat.

Pikachu has amazing smashes.

It has nothing to do with Pikachu's smashes. It's all the new buffer CG's he has.

Quote from: Cogs on June 08, 2009, 06:13:51 PM
It has nothing to do with Pikachu's smashes. It's all the new buffer CG's he has.

Buffer CG's suck ass.
I can't do them consistently. :(

What about Sonic though?
He used to be real low.
But now he's mid.

Quote from: SSBBRAWLIN on June 08, 2009, 06:26:44 PM
What about Sonic though?
He used to be real low.
But now he's mid.

Not entirely sure.
Don't think he can buffer CG, but if he can that drastically raises his placement.

Sonic was never really bad... just average.
After a year, people really learn how to use him.

LOL.
I always considered Sonic decent.
I'm just not certain how he sky rocketed up there so fast.

Also I think Ganondorf is deserving of at least D Rank.

Yeah. And link has bombs for a reason.

Quote from: SSBBRAWLIN on June 08, 2009, 08:38:01 PM
LOL.
I always considered Sonic decent.
I'm just not certain how he sky rocketed up there so fast.

Also I think Ganondorf is deserving of at least D Rank.

How did he sky rocket? Well because people figured out how to use spindashing as basic movement instead of running, especially against characters with slower long range attacks. But Sonic's always been pretty meh. No power and quite slow on certain attacks (the irony).

Frankly I'm surprised Mario dropped pretty low again. lol Link and Ganondorf are the bottom two. Zelda series gets no love XD

Huh, two of my mains rose, one dropped, and the other stayed the same, but thank god, they're all considered A Rank and above. ;D

Why is Samus so low on the list?

At least Kirby is A Tier now. =3

Quote from: SkyMyl on June 12, 2009, 04:04:32 PM
Why is Samus so low on the list?

At least Kirby is A Tier now. =3

Amen. ;D
...But he still hasn't moved position since last tier list...

I'm half decent with Samus and she's low for a few reasons...

You miss her grab, you get destroyed.
Missiles suck, even when canceled and spammed.
B-air is nearly useless, its powerful but hard to land.
Floaty.

Her best trait is the Z-air really. :P

I need to start doing that more with my Link.

Quote from: Nayrman on June 11, 2009, 10:12:57 AM
How did he sky rocket? Well because people figured out how to use spindashing as basic movement instead of running, especially against characters with slower long range attacks. But Sonic's always been pretty meh. No power and quite slow on certain attacks (the irony).

Frankly I'm surprised Mario dropped pretty low again. lol Link and Ganondorf are the bottom two. Zelda series gets no love XD

Yeah, I've noticed that.

F-smash
B-air
F-tilt
Those are the only slow ones that come to mind.

His running grab is also a huge downfall, because it's too dang fast.
Whenever I try nailing that on other players I tend to run past them in the process causing me to miss almost always.

I like the fact that he's super fast and all, but when it comes to mixing it in with his attacks it's just too much.

Quote from: SSBBRAWLIN on June 14, 2009, 09:15:00 PM
Yeah, I've noticed that.

F-smash
B-air
F-tilt
Those are the only slow ones that come to mind.

His running grab is also a huge downfall, because it's too dang fast.
Whenever I try nailing that on other players I tend to run past them in the process causing me to miss almost always.

I like the fact that he's super fast and all, but when it comes to mixing it in with his attacks it's just too much.

The weird thing is that all these problems are balanced out by other problems. He run grab is too fast but the running speed makes his dash attack quite spammable which makes him somewhat predictable X_X;;

Quote from: Nayrman on June 15, 2009, 02:18:54 PM
The weird thing is that all these problems are balanced out by other problems. He run grab is too fast but the running speed makes his dash attack quite spammable which makes him somewhat predictable X_X;;

Yeah, I've experienced that with Playat before.
I've also heard that his Homing Attack can be used as a good recovery

Quote from: SSBBRAWLIN on June 15, 2009, 06:28:28 PM
Yeah, I've experienced that with Playat before.
I've also heard that his Homing Attack can be used as a good recovery

assuming your opponent is an idiot or trying to edgeguard you and sucking at it X_X;;

Quote from: Nayrman on June 15, 2009, 06:29:10 PM
assuming your opponent is an idiot or trying to edgeguard you and sucking at it X_X;;

LOL.

The players in random brawl.

Quote from: SSBBRAWLIN on June 15, 2009, 06:33:31 PM
LOL.

The players in random brawl.

pretty much.

Pokemon Trainer is D tier, well at least he's moving up.

Whoo, Captain Falcon isn't the worst anymore xD

Wario for God Tier.
Woo.

Olimar needs more love. D:

Quote from: SSBBRAWLIN on July 09, 2009, 10:17:54 PM
Olimar needs more love. D:

He would if he wasn't the most easy to gimp character in the game.

Quote from: HTA on July 10, 2009, 11:06:17 PM
He would if he wasn't the most easy to gimp character in the game.

I guess that's the only reason he's not S-Tier then. :(

Why PT so low?  :(

Mario can do better than that. He's not the best character out there, but I could easily seem him getting out of E tier.

I remember i went to a tourney in april a month after brawl came out. I played Wario as my main and everybody was like "who plays wario?" Now look where he is..

Quote from: SmashBro25 on July 16, 2009, 09:49:55 AM
Why PT so low?  :(

While Charizard is like Bowser 2.0, Ivysaur is pretty pathetic.
Squirtle is decent, but too light.

Plus, in a real match, PT can be camped easily.
Just sit back and make a stock last 3 minutes, by then whatever Poke they are using is fatigued and doing significantly less damage. If he didn't have that fatigue thing, he would be slightly higher.

Quote from: HTA on July 18, 2009, 04:21:03 PM
While Charizard is like Bowser 2.0, Ivysaur is pretty pathetic.
Squirtle is decent, but too light.

Plus, in a real match, PT can be camped easily.
Just sit back and make a stock last 3 minutes, by then whatever Poke they are using is fatigued and doing significantly less damage. If he didn't have that fatigue thing, he would be slightly higher.

But that fatigue thing is why you're supposed to change pokemon.  I mean, battling with three transformations is the whole point of using PT, isn't it?

Quote from: SmashBro25 on July 18, 2009, 05:56:28 PM
But that fatigue thing is why you're supposed to change pokemon.  I mean, battling with three transformations is the whole point of using PT, isn't it?

"Good job Charizard!" *changes to Squirtle*
Falcon: "Sweet, an opening!" *charges Falcon Punch or Smash attack, etc. next to spawn point*
"Go get 'em Squirt-" *Squirtle gets killed since he spawns with no invincibility frames*
"This game's winner is... Captain Falcon!"

Point taken.

What about Link?  I mean, yeah, he's taken a nose dive from the last game, but is he really bottom tier material?

Quote from: SmashBro25 on July 18, 2009, 06:06:49 PM
Point taken.

What about Link?  I mean, yeah, he's taken a nose dive from the last game, but is he really bottom tier material?

His recovery isn't something to be proud about. That alone is a reason not to play as him for me. Doesn't PT have a way of switching Pokemon with significantly less lag?

Quote from: Cornwad on July 18, 2009, 06:21:49 PM
His recovery isn't something to be proud about. That alone is a reason not to play as him for me. Doesn't PT have a way of switching Pokemon with significantly less lag?

My experience with PT is limited to Squirtle.
I don't see how you can really reduce the lag of that move in particular, I know you can sometimes powershield a move if you are fast enough.

Not sure how fast PT falls during the move, but you could pull a mid-air shift like Zelda in theory.

Best way to play PT is fast, Squirtle and Charizard both benefit from fast playing. But once you have reached that point where your attacks can't KO, you are in a sense helpless.

Quote from: HTA on July 18, 2009, 07:44:46 PM
My experience with PT is limited to Squirtle.
I don't see how you can really reduce the lag of that move in particular, I know you can sometimes powershield a move if you are fast enough.

Not sure how fast PT falls during the move, but you could pull a mid-air shift like Zelda in theory.

Best way to play PT is fast, Squirtle and Charizard both benefit from fast playing. But once you have reached that point where your attacks can't KO, you are in a sense helpless.

Especially Squirtle since his recovery is so darn straightforward. At least Charizard has recovery that has multiple uses.

I don't see how PT, Ike, and Link are worse than Bowser.  Of course, I don't really play competitive.  Can someone explain?

Bowser has grab release shenanigans

And the Fortress.

Quote from: Nayrman on July 18, 2009, 06:02:32 PM
"Good job Charizard!" *changes to Squirtle*
Falcon: "Sweet, an opening!" *charges Falcon Punch or Smash attack, etc. next to spawn point*
"Go get 'em Squirt-" *Squirtle gets killed since he spawns with no invincibility frames*
"This game's winner is... Captain Falcon!"

One of the many reasons you're supposed to KO/knock your opponent off stage before attempting to switch.

Quote from: SSBBRAWLIN on July 21, 2009, 05:57:31 PM
One of the many reasons you're supposed to KO/knock your opponent off stage before attempting to switch.

The point is, if you don't do that fast enough, you lose the power to do so.

Its faster to just suicide really.

Quote from: HTA on July 22, 2009, 08:32:25 AM
The point is, if you don't do that fast enough, you lose the power to do so.

Its faster to just suicide really.

Yeah.

But I have to agree though, that it wasn't a smart move for Sakurai to ignore the invicibilty frame.

Quote from: HTA on July 18, 2009, 07:44:46 PM
My experience with PT is limited to Squirtle.
I don't see how you can really reduce the lag of that move in particular, I know you can sometimes powershield a move if you are fast enough.

Not sure how fast PT falls during the move, but you could pull a mid-air shift like Zelda in theory.

Best way to play PT is fast, Squirtle and Charizard both benefit from fast playing. But once you have reached that point where your attacks can't KO, you are in a sense helpless.

You can't change Pokemon in Mid-air, you have to be grounded.

K.
So PT deserves his spot then.

Quote from: HTA! on August 09, 2009, 12:45:39 PM
K.
So PT deserves his spot then.

yes

Quote from: Nixon on February 20, 2010, 11:06:00 PM
yes

Well, that reply only took 7 months.

There is a new tier list, in case anyone still cares. SmashBoards has it up.

Lucas is E teir? Really?

But he's so awesome!

Kibry needs to pull himself out of the gutter.

When's this list gonna be updated? There's been a new one since, what, February, and we still have the old one here.

Quote from: Barbaloot on May 03, 2010, 03:10:54 PM
Lucas is E teir? Really?

But he's so awesome!

He's actually pretty bad, lol. His priority isn't all that great, his grabs are slow, etc. among other things that lead to his placement on the tier list.

On the most recent tier list, he's F tier.

As a Lucas main the main thing with him that leads him down is that people who play against good ones already know most of the main KO options, thus leaving ones that are either hard as hell to pull off or needing high damage

In a majority of cases it's both combined to at least a medium extent.

Quote from: Smugleaf on May 15, 2010, 10:54:01 AM
As a Lucas main the main thing with him that leads him down is that people who play against good ones already know most of the main KO options, thus leaving ones that are either hard as hell to pull off or needing high damage

In a majority of cases it's both combined to at least a medium extent.

...uh...what?

His grab release animation is SO long that he can get chain released by just about anyone, and he suffers from release infinites from Marth in particular. Two of his special moves leave him vulnerable and both of these moves are easily avoided. He doesn't have much power or speed either except for his grabs which are actually quite excellent. Hell this isn't even the tip of the Lucas iceburg, but you get the drift: He deserves his spot on the F Tier. He's at the top of the F tier at least.

Let me rephrase that:

His KOing options are pretty much down right terrible. If you play against someone who's played good Lucas users often, it gets even worse. His KOing options leave you down to HEAVILY playing "The waiting game" Where you have to stall and get the opponent on high damage OR you have to take risks. These risks involve a lot of stuff, and more of the time than less, ends up leading to something that screws you over more. That and he has such few options in the first place even if they were stronger.

The rest of him, well really, there isn't much even that average about him. He can be good in some match-ups when used right but that's about it. He's not worth anything in the tourney scene outside of those "Lower tier" tournaments. I haven't watched those for myself so I wouldn't even know how he competes in those.

He does alright, but most characters in the C and D tiers completely destroy him. Fox in particular can reflect all of his offensive B moves, and again: Grab releasing.