I love how this a major event that I'm actually hearing about AS IT HAPPENED, instead of the next day like I usually do. Fuck yeah, finally took him down.
The greatest man in the world has died.
:(
Finally.
And now Afghanistan will be a happy paradise of rainbows and glitter and love.
I demand footage of the killing.
Quote from: Friendly Hostile on May 01, 2011, 08:47:06 PM
And now Afghanistan will be a happy paradise of rainbows and glitter and love.
NSFCD-Con should be there. It fits.
My uncle just now told me about it.
I was eating dinner at this sports bar place where they have those big screen tvs and the news was saying "Osama bin Laden Dead" (no sound, just subtitles so I didn't really know what happened), then as I was walking out my mom texted me and was like: "did you hear? we killed osama, 'bout time we got that mother intercourse er".
Sooo... Yea.. That's cool, I guess.
It's been so long.
Um...yay? Does this mean we can end all these stupid and mostly pointless wars in the middle east? No? Well then la-de-da. It only took ten years for the military to do it's job then.
Yep.
Yeah it's pretty much the best day ever. I just saw my twitter feed explode with Osama news and then I put on CNN. I'm a little annoyed that today isn't a national holiday though. The way they killed him sounds like the perfect setup for a CoD level. Small spec forces team invades a compound, engages in a firefight, uses a woman as a human shield, and ends up killing Osama with a headshot? I want to play that in MW3.
W00T! Go America! And apparently Pakistan? He's finally dead!
I don't see why America is rejoicing and whatnot. Terrorism isn't gone, and there will just be another crooked bastard to take Osama's place.
Quote from: Super on May 02, 2011, 06:25:53 AM
I don't see why America is rejoicing and whatnot. Terrorism isn't gone, and there will just be another crooked bastard to take Osama's place.
This the guy who caused big turmoils ten years ago, of course is a motive to celebrate. And knowing the army, they'll hunt the next evil guy down for sure.
Quote from: Super on May 02, 2011, 06:25:53 AM
I don't see why America is rejoicing and whatnot. Terrorism isn't gone, and there will just be another crooked bastard to take Osama's place.
It's nice to celebrate because we know we're making progress. Slow progress. But progress.
But you are correct. The Middle East has always been like this. With and Without Osama. Just because one man is dead, it doesn't mean everything is hunky dorey. It might not ever be.
Quote from: Super on May 02, 2011, 06:25:53 AM
Terrorism isn't gone, and there will just be another crooked bastard to take Osama's place.
Very true.
America intercourse yeah? Because the US spent so much time in Afghanistan -- the only time they were there was to drop bombs on Allied forces.
Quote from: Super on May 02, 2011, 06:25:53 AM
I don't see why America is rejoicing and whatnot. Terrorism isn't gone, and there will just be another crooked bastard to take Osama's place.
Like I've said...it shows that those bastards can't hide forever...
Yeah, someone else will take his place, but it shows we will get them.
And That's how the USA outdoes a Royal Wedding.
Quote from: Neerb on May 02, 2011, 05:28:39 AM
W00T! Go America! And apparently Pakistan? He's finally dead!
Uh... no. Not Pakistan. They were the ones hiding him in the first place.
QuoteI don't see why America is rejoicing and whatnot. Terrorism isn't gone, and there will just be another crooked bastard to take Osama's place.
That's a pretty narrow minded way of looking at it. His death is more symbolic than anything else. It essentially establishes that al Qaeda no longer poses any threat to the US security, and gives closure to the 9/11 attacks. Even though they haven't exactly been much of a problem
since 9/11 as far as homeland security was concerned, the fact that their leader was able to evade our government for so long wasn't exactly a comforting thought. Now that he is fallen, the moral of those who followed him is shattered, and that form of terrorism may die down in time. Osama being able to survive was a major reason for them to feel hope for their cause. Now he's dead, so there goes that. Couple that with the fact that another incident like 9/11 isn't going to happen any time soon, and al Qaeda is no longer a major enemy in any sense of the word like say, Iran or North Korea. Not many people are celebrating because terrorism is gone, that doesn't make any sense. That's like saying people only celebrated when Hitler died because it meant that dictators will be gone forever.
Quote from: Cornwad on May 02, 2011, 03:33:36 PM
Uh... no. Not Pakistan. They were the ones hiding him in the first place.
I thought I saw something about Pakistan helping, like they supplied some information and a place to launch the helicopters from... or did America just do that without Pakistan knowing?
And now we have to deal with the ignorant nationalism for a while.
Quote from: Cornwad on May 02, 2011, 03:33:36 PM
Uh... no. Not Pakistan. They were the ones hiding him in the first place.
That's a pretty narrow minded way of looking at it. His death is more symbolic than anything else. It essentially establishes that al Qaeda no longer poses any threat to the US security, and gives closure to the 9/11 attacks. Even though they haven't exactly been much of a problem since 9/11 as far as homeland security was concerned, the fact that their leader was able to evade our government for so long wasn't exactly a comforting thought. Now that he is fallen, the moral of those who followed him is shattered, and that form of terrorism may die down in time. Osama being able to survive was a major reason for them to feel hope for their cause. Now he's dead, so there goes that. Couple that with the fact that another incident like 9/11 isn't going to happen any time soon, and al Qaeda is no longer a major enemy in any sense of the word like say, Iran or North Korea. Not many people are celebrating because terrorism is gone, that doesn't make any sense. That's like saying people only celebrated when Hitler died because it meant that dictators will be gone forever.
Yet the war continues.
Watch there be a Saw moment and the dead body isn't really Osama.
Quote from: Cornwad on May 02, 2011, 03:33:36 PM
Uh... no. Not Pakistan. They were the ones hiding him in the first place.
That's a pretty narrow minded way of looking at it. His death is more symbolic than anything else. It essentially establishes that al Qaeda no longer poses any threat to the US security, and gives closure to the 9/11 attacks. Even though they haven't exactly been much of a problem since 9/11 as far as homeland security was concerned, the fact that their leader was able to evade our government for so long wasn't exactly a comforting thought. Now that he is fallen, the moral of those who followed him is shattered, and that form of terrorism may die down in time. Osama being able to survive was a major reason for them to feel hope for their cause. Now he's dead, so there goes that. Couple that with the fact that another incident like 9/11 isn't going to happen any time soon, and al Qaeda is no longer a major enemy in any sense of the word like say, Iran or North Korea. Not many people are celebrating because terrorism is gone, that doesn't make any sense. That's like saying people only celebrated when Hitler died because it meant that dictators will be gone forever.
What exactly is it showing the terrorists? That 10 years later the US
might kill you after you've killed thousands.
I'm shaking in my boots.
Quote from: Neerb on May 02, 2011, 03:42:12 PM
I thought I saw something about Pakistan helping, like they supplied some information and a place to launch the helicopters from... or did America just do that without Pakistan knowing?
Pakistan had little to no knowledge.
Quote from: Super on May 02, 2011, 04:08:17 PM
Yet the war continues.
Do you want it to immediately end the second he gets shot?
Quote from: Macawmoses on May 02, 2011, 04:45:15 PM
What exactly is it showing the terrorists? That 10 years later the US might kill you after you've killed thousands.
It's better than showing them that they can get away with it. And they won't kill thousands any more. Once you kill the head, the rest eventually crumbles. They no longer have a seemingly invincible figure to rally behind and idolize. He's dead.
Quote from: Cornwad on May 02, 2011, 04:56:49 PM
Pakistan had little to no knowledge.
Do you want it to immediately end the second he gets shot?
It's better than showing them that they can get away with it. And they won't kill thousands any more. Once you kill the head, the rest eventually crumbles. They no longer have a seemingly invincible figure to rally behind and idolize. He's dead.
Also, we managed to pick up some sensitive intel on them, as well.
I am not the one to be an ignorant nationalist, but there are some reasons to rejoice beyond the fact the intercourse er is dead.
Quote from: Alisaihin on May 02, 2011, 12:26:10 PM
Yeah, someone else will take his place, but it shows we will get them.
Sure. It only takes two wars, nine hundred thousand lives and over one trillion dollars to "get" them.
I'm going to have to agree with Super, etc.
Just because Osama is gone doesn't mean we can rest easy. Al Qaeda is still there; terrorism is still likely. I don't know if you think they can't just elect a new leader, but that isn't true. No matter what, terrorism is still a problem. While the murder of Osama definitely brings a lot of closure we've been looking for for most of 10 years, it doesn't mean everything is fine and peachy.
I'm a little worried Al Qaeda might try to pull revenge attacks on us, to be honest. War isn't over yet, and no matter how many people we kill, there will still be more people remaining who want to attack America. It doesn't go away.
Quote from: Kayo on May 02, 2011, 06:08:49 PM
I'm a little worried Al Qaeda might try to pull revenge attacks on us, to be honest. War isn't over yet, and no matter how many people we kill, there will still be more people remaining who want to attack America. It doesn't go away.
You shouldn't be worried. US homeland security was totally slacking back in 2000, and 9/11 was a wake up call. Al Qaeda is pretty much a chicken running around with its head cut off at this point, there's nothing really to be worried about. I'm not saying that the government shouldn't still be on its toes, and that there won't be any attempts at terrorism again, but you as a citizen have nothing to worry about from Al Qaeda as long as you're smart. There's not going to be another 9/11 from these guys.
You know who you should be worried about? Iran. And North Korea... and China.
Quote from: Cornwad on May 02, 2011, 06:46:12 PM
You shouldn't be worried. US homeland security was totally slacking back in 2000, and 9/11 was a wake up call. Al Qaeda is pretty much a chicken running around with its head cut off at this point, there's nothing really to be worried about. I'm not saying that the government shouldn't still be on its toes, and that there won't be any attempts at terrorism again, but you as a citizen have nothing to worry about from Al Qaeda as long as you're smart. There's not going to be another 9/11 from these guys.
You know who you should be worried about? Iran. And North Korea... and China.
Let me rephrase: I'm not worried that we'll be HIT, since I have faith in our forces, but I AM worried that they will TRY to attack us. Even if it's unsuccessful, no one likes having their home country under attack.
Quote from: Kayo on May 02, 2011, 06:49:49 PM
Let me rephrase: I'm not worried that we'll be HIT, since I have faith in our forces, but I AM worried that they will TRY to attack us. Even if it's unsuccessful, no one likes having their home country under attack.
If they do, I bet we won't even hear about it. It'll be stopped before anything actually happens. The real issue is what the world is going to do with Pakistan...
Quote from: Cornwad on May 02, 2011, 06:52:07 PM
If they do, I bet we won't even hear about it. It'll be stopped before anything actually happens. The real issue is what the world is going to do with Pakistan...
I don't even know about Pakistan anymore.
Hey
The war on terror isn't over. Our national security isn't going to see a huge relaxation because of it.
Nor were the wars we have fought in the Middle East specifically for the capture/death of Bin Laden. To say that they were is ignorant. Osama's not the only terrorist, and al-Qaeda isn't the only terrorist organization.
The death of Bin Laden is the fulfillment of the promise of a nation united in tragedy. Did it take a decade for us to find him? Yes. Will it end terror worldwide? No.
But I'm still proud. Because we didn't give up on that promise when it took longer than we thought. We didn't give up when it got hard, and he all but disappeared. We didn't stop when a Republican left office and a Democrat took over with a very different outlook on foreign policy and national security. We found the man who took credit for the death of so many. I wish we had been able to take him alive, but I'm proud of the fact that instead of parading his body through the streets we honored the beliefs of Islam and made sure he received a burial within 24 hours of his death, a courtesy no terrorist would extend to someone of another religion.
We made a promise while we were still burying our own. We could have said it was just in the heat of the moment, we could have turned away when we didn't get instant results, we could have backtracked when our lack of results began to look like a joke to so many others. But we didn't. We hunted that man to the ends of this Earth to fulfill a promise we made to the families of the men and women who died; the promise we made to honor their memory.
At the end of the day, we are relentless in our pursuits.
So, yes, once again, I am proud to be an American. I do not celebrate this man's death, but the fulfillment of that promise that his actions would not go unpunished.
While the wars fought were not done so in direct pursuit of him, those wars also wouldn't have happened without him either. They were both sold on post 9/11 anger and emotion, with piss poor planning being done before hand, landing us in one of the worst foreign policy quagmires in our history. Taking down Bin Laden, Al-Queda and the Taliban could have all been done in a far better fashion, with much less civilian bloodshed, and far fewer solider causalities. We will never win this war. You cannot eradicate terrorism.
And in the past couple of years, the American public hasn't given a flying intercourse about Bin Laden. I see no reason to be proud over the ultimately hollow victory. The resulting costs to get us to this point are so unequivocal, I can't see how you can proudly say it was worth it.
Is it good that we were able to provide closure and achieve a symbolic victory for those three thousand lost a decade a go? Yes. But I cannot be proud of nation, who is willing to engage in such a bloody and cruel path to achieve this victory, who has so willing turned her back on so many of her own principles and ideology, all in response to his actions.
This thread has become pretty LOL.
I can be proud of some things and not of others. It's the benefit of complexity. My feelings on the wars themselves and our sacrifice of civil liberties in pursuit of a security we will never gain are separate from the hunt for this man.
You know as well as I do that our actions in the middle east are not points on a line ending with this mans capture. It is a web of failures and victories all fueled by a spectrum of motivations. I disagree that those wars would not have happened without him. While the administration took advantage of our anger and fear to launch them early, these wars were part of a long reaching arc that stretches farther back then 9/11.
To say that the costs for hunting this man alone are unequivocal is to say that every action we have taken has been in his pursuit. Or perhaps not. Perhaps you believe that the loss of even one American life in action against a terrorist organization is too much. That is certainly a valid opinion, just not one I share.
I don't agree with the idea that America had stopped caring about Bin Laden, and I'm not just referring to banjo-picking moonshiners who still wave the confederate flag. Many of us still believed this man should be brought to justice. Did we get frustrated? Yes. Did we feel embarrasment at the time it was taking to capture him? I'm sure.
The War on Terror will end about the same time The War on Drugs will end, when the America we know ceases to exist. But I can still be proud that we brought this man to justice, that we promised ourselves and the world that we would do this, and we did.
Well heres the deal, yeah Osama was killed by a special ops team, yeah yeah, everyone is celebrating an whatnot, but theres still terrorism out there. Reason why a lot of people are happy hes gone is because of 9/11 nearly 10 years ago. But heres the deal, there are many others that are following his footsteps, and not just his footstep, but terrorism in general. I'd say they better not light it until the fat lady sings because there is still a lot of work to be done against terrorism.
I wouldnt be surprised it isnt people around the world that are terrorist, heck there are "Sleepers" right now in our country if you ever heard of that before. Terrorism can pop up out of nowhere sometimes when we dont see it, just its how people handle, terrorism is the act of trying to strike fear and terror into the minds of people, groups, countries, etc that they oppose, it is an act to bring down in fear.
You pretty much cannot fail harder than this guy did.
Yesterday morning the local news anchor almost did something like that. He realized he said Obama and restarted the sentence, though.
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a100/Hunter35/1304401676902.jpg)
My responses will be in bold.
Quote from: Friendly Hostile on May 02, 2011, 08:40:21 PM
While the wars fought were not done so in direct pursuit of him, those wars also wouldn't have happened without him either. They were both sold on post 9/11 anger and emotion, with piss poor (I wouldn't say piss poor...it was the actions of our want to pull out, weakening our forces, combined with being forced to utilize the so-called "Rules of Engagement". Sometimes I feel that those rules got in the way of things.) planning being done before hand, landing us in one of the worst foreign policy quagmires in our history. Taking down Bin Laden, Al-Queda and the Taliban could have all been done in a far better fashion, with much less civilian bloodshed, and far fewer solider causalities. We will never win this war. You cannot eradicate terrorism.
And in the past couple of years, the American public hasn't given a flying intercourse about Bin Laden. I see no reason to be proud over the ultimately hollow victory. The resulting costs to get us to this point are so unequivocal, I can't see how you can proudly say it was worth it. (As has been said...maybe it's because we didn't want to dwell on it and have it blind us...or we just forgot about Bin Laden until now.)
Is it good that we were able to provide closure and achieve a symbolic victory for those three thousand lost a decade a go? Yes. But I cannot be proud of nation, who is willing to engage in such a bloody and cruel path to achieve this victory, who has so willing turned her back on so many of her own principles and ideology, all in response to his actions. (Our nation, like many, has been created from past bloodshed. Another reason we did this is to help slow them down at the very least, show we won't sit idle as they destroy what we know around us. Is it right? Not in theory, yet these are also people we cannot negotiate with. Sometimes, when diplomacy fails, a swift kick in the ass has to be done...)
Quote from: Roc on May 03, 2011, 09:13:37 AM
Well heres the deal, yeah Osama was killed by a special ops team, yeah yeah, everyone is celebrating an whatnot, but theres still terrorism out there. Reason why a lot of people are happy hes gone is because of 9/11 nearly 10 years ago. But heres the deal, there are many others that are following his footsteps, and not just his footstep, but terrorism in general. I'd say they better not light it until the fat lady sings because there is still a lot of work to be done against terrorism.
I wouldnt be surprised it isnt people around the world that are terrorist, heck there are "Sleepers" right now in our country if you ever heard of that before. Terrorism can pop up out of nowhere sometimes when we dont see it, just its how people handle, terrorism is the act of trying to strike fear and terror into the minds of people, groups, countries, etc that they oppose, it is an act to bring down in fear.
And this is why I'm against heavy gun regulation. Forcing background checks I am definitely for, however. Banning guns outright? Might as well hand the criminals guns and let yourself get shot.
Quote from: BOREDFANBOY on May 03, 2011, 04:38:07 AM
I can be proud of some things and not of others. It's the benefit of complexity. My feelings on the wars themselves and our sacrifice of civil liberties in pursuit of a security we will never gain are separate from the hunt for this man.
You know as well as I do that our actions in the middle east are not points on a line ending with this mans capture. It is a web of failures and victories all fueled by a spectrum of motivations. I disagree that those wars would not have happened without him. While the administration took advantage of our anger and fear to launch them early, these wars were part of a long reaching arc that stretches farther back then 9/11. (Yes, this is definitely so. Like, for instance, the Iraq "war" (not technically a WAR because it wasn't declared by Congress, but w/e) wasn't the first time we've hit that region. Operation Desert Storm, anyone?)
To say that the costs for hunting this man alone are unequivocal is to say that every action we have taken has been in his pursuit. Or perhaps not. Perhaps you believe that the loss of even one American life in action against a terrorist organization is too much. That is certainly a valid opinion, just not one I share. (Yes, a valid opinion, because I can't change it. I agree that we take the deaths during conflict too harshly. As awful as it sounds, the Iraq war's losses were nothing compared to WWI or WWII. Or Vietnam. Yes, each loss hurts someone in some way or another, but losses are the reality of armed conflict, no matter how seemingly insignificant a conflict is or how well planned it is. We got lucky during the raid.)
I don't agree with the idea that America had stopped caring about Bin Laden, and I'm not just referring to banjo-picking moonshiners who still wave the confederate flag. Many of us still believed this man should be brought to justice. Did we get frustrated? Yes. Did we feel embarrasment at the time it was taking to capture him? I'm sure.
The War on Terror will end about the same time The War on Drugs will end, when the America we know ceases to exist. But I can still be proud that we brought this man to justice, that we promised ourselves and the world that we would do this, and we did.
Okay, I feel finished here. I'm ready for lambasting.
Quote from: Alisaihin on May 03, 2011, 12:39:59 PM
And this is why I'm against heavy gun regulation. Forcing background checks I am definitely for, however. Banning guns outright? Might as well hand the criminals guns and let yourself get shot.Okay, I feel finished here. I'm ready for lambasting.
Thats a good point, but it still doesnt stop them, most terrorists can make a car bomb, release anthrax, etc. Also, what i meant by sleepers is there are people IN the United States that are linked to terrorist organization, just we dont know who they are, im not talking about the ones we already know about that a present in the US, im talking about people that could be linked to Al Queda, or other terrorist organizations that are opposing the US, but some could be living right under our belt, and it doesnt matter what Nationality/Religion they are, heck some could be American and cause terrorism here in the country. Just saying, its a big problem, its not easy to stop, all what we can do right now is slow them down like what Bored said.
Also, What if Osama planned it so that it would take this long to find him? 10 years that is. Because just...something is sort of out of the picture here. Dont you think?
Cornwad, you're an idiot.
Just felt like tossing that out there.
Dude, this war could go on as long as the Sunis and the Shiites have been fighting. By war i mean the war against terrorism.
Quote from: Cornwad on May 02, 2011, 06:46:12 PM
You know who you should be worried about? Iran. And North Korea... and China.
Why would we be worried about any of them? We would pummel them all. Plus, I'm pretty sure we're on good terms with China.
Quote from: Doodle on May 05, 2011, 12:35:16 PM
Why would we be worried about any of them? We would pummel them all. Plus, I'm pretty sure we're on good terms with China.
Iran and N. Korea don't stand a chance against us at all. And as long as we keep buying the stuff China makes, they'll be fine with us.
Quote from: Kayo on May 05, 2011, 01:07:06 PM
Iran and N. Korea don't stand a chance against us at all. And as long as we keep buying the stuff China makes, they'll be fine with us.
This, right here. And besides, we have to stay on good terms with China. In either direction, we could intercourse one another over economically in the first place lol (both in the financial aspect and producing/consuming aspects). This practically ensures that we are allies, despite differences.
As for Iran and N.Korea, yeah, they'd just get flattened by us. Our only worry would be Syria's retaliation.
Quote from: Alisaihin on May 05, 2011, 02:41:07 PM
This, right here. And besides, we have to stay on good terms with China. In either direction, we could intercourse one another over economically in the first place lol (both in the financial aspect and producing/consuming aspects). This practically ensures that we are allies, despite differences.
As for Iran and N.Korea, yeah, they'd just get flattened by us. Our only worry would be Syria's retaliation.
The way it is between the USA and China is, well.. China and us both know that if something happens between us, both our countries go down. We won't have any stuff to sell to citizens, and China will go broke without us buying what they make. That's also why China keeps making us stuff... as long as we're paying them for it, it keeps their country going.
As a fun aside: China owns a good chunk of the U.S. debt. You actually sold your debt. Which is hilarious.
Quote from: Macawmoses on May 05, 2011, 05:04:14 PM
As a fun aside: China owns a good chunk of the U.S. debt. You actually sold your debt. Which is hilarious.
Yeah, we ain't none too bright.
Quote from: Macawmoses on May 05, 2011, 05:04:14 PM
As a fun aside: China owns a good chunk of the U.S. debt. You actually sold your debt. Which is hilarious.
Is it? Or is it something that happens every day, from both governments and corporations, because that's what a Bond is. It's a debt sold to an outside party. Learn2financialsecurities.
Quote from: BOREDFANBOY on May 05, 2011, 06:34:20 PM
Is it? Or is it something that happens every day, from both governments and corporations, because that's what a Bond is. It's a debt sold to an outside party. Learn2financialsecurities.
YOU TELL THAT CANUCK. YEAH.
You guys are a silly bunch of trolls.
Yes he's dead.
And our troops are still fighting, we still have spent billions on keeping our troops overseas, and are still plummeting in debt.
Go America?
Quote from: Mutilator7 on May 08, 2011, 07:32:40 PM
Yes he's dead.
And our troops are still fighting, we still have spent billions on keeping our troops overseas, and are still plummeting in debt.
Go America?
Our troops fighting was never about killing him.
Quote from: Doodle on May 09, 2011, 12:58:53 PM
Our troops fighting was never about killing him.
This, and I was actually surprised when I heard the news, considering Bin Laden wasn't exactly top priority at the time. I mean yeah, all the things he's wanted for.. but with all the other poop going on now it just seemed like a weird time to do it.
But hey, it worked.