Alright, at this point, I think it's pretty obvious that we will always have clones, and by clones I don't necessarily mean carbon copy, I mean same basic Specials (for example, Falco is a Fox clone, Ganondorf is a Captain Falcon clone, but Luigi is NOT a Mario clone). So, I was thinking... wouldn't cloning be an easy way for us to get DLC characters? I mean, yeah, we don't like clones, but as long as we HAVE TO HAVE THEM, why not use it to our advantage? For example, I think that Mewtwo could come back as a Lucario clone, only with different standard attacks and style, like Falco is with Fox.
So, if cloning meant we could get more characters, who would you want in and who would they be cloned from?
I would like to see Eggplant Wizard as a clone of Yoshi.
I don't really know.
I guess... Hmm...
I guess I would like Dr. Mario to come back. I did like him as a clone, but he needs to be more revised. Much like Lucas is to Ness, if you can picture it. Same KINDS of moves, but each set works differently.
Falco isn't really a fox clone.
I could see Hector as an Ike clone.
Although, Wii would have to be able to handle DLC first.
Quote from: HTA on July 16, 2009, 10:57:53 AM
Falco isn't really a fox clone.
I could see Hector as an Ike clone.
Although, Wii would have to be able to handle DLC first.
Guitar Hero for Wii has DLC.
Quote from: SmashBro25 on July 16, 2009, 11:10:17 AM
Guitar Hero for Wii has DLC.
I meant large DLC, for a character would take up a fair amount of space considering all the info that would have to come with it.
Not to say the Wii couldn't handle a few characters, but nothing worth while.
And the fact that a character would more than likely cost money, and imagine Wi-fi problems.
Two people who could play before could get different DLC and not be able to play with each other.
Clones = lazy
and the Wii can't handle DLC. Too little memory.
Quote from: JrDude ♪ on July 16, 2009, 02:22:46 PM
Goomba as a Samus clone.
Hey, since none of this will never happen, I could suggest anything =D
I'd think it obvious that the purpose of the thread is a hypothetical situation. Answer as if it not only could happen, but that it IS happening.
Quote from: SmashBro25 on July 16, 2009, 03:16:54 PM
I'd think it obvious that the purpose of the thread is a hypothetical situation. Answer as if it not only could happen, but that it IS happening.
Fine.
Mega Man as a Samus clone.
There are rumors of wii with a hard drive and HD resolution coming out next holiday...
Quote from: Depster on July 16, 2009, 06:40:28 PM
There are rumors of wii with a hard drive and HD resolution coming out next holiday...
those are just rumors. Nintendo hates HD for whatever reason, I really don't get it.
Besides, adding that NEXT holiday season will be far too little far too late. At that point Nintendo should just hold of for the Wii2 and go all out for that system at launch.
Quote from: HTA on July 16, 2009, 10:57:53 AM
Falco isn't really a fox clone.
I could see Hector as an Ike clone.
Although, Wii would have to be able to handle DLC first.
How is he not?
Every single move is the same. The only difference is speed and how he now kicks his reflector.
Quote from: Riddler_Rob on July 17, 2009, 04:13:53 PM
How is he not?
Every single move is the same. The only difference is speed and how he now kicks his reflector.
Falco isn't a clone in Melee or Brawl.
Quote from: Riddler_Rob on July 17, 2009, 04:13:53 PM
How is he not?
Every single move is the same. The only difference is speed and how he now kicks his reflector.
Go do Fox's N-air.
Now do Falco's
And, their specials behave differently.
Clones are a new spin on a similar character, but clone is not the correct term in my opinion.
Quote from: Echo on July 17, 2009, 04:16:20 PM
Falco isn't a clone in Melee or Brawl.
??? Okay, I can almost see an argument for him not being a clone in brawl, but there is absolutely no question that he's a clone in Melee.
The way most determine clone: Same B moves (whether they are SLIGHTLY different or not)
Quote from: SmashBro25 on July 17, 2009, 05:45:24 PM
??? Okay, I can almost see an argument for him not being a clone in brawl, but there is absolutely no question that he's a clone in Melee.
try playing Fox.....then try playing Falco. The play style for the two characters is drastically different,
Quote from: Echo on July 17, 2009, 09:05:01 PM
try playing Fox.....then try playing Falco. The play style for the two characters is drastically different,
It doesn't matter, the moves are the same in Melee, and still similar in Brawl.
Both B's are blasters, both side B's are illusions, both up b's are "fiyas!", both down b's are reflectors and both final smashes are LANDMASTA!
If the moves are the same and called the same thing, then they're clones. The only person this makes sense for is, well, Toon Link/Link... since they're inherently the same person. But even then I don't like it.
Hey guys, Samus and Mario have the same N-aair.
Damn clones.
Quote from: HTA on July 17, 2009, 10:50:28 PM
Hey guys, Samus and Mario have the same N-aair.
Damn clones.
I know, they should just remove Samus all together :|
In case anyone actually considers that sarcasm, just let me state (as Nayr and Jr have already said on this same page!) that in Super Smash Bros., a "clone" is someone whose entire Special moveset is nearly identical to another. For example:
Wolf and Falco = Fox clones
Ganondorf = Captain Falcon clone
Toon Link = Link clone
Lucas = Ness clone
Luigi = NOT Mario clone (possibly as of Melee, but definitely as of Brawl)
Lucario = NOT Mewtwo clone
Quote from: Nayrman on July 17, 2009, 09:08:30 PM
If the moves are the same and called the same thing, then they're clones.
hmm, if the moves are the same, then shouldn't they play the same? Fortunately the moves aren't the same, they perform very differently, they just look the same.
Plus if Falco Phantasm is the same name as Fox Illusion then.......
Another pokemon clone i suppose. Or bring pichu back
Quote from: Mutilator<Seven> on July 18, 2009, 10:22:10 AM
Another pokemon clone i suppose. Or bring pichu back
Your kidding, right? (http://assets.nsider2.com/forums/style_emoticons/Classic_Smilies/16x16_man-indifferent.gif)
shadow as a sonic clone. raiden would be a good snake clone. only more agile
Specials have to be the same?
Keep in mind, besides from some animations-
Samus and Link both have bombs as Down B
Samus and Link both have multihit, mainly vertical, recoveries
Samus and Link can both charge the neutral B's which are projectiles
Samus and Link both have projectiles as Side-B
Samus and Link both have the same N-air
Samus and Link both have grappling hook grabs
Samus and Link have the same Z-air
Samus and Link both have the same U-smash, multi-hit and small horizontal range.
Samus and Link have the same B-air, animation looks almost identical
But they aren't clones?
I compare Falco's Reflector to Fox's Reflector, Falco's Blaster to Fox's Blaster, Falco's illusion dash to Fox's illusion dash, and Falco's flame-covered launch to Fox's flame-covered launch.
You compare Samus' morph-ball bombs with Link's bombs, Samus' charge beam with Link's Bow & Arrow, Samus' missile with Link's Gale Boomerang, and Samus' Screw Attack with Link's Spin Attack?
REALLY?
Quote from: SmashBro25 on July 18, 2009, 06:16:38 PM
I compare Falco's Reflector to Fox's Reflector, Falco's Blaster to Fox's Blaster, Falco's illusion dash to Fox's illusion dash, and Falco's flame-covered launch to Fox's flame-covered launch.
You compare Samus' morph-ball bombs with Link's bombs, Samus' charge beam with Link's Bow & Arrow, Samus' missile with Link's Gale Boomerang, and Samus' Screw Attack with Link's Spin Attack?
REALLY?
Yes, because they are similar moves, with similar hitobxes, with similar animations, with similar uses.
What is the difference between Link's arrow and Samus' charge shot besides how they look?
Anything? Some damage and knockback tweaks obviously... but isn't that what they do with all "clones" attacks?
Link= Arrow, slightly glows, hold to charge, small damage and knockback
Samus= Energy Ball, greatly increase in size, tap to charge, large damage and knockback
Falco= Reflector, deflects projectiles, damages enemies during initial start-up, moves forward before turning off
Fox= Reflector, deflects projectiles, damages enemies during initial start-up, stays in place while held
As you can see, there is a difference between having many differences and having few differences... which I believe they teach kids on Sesame Street. I suppose next you'll be saying Captain Falcon is a DK clone because they both have chargable punches, or that Ness is a Mario clone because they both shoot fire? You are greatly exaggerating in your arguments for reasons I don't quite understand (are you somehow offended by certain characters being called clones?), and it seems either you're not getting what a "clone" in Smash really is, or you're being a smart a**, neither of which holds any ground.
Quote from: SmashBro25 on July 18, 2009, 07:29:43 PM
Link= Arrow, slightly glows, hold to charge, small damage and knockback
Samus= Energy Ball, greatly increase in size, tap to charge, large damage and knockback
Falco= Reflector, deflects projectiles, damages enemies during initial start-up, moves forward before turning off
Fox= Reflector, deflects projectiles, damages enemies during initial start-up, stays in place while held
As you can see, there is a difference between having many differences and having few differences... which I believe they teach kids on Sesame Street. I suppose next you'll be saying Captain Falcon is a DK clone because they both have chargable punches, or that Ness is a Mario clone because they both shoot fire? You are greatly exaggerating in your arguments for reasons I don't quite understand (are you somehow offended by certain characters being called clones?), and it seems either you're not getting what a "clone" in Smash really is, or you're being a smart a**, neither of which holds any ground.
High five.
I mostly consider clones via B-moves and smashes. N-air's, side A's, etc. are always commonplace, even in traditional fighting games you see stuff like that. You know that HTA.
I find it difficult to understand the comparison of Link and Samus, as while they're both "bombs", "spinning up B's" etc., they work incredibly differently in terms of visual design, use, etc.
Meanwhile, things like Fox and Falco's down B, while different and have different uses in their metagame, the original intent and visual design says they're end result is meant to be exactly the same in terms of combat. To reflect things.
Last post.
I'm not being serious Nayr. :P
Anyway, yes I know how we define clones, and how moves differ.
I just don't feel clones are such terrible things.
This is reminding me of Old Smash Board a little. D:
Quote from: HTA on July 18, 2009, 07:48:26 PM
Last post.
I'm not being serious Nayr. :P
Anyway, yes I know how we define clones, and how moves differ.
I just don't feel clones are such terrible things.
This is reminding me of Old Smash Board a little. D:
While the utterly pointless argument does remind me of the old smash board, at least we're having a reasonably well thought out argument about it, compared to the Oldsider board of "Nook's gonna be in Brawl!" "Nuh uh!" "Yea so!" and the like X_X;;
Admittedly, it could be worse, I just feel that if Sakurai and the development team have this much time and money to build the Subspace Emissary, they could've at least gone through and eliminated clones altogether. It's not like it's terribly difficult. It just feels lazy and unsatisfying. As I've said, only Toon/Young Link makes sense, since him and Link are essentially the same person X_X;; Ganondorf, Falco, Wolf, Lucas, etc. could've easily been de-cloned, but they're not because despite having plenty to go off of, Sakurai just got lazy.
I miss Docter Mario, by the way.
Would love to see him as an alternate costume at least.
Let me pose that question.
Would you rather have clones as alternate costumes rather than individual characters?
For some it would not work.
However, Docter Mario and Mario would work.
Would you rather Falco and Fox have identical move sets, but are simply different costumes?
oh ho ho silly Nayr " I just feel that if Sakurai and the development team have this much time and money to build the Subspace Emissary, they could've at least gone through and eliminated clones altogether"
Why work on clones when SSE is clearly the most important thing in Brawl?....I mean Brawl IS all about the multiplayer, so it only makes sense to put that much time and effort into a 1P mode that has no plot and is incredibly bland and repetitive. In fact, why work on any of the other great 1P modes that were in Melee, nobody really wanted more event matches anyways, plus BtT and HRC were boring so no need to work on those.....right?
yeah intercourse the SSE...... its pretty much the main reason Brawl sucks.....Plus I remember someone saying, about a year a go I think, that SSE cut scenes take up about......oh half of the disc space......theres the room for all your precious new characters.
/rant
But back to clones......all the "clones" play so incredibly different then the originas that they shouldn't be called clones. Moves may look similar but they behave very differently. the only exception to this is Doctor M.....you have a legit reason to ninny about him lol.
Quote from: HTA on July 18, 2009, 08:06:12 PM
I miss Docter Mario, by the way.
Would love to see him as an alternate costume at least.
Let me pose that question.
Would you rather have clones as alternate costumes rather than individual characters?
For some it would not work.
However, Docter Mario and Mario would work.
Would you rather Falco and Fox have identical move sets, but are simply different costumes?
Doc Mario should totally be a separate costume. There is absolutely no need for two Mario's running around in the game. But separate costume, totally.
Would I rather have clones as alt. costumes? It depends on the character. Falco/Wolf could totally be alt. costumes of Fox with a simple voice change. All three have similar "body structures" and physical traits and they are all in the same series. If it weren't for Falco's jump and slower running speed, him and Fox would've been blatantly alt. costumes of each other in Melee. Same goes for someone like Lucas. Not saying they couldn't be de-cloned, but if they're going to remain obvious clones it would be better to make them a palette swap with a voice change and give the roster spot to a more original character who is equally deserving. (ex. How is Samurai Goroh any less deserving than Wolf? Especially since Star Fox already had a second rep. and only has one more game in the series than F-Zero does? Just as an example though).
However, guys like Ganondorf who are totally separate characters with completely separate series, use in said series, moves in said series, etc. should be original characters.
Quote from: Echo on July 18, 2009, 08:16:25 PM
But back to clones......all the "clones" play so incredibly different then the originas that they shouldn't be called clones. Moves may look similar but they behave very differently. the only exception to this is Doctor M.....you have a legit reason to b**** about him lol.
It really doesn't matter that they play "differently", if the B-moves/final smashes are essentially the same thing with intent to act similar, they're clones. All of the Fox character's down B's are reflector shields designed to reflect things. All their side B's are "warp" moves to move about the course. All their final smashes are Landmasters. It's frankly unoriginal and lazy when with even the slightest bit of imagination could've given them completely unique moves instead of the same thing.
This isn't the only fighting game I have issues with. It's the same reason I don't like Heihachi/Kazuya Mishima in Tekken, and was happy Jin changed fighting style. The list goes on for pretty much every other fighting game. In fact, the only fighting game I can think of where every "character" has their own unique special moves are the Jump Stars games, only because it's anime/manga and every character already has at least 4+ moves that could easily be unique per character.
In terms of the clones we have now, I'm really only ticked off about Ganondorf. Granted, every one of them COULD have different moves (and in every fan's opinion SHOULD), but many sorta make sense. I mean Link and Toon Link are pretty obvious, and why would Fox, Falco, and Wolf be different in SSBB if they aren't exactly that different in their own games? And Lucas... well, quite frankly I know nothing of Mother. Ganondorf, however, is absolute nonsense. Not a single move he uses in Smash is a move from his own games (except for his FS), he's the only clone to be copied from a character of another series, and as if to add insult to injury, that character himself doesn't use those moves in his games either!!!
All in all, we don't have clones but a bunch of Luigified characters.
Quote from: wiiboychris on July 18, 2009, 10:15:44 PM
All in all, we don't have clones but a bunch of Luigified characters.
Ganondorf, Lucas, and the Spacey's are clones X_X;;
Speaking of "Luigified," I just noticed that PT is basically Luigified when it comes to B moves.
Squirtle's B = Mario's Down B
Ivysaur's Up B = ZSSamus' Up B
Charizard's B = Bowser's B
Pok?mon Trainer's Down B = Zelda/Sheik's Down B
Just pointing that out.
Another thing, for a long time, I didn't know what you guys meant when you said "clones."
Quote from: Nayrman on July 18, 2009, 11:13:11 PM
Ganondorf, Lucas, and the Spacey's are clones X_X;;
lololol not even close. In Melee they had move that were somewhat similar......but in Brawl they are all 100% different.
and I just got a Swag buck for searching clones :]
Quote from: Echo on July 19, 2009, 08:58:23 AM
lololol not even close. In Melee they had move that were somewhat similar......but in Brawl they are all 100% different.
and I just got a Swag buck for searching clones :]
How are they different? All of the spacey's B's are blasters, down B's are reflectors, etc.
Sure, Ryu and Ken are different characters and play differently, but when they're both using the Soryuuken or the Hadoken, they're both using the same move. The same move is the same move. And since those (Fox/Falco/Wolf, Ness/Lucas, etc.) characters have an abundance of the same moves, I consider them clones.
Quote from: Echo on July 19, 2009, 08:58:23 AM
lololol not even close. In Melee they had move that were somewhat similar......but in Brawl they are all 100% different.
and I just got a Swag buck for searching clones :]
Did... did you actually read this whole thread? Or even play Brawl? Cause saying "100% different" greatly implies that you didn't.
Sadly yes I have played Brawl.
Now for the love of God how can you possibly think the moves are the same? Go play Brawl right now and with Fox, Falco, and Wolf go test the moves. Unless the blaster looks the same, acts the same, and does the exact same amount of damage then they aren't intercourse ing clones. Same applies for all of the moves....with all the clones. Not a single one of the specials is EXACTLY the same.....so its not a darn clone. Now do this for all the "clones" and you will see that none of them are the same move.
Quote from: Echo on July 19, 2009, 03:42:47 PM
Sadly yes I have played Brawl.
Now for the love of God how can you possibly think the moves are the same? Go play Brawl right now and with Fox, Falco, and Wolf go test the moves. Unless the blaster looks the same, acts the same, and does the exact same amount of damage then they aren't f***ing clones. Same applies for all of the moves....with all the clones. Not a single one of the specials is EXACTLY the same.....so its not a dang clone. Now do this for all the "clones" and you will see that none of them are the same move.
So then according to you there is no such thing as a clone in any fighting game whatsoever.
I demand that Pichu, Pikachu, and Raichu all be in Smash 4 with the same basic moveset but with a different metagame!
I actually wanted Raichu lol, and I wouldn't mind that, since I only care about the metagame.
I just hate the phrase clone....since they aren't clones. Obviously Falco and Wolf are based off of Fox, but they aren't exact copies, same for all the "clones". Like I said before the only character that was too similar to its original was Dr. Mario....and look at that they got rid of him.
So you're actually OFFENDED by us using the word clone?!
Quote from: Echo on July 19, 2009, 03:59:42 PM
I actually wanted Raichu lol, and I wouldn't mind that, since I only care about the metagame.
I just hate the phrase clone....since they aren't clones. Obviously Falco and Wolf are based off of Fox, but they aren't exact copies, same for all the "clones". Like I said before the only character that was too similar to its original was Dr. Mario....and look at that they got rid of him.
Oh, so you're one of those guys from Melee who was "Fox on FD only" kind of guys.
I just want original characters that are carefully balanced. Everyone having a blaster, reflector, illusion, etc. is just lazy and unoriginal. It's really not even the animation portion it's just chainging the stats on all of them to a certain extent.
lol I used Bowser one of the absolute worst characters in the game......but yes I played by tourny rules and nothing else, since nothing else was any fun to me.
I really don't care if they have "clones" or not, I kinda like them, but I wouldn't be too upset if they left.
Quote from: Echo on July 19, 2009, 04:24:26 PM
lol I used Bowser one of the absolute worst characters in the game......but yes I played by tourny rules and nothing else, since nothing else was any fun to me.
I really don't care if they have "clones" or not, I kinda like them, but I wouldn't be too upset if they left.
just seeing on what level of tourney-fag you were.
And just to note, I pretty much always use tourney rules, but a change every now and again is fun. Metagame is one thing, but I'd rather have unique characters from series that deserve it and are fun to play. As long as they bother to test the game (which they obviously didn't *glares at Metaknight*) the metagame will be fine.
Quote from: Nayrman on July 19, 2009, 04:30:29 PM
just seeing on what level of tourney-fag you were.
And just to note, I pretty much always use tourney rules, but a change every now and again is fun. Metagame is one thing, but I'd rather have unique characters from series that deserve it and are fun to play. As long as they bother to test the game (which they obviously didn't *glares at Metaknight*) the metagame will be fine.
Well it is the METAgame. [/pun]
I think its more fun to use low tier characters in tourny rules because its just that much more rewarding when you win......if you win. Of course it helped that I also used Falco a lot in Melee, but mostly Bowser.
Quote from: Echo on July 19, 2009, 05:24:47 PM
I think its more fun to use low tier characters in tourny rules because its just that much more rewarding when you win......if you win. Of course it helped that I also used Falco a lot in Melee, but mostly Bowser.
I know, I love beating people with my Sonic.
I still want to know what you would consider a "clone" outside of Doc Mario, because from what I've seen even the Doc wouldn't qualify as a clone to you.
I really never had any complaints with any of the "clone" characters.....which is why I was pretty surprised that so many people cared when I first came to Oldsider (oh so long ago).
I guess thats why I don't consider any characters clones......because I just don't really think its that big of a deal that they share some moves with there original characters. Roy is the second closest thing to a clone that I can think of.....but even he has some pretty huge differences.
I wish they changed Falco's Up-B. :(
Quote from: Echo on July 19, 2009, 05:38:20 PM
I really never had any complaints with any of the "clone" characters.....which is why I was pretty surprised that so many people cared when I first came to Oldsider (oh so long ago).
I guess thats why I don't consider any characters clones......because I just don't really think its that big of a deal that they share some moves with there original characters. Roy is the second closest thing to a clone that I can think of.....but even he has some pretty huge differences.
Whether or not you like them has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not they're clones. I mean, I prefer Ganondorf over Captain Falcon and Falco and Wolf over Fox, but they're still clones.
I understand the point of Nayr And Echo.
Nayr feels that if a characters attacks/moves do the Same thing as another character (example, Fox Reflector, Wolf Reflector, Falco Reflector) they are clones. Despite the look/color.
Echo feels differently because when these specific character uses these shields for example they DO look different and can be used differently such as when Falco kicks his reflector.
@ Nayr, would you consider Fox and Wolf to be clones if for some reason Wolf would of carried some kind Shield (not reflector) that reflected projectiles just like Fox's reflector?
Me, honestly I don't care about clones. However, Sakurai is lazy...... and if 7 year old could come up with move sets for characters that are 100% Different then the move set the creators of Smash gave these characters, then the creators have No excuse (or lack of an imagination).
LOL........... 3 Landmasters? ? ? ? ? WTH!
@_@
If they're the same "kind" of character (Ness/Lucas, Fox/Wolf/Falco) and the same move does inherently the same thing, I think they're a cloned move. Regardless of the look. I still say PK Freeze and PK Flash are cloned moves despite the inherent differences.
Hey, tourney fags are cool.
Clone is the name of when a character either uses a move with the same name or does the same thing. Since Fox, Falco, AND Wolf all use a laser gun, it is a cloned move, all 3 have reflectors, so it's a cloned move. Since Fox and Falco both create some "illusion" thing on their side B, it is a cloned move, but Wolf's side B is different but based on the same thing, so people call it a cloned move as well. Same with the up B, Fox and Falco become flaming and go up, so it IS a cloned move, and Wolf's up B goes up in a similar matter, so it is considered a cloned move as well.
Ness and Lucas' both use PK Fire, PK Thunder, and the PSI shield or whatever, different effects, but the same attack, so it is a cloned move. PK Flash and PK Freeze both work in the same matter, they come out of the head and slowly move away, so it is considered a cloned move.
Echo is probably annoyed with Dr. Mario because he IS Mario. Dr. Mario is in fact different in his terms, but you can't change the "Mario" in him. But that's just what I think he thinks, I could be wrong.
After reading Echo's posts, it made me feel less annoyed by "clones." But I would still like them to go away.
I'm not really annoyed by Doc, because really its just an extra character that we wouldn't have had if he was made into an alt. costume. I'm just saying he is the closest thing to a true clone.
I prefer doc. But really, I think all clones are different enough in brawl. They are all luigified pretty heavily and even if the specials are the same, they work incredibly differently in most cases. Don't forget that the smashes are all way different, too.
True; in Melee they were almost literally clones, but at least in Brawl most of their A moves are different.
Do characters with the same stage entrance count?
As clones..?
Yes they count, Pikachu, Purin, Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard are all clones.
Some say Charizard is supposed to be a Bowser 2.0.
Minus the flying.
I don't even understand why people back then assumed ZSS was a Sheik clone.
Quote from: JrDude ♪ on July 22, 2009, 03:57:15 PM
As clones..?
Yes they count, Pikachu, Purin, Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard are all clones.
What?
The definition is really intercourse ed up then.
Clones,:
SSB:
Mario - Luigi
SSBM:
Mario - Dr. Mario - Luigi (Begin Luigification)
Link - Young Link
Pikachu - Pichu
Captain Falcon - Ganondorf
Fox - Falco
Roy - Marth
SSBB:
Link - Toon Link
Captain Falcon - Ganondorf
Fox - Falco - Wolf
Ness - Lucas
In SSBB, Luigi is different enough to not be considered a clone anymore.
He's making fun of the idea that same entrances mean they're clones. Someone didn't read the post X_X
Quote from: Riddler_Rob on July 23, 2009, 06:55:16 PM
What?
The definition is really intercourse ed up then.
Yes indeed it is.
Quote from: Riddler_Rob on July 23, 2009, 06:55:16 PM
In SSBB, Luigi is different enough to not be considered a clone anymore.
Wrong, he is just Super-Luigified clone.
I'd say Luigi is no longer a clone, considering the only thing he has in common with Mario is 2 Specials.
Quote from: SmashBro25 on July 23, 2009, 08:19:46 PM
I'd say Luigi is no longer a clone, considering the only thing he has in common with Mario is 2 Specials.
and yet Wolf has only one special in commin with Fox, yet he is a clone?
Quote from: Echo on July 23, 2009, 08:21:36 PM
and yet Wolf has only one special in commin with Fox, yet he is a clone?
Wolf has 4 out of 4 specials in common with Fox, plus a Final Smash.
Quote from: SmashBro25 on July 23, 2009, 08:34:25 PM
Wolf has 4 out of 4 specials in common with Fox, plus a Final Smash.
Actually not really, Wolf's just goes up then kicks while Fox is flaming with no kick. And his side B makes him go up and to the side, Fox's makes blue Fox's appear and makes him go quickly to the right. You people just consider it cloned moves, but if any other character that isn't Star Fox related had it, you wouldn't notice the similarity.
And with Luigi, his Down B is still based off Mario's original Down B which is now his D Air, so I still consider him somewhat a clone.
Quote from: JrDude ♪ on July 23, 2009, 08:42:11 PM
Actually not really, Wolf's just goes up then kicks while Fox is flaming with no kick. And his side B makes him go up and to the side, Fox's makes blue Fox's appear and makes him go quickly to the right. You people just consider it cloned moves, but if any other character that isn't Star Fox related had it, you wouldn't notice the similarity.
And with Luigi, his Down B is still based off Mario's original Down B which is now his D Air, so I still consider him somewhat a clone.
Like Ganondorf isn't a Captain Falcon clone because Captain Falcon has fire and Ganondorf has purple magic? Wolf=Fox clone.
As for Luigi, I don't consider his Down B to be cloned off of Mario because I look at the current game, not the old ones, and in the current game Mario doesn't have a spinning attack as a special.
Quote from: SmashBro25 on July 23, 2009, 08:53:35 PM
Like Ganondorf isn't a Captain Falcon clone because Captain Falcon has fire and Ganondorf has purple magic? Wolf=Fox clone.
As for Luigi, I don't consider his Down B to be cloned off of Mario because I look at the current game, not the old ones, and in the current game Mario doesn't have a spinning attack as a special.
No, you're completely missing the point. Wolf =/= Ganondorf, Ganondorf is almost 100% clone, even his A moves are the same as CF. Plus, besides Strength, Ganondorf's attacks have the exact same effect as CF's (except the Side B now). You cannot compare Wolf's cloneness with Ganondorf's.
Quote from: SmashBro25 on July 23, 2009, 08:34:25 PM
Wolf has 4 out of 4 specials in common with Fox, plus a Final Smash.
wow your a moron. Wolf's B isn't a thing like Fox's. Wolf's is much slower, the beam is larger, and the blaster hurts people when it directly touches them. If Wolf's blaster is a copy of Fox's blaster then I guess all projectile attacks are cloned moves.
Wolf's side b goes at a diagonal angle and has a hitbox on the very end of the attack that does damage and has high knock-back (it may even be a spike I forgot). idk if your too stupid to realize but Fox's doesn't do this.
Wolf's Up B doesn't even look a thing like Fox's, it just acts similarly. Holy poop guess what? DK whirls around in a circle in his Up B move and slowly gains vertical distance......and so does Link!! Well darn, another clone right there that we didn't even know about!
tl;dr your a moron.
Quote from: Echo on July 23, 2009, 09:21:17 PM
wow your a moron. Wolf's B isn't a thing like Fox's. Wolf's is much slower, the beam is larger, and the blaster hurts people when it directly touches them. If Wolf's blaster is a copy of Fox's blaster then I guess all projectile attacks are cloned moves.
Well you're talking about the attack effect now, these people consider clones things that look the same. If you mean effects, then no one would be clones, but that's obviously not the case now is it?
Fox and Wolf's blaster look nothing alike
Quote from: Echo on July 23, 2009, 09:41:21 PM
Fox and Wolf's blaster look nothing alike
They are both laser blasters that shoot lasers.
I didn't mean the weapon looks the same, I meant what they're doing looks the same (Like shooting a laser from a gun :O)
I just realised that Kirby and Metaknight both have the same Up and Down throw.
And no I'm not saying that makes them clones.
It's just something that came to mind and I thought I'd point out.
Ganondorf obviously still remains a cloned version of C. Falcon, no matter how you look it.
Specials
Falcon Punch = Warlock Punch
Falcon Kick = Warlock Kick
Falcon Dive = Dark Dive (Even though Ganondorf's can damage without grabbing, it's still the same thing)
However, Raptor Boost =/= Flame Choak.
Both of their A buttons, grabs and Smash Attacks are exactly the same, excluding the following:
Their tilts, their Up Smash, the Neutral A and the FS.
Now, about the clone I would want, I'm fairly certain everyone knows who.
ZSS shoots lasers from a gun.
what a clone
Quote from: Echo on July 24, 2009, 10:24:08 AM
ZSS shoots lasers from a gun.
what a clone
again, according to you there is no such things as clones in any game whatsoever.
**would love to see you try and defend Luigi not being a Mario clone in New Super Mario Bros. DS**
Quote from: Nayrman on July 24, 2009, 10:35:08 AM
again, according to you there is no such things as clones in any game whatsoever.
**would love to see you try and defend Luigi not being a Mario clone in New Super Mario Bros. DS**
Echo never said something like that.
And weren't we talking about Brawl here?
Quote from: wiiboychris on July 24, 2009, 11:07:25 AM
Echo never said something like that.
And weren't we talking about Brawl here?
I'm making the point that even if it's pretty much the exact same move, as long as they "play differently" it won't matter to Echo, and would require something along Mario/Luigi in New Mario Bros. to make him say something is a clone....
Quote from: Nayrman on July 24, 2009, 10:35:08 AM
again, according to you there is no such things as clones in any game whatsoever.
**would love to see you try and defend Luigi not being a Mario clone in New Super Mario Bros. DS**
dont have a DS, so I've never played NSMB.....sadly it looks good
Quote from: Echo on July 24, 2009, 11:32:16 AM
dont have a DS, so I've never played NSMB.....sadly it looks good
It's basically Mario World with the Wall jump which makes it painfully easy at points.
But yes it's a good game.
I didn't invent the term for SSB Clones, you make good points, but those characters are clones.