Analyze This! (Version II)

guido123 · July 12, 2008, 04:55:27 PM

Quote from: Chloroform? on July 01, 2008, 12:34:09 PM
I used Mario's down B once to push a Lucas out of the way of his PK Thunder, causing him to fall helplessly to his death. It's a very situational move, but is very useful.

it is helpfull but as they already said it is hard to master

HTA! · July 12, 2008, 06:46:20 PM

Link

Pro-
Decently strong attacks for their speed
Bombs are powerful
Arrows are spammable
Standing Shield
D-air is a good killer, but the trained smasher is hard to hit
Long Grab Range
Tether Recovery
Sword

Cons-
Slow
Boomerang was horribly mangled
Recovery is a bit lacking
Bombs have small range
A lot of star up time for some attacks
Grab Lag
Easy to combo due to size and weight
Even with projectiles, easy to projectile spam on
Whirlwind 'Rang can cause more problems than solve

Overall, he was nerfed some... in my eyes
TL is eons better.

Ugawa · July 13, 2008, 06:59:37 AM

I do agree with the 'ol Axe on the TL Link scenario, but I'm always up to being proven wrong.

Okay, so next on the list is Samus....I think I've used this character twice. Maybe three times at most. I say zero suit is where it's at, but that's just me. So this time, we'll analyze both samus and zero suit. Okay:

Samus's projectiles are decent and you can kill with the big oversized shot...also the missiles are spammable, which is actually pretty annoying (maybe not as much as pikachu's, but still annoying). Her recovery has little range and I have not seen a useful way to use her bombs...but like I said I don't use her pretty much at all. Some of her smashes/aerials that include the fire thing can't really kill, but can do some damage...her tilt down attack pretty good though. Also, I'm not sure if she can still do the homing grab like she could in melee...

Zerosuit is very easy to combo with as long as you keep the opponent paralyzed, which isn't all that hard bcause she's so quick. She's also got a tether recovery, but her down special can also act as a third jump. Not quite as powerful, in my opinion, but definitely faster and better, once again in my opinion.

What do you guys think of samus/zero suit?

HTA! · July 13, 2008, 08:45:21 PM

Zamus > Samus

She is quick and has limitless comboing capabilities.
But still, she's very light and at best a mediocre character.

Not much to say here.

Cornwad · July 13, 2008, 09:24:28 PM

I like Zero Suit much more than Samus...

But I don't use either of them much. I wouldn't say that either of them are very good characters.

Ugawa · July 15, 2008, 11:01:27 AM

Aight, next up is Kirby...now, we had a lively debate (semi) at FCD the first time this thread went around, where some people thought Kirby deserved high tier and was really good, but I thought otherwise.

For me, Kirby's hammer, his most powerful move, is hard to land. I think a good brawler will be able to dodge the hammer 90% of the time and then hit back with a strong move, rendering the usage of the hammer pretty useless. Who wants something that will hit 10% of the time, while the other 90% results in failure? The numbers are of course made up, but I don't see the hammer hitting much.

Plus, Kirby is light. He's easily tossed around. Enough said.

Kirby's suck thing is relatively good, but again, only a fool would fall for it. Also, down-B is disastrous if it misses. If it hits and is timed right, it can be used handily, but like I said, if it misses, it's a free grab or smash.

His recovery is good. He's got multiple jumps and a decent up-B that can be used for vertical distance as well as some pretty good damage. His smashes are okay, and I dunno much about his tilts. Aerials aren't horrible, but if someone uses an aerial against Kirby, his light weight doesn't help him much.

What do you think about Kirby?

Ugawa · July 18, 2008, 08:06:25 AM

...Guess not too many Kirby people here...

Okay, next is Fox. Because not too many people are posting on this thread, I'm not going to analyze Fox, and I won't post the next character unless someone responds to this. If nobody analyzes Fox, then this thread will be dead, in other words. I'll just say I rank Fox about 7/10, and if someone posts a response to this, then I'll post an analysis. Otherwise, see you guys elsewhere on the forums.

HTA! · July 18, 2008, 08:14:45 AM

Fox is... meh.
He has a small amount of ground combo potential, but overall he lost his luster.
His recovery was buffed, thank god for that, but they screwed with his reflector and we all had to say goodbye to the waveshine.
All the things that made him good in Melee were taken out in Brawl, and we were left with a mediocre character...

6/10

Timmy0591 · July 19, 2008, 06:36:19 PM

Fox is alright. Not much to brag about any more. hes a fast lightweight. a relfector to block projectiles (and good for stalling in the air to avoid a smash attack) I like using Fox because of his moves that have consecutive hits. He has to resort to only 2 or 3 killing moves though, which is kinda a shame.

Ugawa · July 19, 2008, 08:02:38 PM

I agree, but I'd say that Fox is on the better side of the meh characters, although he's still meh. No wavedashing takes a lot out of his game.

His reflector is still decent with no lag startup, meaning if you play with items, he's pretty deadly because he can reflect pretty much everything. However, items aren't really all that popular...

His side smash is a decent move because of the horizontal distance that he gains when he uses it...aerials are okay, but not all that great.

His blaster is great to spam and forces the opponent to approach. Up-B is better, but still not all that good, and side-B is not too bad because it's surprising...just don't spam it and you should be okay.

Timmy0591 · July 19, 2008, 10:04:40 PM

Quote from: Ugawa on July 19, 2008, 08:02:38 PM
I agree, but I'd say that Fox is on the better side of the meh characters, although he's still meh. No wavedashing takes a lot out of his game.

His reflector is still decent with no lag startup, meaning if you play with items, he's pretty deadly because he can reflect pretty much everything. However, items aren't really all that popular...

His side smash is a decent move because of the horizontal distance that he gains when he uses it...aerials are okay, but not all that great.

His blaster is great to spam and forces the opponent to approach. Up-B is better, but still not all that good, and side-B is not too bad because it's surprising...just don't spam it and you should be okay.

Its actually a good thing that they changed his relfector now. He can gimp almost anyone by running off the stage and doing it. The Fsmash is OK, you need to get someone well over 100 to come close to hitting from center stage for a KO. his best killing move is the Usmash, which is so obvious when its coming, considering alot of fox's just rush towards you and spam it for the chance of hitting you. It doesn't help if they spam the Usmash either, because after every Usmash the knockback and damage is severely reduced. The only other move i can see that can kill is his Uair, which has short range and can be punished by most Dairs.

QingXin · July 20, 2008, 03:24:52 PM

Oh boy... Fox's Down-Air is so good as a combo starter. From a dair into a neutral A combo can be a great damage racker, and his Down Smash comes out fast...

That's all I have to say... I play as Fox a lot, and I see the benefits in these a lot :P

HTA! · July 20, 2008, 03:31:01 PM

Quote from: Timmy0591 on July 19, 2008, 10:04:40 PM
Quote from: Ugawa on July 19, 2008, 08:02:38 PM
I agree, but I'd say that Fox is on the better side of the meh characters, although he's still meh. No wavedashing takes a lot out of his game.

His reflector is still decent with no lag startup, meaning if you play with items, he's pretty deadly because he can reflect pretty much everything. However, items aren't really all that popular...

His side smash is a decent move because of the horizontal distance that he gains when he uses it...aerials are okay, but not all that great.

His blaster is great to spam and forces the opponent to approach. Up-B is better, but still not all that good, and side-B is not too bad because it's surprising...just don't spam it and you should be okay.

Its actually a good thing that they changed his relfector now. He can gimp almost anyone by running off the stage and doing it. The Fsmash is OK, you need to get someone well over 100 to come close to hitting from center stage for a KO. his best killing move is the Usmash, which is so obvious when its coming, considering alot of fox's just rush towards you and spam it for the chance of hitting you. It doesn't help if they spam the Usmash either, because after every Usmash the knockback and damage is severely reduced. The only other move i can see that can kill is his Uair, which has short range and can be punished by most Dairs.

In Melee U-air was god.
Ah well, and I agree with you on the reflector... mostly.
In Melee, he could gimp as well but now he's lost waveshine combos.
I don;t use him much though, not sure about what he can do...

Ugawa · July 21, 2008, 07:31:04 AM

Alright, next up is Pikachu!!!

Pika is one of the master spammers...sooo annoying, yet kind of difficult to approach. You can have a lot of fun spamming B's and then down-B's.

Pika's best move (in my opinion) is its down-B...you can grab, up-throw into down-B, or just down-B to take out any opponent in the air. If used correctly, it renders an opponents aerial game useless...maybe not short hops as much...

Pika's smashes are decent. I'm not entirely positive, but its down smash seems weaker than in Melee, but still pretty effective...and it makes cool sound effects =D

Pika's recovery is good too. It's really quick (hence quick attack) but can be punishable if an opponent guesses or predicts where it will end up...it's not too predictable, but definitely not unpredictable. It can also use side-B to recover.

What do you think of Pikachu?

HTA! · July 21, 2008, 08:52:12 AM

Has a few multi hit attacks for decent damage, and it quick on his feet.
And as you said, his D-Special is extremely annoying and when spammed on the ledge it can be lethal.
However, an experienced smasher can anticipate these move and they pose no overly serious threat.
He's also super light, and even a great recovery can't stop a KO smash.