Game Balance

Ikkitrix · October 11, 2007, 06:32:03 PM

I often see people refer to SSBB as a "perfect game" or "better than SSBM"... But without the game being out or even FINISHED, how does anyone know?

Balance will have a large affect on the greatness of the game. Nintendo admittedly got a little lucky with the balance of SSBM. After all the glitches and advanced techniques that they never even envisioned were discovered and put to use, the game came out balanced somehow. Sure some characters are a lot better than others and got a much greater benefit from the advanced techniques, but where would ICs be without wavedashing? Ganondorf without L Cancelling? They would be really bad. In this case, these unforeseen events helped balance the game and it came out that it's possible for any character to win a tournament if used well enough (ChuDatz with the Pichu, Taj with the M2, etc.). By used well enough, I mean if the player has the mindgames to crush their opponent.

From what I've seen of Brawl, Metaknight looks slightly broken. He has fast comboistic moves, a long reach and even multiple kill moves. What has been shown of him is obviously only the tip of the iceburg (along with all the other characters) since the players were subpar. Thus, it's impossible to gauge the balance of the game from the updates so far. And since balance is easily one of the most important parts of a fighting game, there is no way to tell if Brawl will be the perfect game we think it is going to be. What if when it comes out a new advanced technique is found that is character specific for say... Pit. Let's say this technique is ridiculously cheap and everyone online finds out about it and every game you play has a Pit abusing it. Game falls apart.

Don't misunderstand me, my current hype for this game is immeasurable. I'm just saying how easily this game could end up being not so amazing. Melee is great because it's balance worked out amazingly. (with the exception of a few things). If Nintendo can balance Brawl properly, then the game will be amazing beyond comprehension, but it'll take a few months after it's release for the actual balance of the game to be realized (even more if it's like Melee, hell, the last tier list change was... A half a year ago? 5-6 years after it's release and new techniques were still getting developed).

I APOLOGIZE FOR WALL OF TEXT. =( It's a touchy subject to me.

Triforce_Luigi · October 11, 2007, 06:42:35 PM

Indeed. Balance can make or break this game for some. Not me though. I usually use whatever character I feel like and avoid tactics like those.

Ikkitrix · October 11, 2007, 06:46:44 PM

Even then, if you liked a subpar character and there just so happens to be a broken character that everyone uses online (Not Fox-broken, think SSB-Kirby-broken BUT WORSE), online, and in turn, the game itself would be frustrating to play, right? Of course bans are possible in a tourney situation, but usually people online do whatever they can to win even when there's no reward for winning.

Triforce_Luigi · October 11, 2007, 06:49:57 PM

Yes, I see the truth in that. SSB Kirby was really broken. That would be annoying if everyone chose a broken character, though I have long held onto the belief that any character could beat such a character. I just hope my wi-fi can start working again. Unfortunately, only a small amount of people would choose a character like, say, Bowser, when they could play as Fox or Sonic. And Sonic seems broken with his spin dash combos. I'm sure that he would be used alot on wifi for his speed.

Ikkitrix · October 11, 2007, 06:52:52 PM

I don't see anything too great about Sonic as of now. All they really did in the video debuting him was his Over B to presumably his back aerial. You don't need a flashy over B for something like that, most people can just up an Up throw (or you can go Falco on them and abuse the shine combos). xD Basically, I don't view a 2hit combo that doesn't effectively kill or lead to other combos as game breaking.

Triforce_Luigi · October 11, 2007, 06:56:52 PM

True. However, in one of the videos, we saw Sonic in battle. It may have been because this was a video, but he seemed to have good combo power. I'm estimating that he'll be as fast as Fox with decent combo ability. His attack may have just seemed like that in the image. On an unrelated note, did you notice how most of the videos and pictures of Sonic involved beating up Mario?

Ikkitrix · October 11, 2007, 07:02:39 PM

Lol XDD Pro sega propaganda, obviously.

Hm, I'll have to watch that video again... And Fox doesn't have good comboability? He's the only person with an infinite (although it only works on some of the characters). xD

Triforce_Luigi · October 11, 2007, 07:09:17 PM

He does? I don't use Fox much. I suppose his combos are rather good. Most fast characters have good combos. They should give characters like Bowser some sort of attack that lets them escape. I beat up Bowser with Sheik and this was something I noticed. Characters like Fox should be nerfed, but not as bad as Ness and Kirby. Sure thet were strong, but they're terrible in Melee. That's why I'm excited about Lucas. He seems to be like a slightly weaker SSB Ness.

IAMTHEGAMER · October 11, 2007, 08:13:49 PM

summorize please!

Ikkitrix · October 11, 2007, 08:17:36 PM

You'd get a much better idea of what I'm talking about, my examples and my support if you took the minimal amount of time to read the entire post...

But if you really don't have the time or will to read it, just read the last paragraph above my apology, I guess...

Triforce_Luigi: Yes, Nintendo needs to nerf Fox, Falco, Marth (if he's in), Sheik, etc. to the point that they're even with other characters. Not what happened to Pika, Ness and Kirby as you mentioned. xD. Also, it wasn't that Fox could combo you to death with horribly flashy nonsense that made him amazing (although you can waveshine people across stages and shine spike them). What made him great were a few simple combos such as Up throw to Up Air, chainthrows on Fox/Falco and finishing them with an Up Smash, shining people off the stage at low percent, and stuff as simple as spot dodging at a critical moment to sneak in an up smash for a kill at relatively low percents. Not to mention his speed gave him some really good tech chasing ability, his recovery was godly and his ability to put pressure on people was uncanny. Basically, everything worked for him. As for Kirby, the bulk of his strategy is based around ledge camping, committing suicide to get kills and generally relying on mindgames combined his crouch and wavedashes to get a hit in. Even when you do get hits in with your really small range, they're weak, don't combo well, and he really doesn't have any kill moves. Not a very solid strategy, especially when mindgames are mostly based on your opponent.