NSFCD

Quote from: MarcThe SBR-B (Smash backroom-Brawl) is currently working towards reaching a final conclusion on Meta Knight. This issue has divided the community for at least a year now and we had already decided that we?d come to a definitive answer after Genesis, the major tournament in San Francisco. We had both sides write up a short essay consisting of their main arguments and are having a final poll in the SBR to decide our official stance. The pro-ban side needs a 2/3 majority for Meta Knight to get banned, as is the procedure for everything the SBR recommends be banned.

Do you think Meta Knight should be banned? Why? Do you think he should stay legal? Why? Discuss.

If you want to read both sides of the argument, go to  and scroll down a bit. (http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=242903%5B/url)

MK is getting banned.
If it wasn't decided until now its a sign most people are against him i would think.

Eh... at least tourneys won't suck ass now.

He isn't THAT good in my opinion, but dawei told me that you might as well vote yes since it will eventually happen anyway, which does make a lot of sense... It's basically guaranteed that it will happen someday...

I say yes. He probably will end up banned from the looks of things on SmashBoards.

I'm still saying no. So many people use him now that it would screw up some players game. Plus, once he's gone, I can see people starting to complain about Snake. People just need to figure out his opponent better to see what he is going to do. I thought that was why they were pros at the game.

Quote from: MagnumSonic on July 30, 2009, 11:11:52 AM
I'm still saying no. So many people use him now that it would screw up some players game. Plus, once he's gone, I can see people starting to complain about Snake. People just need to figure out his opponent better to see what he is going to do. I thought that was why they were pros at the game.

1- The point is to mess up people's game.
2- Snake is almost as good as MK, but he has counters and can be beaten regularly by a good player.
3- SBR is one of the most knowledgeable groups of people on smash. After numerous tourneys and countless comparisons, it is clear he is overpowered.
He already has some techniques banned (DICK), he had 0 negative match-ups and 0 50/50 match-ups, he has 0 negative counter stages.
4- MK has no counter, there is no new technique to beat him.

Quote from: MagnumSonic on July 30, 2009, 11:11:52 AM
I'm still saying no. So many people use him now that it would screw up some players game. Plus, once he's gone, I can see people starting to complain about Snake. People just need to figure out his opponent better to see what he is going to do. I thought that was why they were pros at the game.

OH MY FUCKING GOD. I SWEAR TO GOD I'M GOING TO PUNCH THE NEXT PERSON IN THE FACE THAT SAYS IF PEOPLE BAN MK, THEY'LL JUST COMPLAIN ABOUT WHOEVER'S 2ND BEST. THE TWO CHARACTERS ARE TOTALLY COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. MK HAS NO BAD MATCHUPS OR STAGES. SNAKE HAS BAD MATCHUPS AND STAGES. GOD DAMN IT.

So the poll on Smash Boards doesn't decide if he's banned or not right? It just counts as bonus points?

Meta Knight-Chuck Norris

Snake-Jackie Chan

Chuck Norris is unstoppable and would have to be disqualified from any fighting tournaments.


Jackie Chan is badass, but can be stopped.

Quote from: Dawei on July 30, 2009, 11:52:02 AM
OH MY FUCKING GOD. I SWEAR TO GOD I'M GOING TO PUNCH THE NEXT PERSON IN THE FACE THAT SAYS IF PEOPLE BAN MK, THEY'LL JUST COMPLAIN ABOUT WHOEVER'S 2ND BEST. THE TWO CHARACTERS ARE TOTALLY COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. MK HAS NO BAD MATCHUPS OR STAGES. SNAKE HAS BAD MATCHUPS AND STAGES. GOD DAMN IT.

Just because it hasn't been found yet doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I love when people ninny about characters.
Same about stages.
Same about items.

You suck the fun out of the game.

Quote from: Riddler_Rob on July 31, 2009, 06:18:45 AM
Just because it hasn't been found yet doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I love when people b**** about characters.
Same about stages.
Same about items.

You suck the fun out of the game.

Yes it does.
You don't understand, MK is TOO GOOD.

Quote from: HTA on July 31, 2009, 07:20:14 AM
Yes it does.
You don't understand, MK is TOO GOOD.

Well then get better and learn to use him yourself.

Quote from: Riddler_Rob on July 31, 2009, 07:28:38 AM
Well then get better and learn to use him yourself.

So all tourneys should be Metaknight only? X_X;;

6 months ago, I thought people would learn how to counter him.

6 months later, I now think the opposite.

Quote from: Nayrman on July 31, 2009, 07:34:01 AM
So all tourneys should be Metaknight only? X_X;;

People will get bored of it eventually.
If not, learn how to be tricky. Don't worry about countering, mindintercourse  the other player.

Quote from: Riddler_Rob on July 31, 2009, 08:21:15 AM
People will get bored of it eventually.
If not, learn how to be tricky. Don't worry about countering, mindf*** the other player.

interest or a couple hundred to a few thousand dollars...
I wonder what the pro players will choose?

Mindgames don't really work against the best MEtaknight players in the world who are used to such things.

Quote from: Nayrman on July 31, 2009, 08:58:18 AM
interest or a couple hundred to a few thousand dollars...
I wonder what the pro players will choose?

Mindgames don't really work against the best MEtaknight players in the world who are used to such things.

I read all of the arguments for both sides.
I still agree with anti-ban.
Metaknight may not have any "bad matches", but he's not particularly strong against anyone. He only wins 30% or whatever the number was of all the tournaments money.

How about just spam the intercourse  out of marth's counter move. :P

J/K

M2K breaks all arguments.
Have you seen him play recently?

We'll just have to wait and see... a ban would be huge...

This argument is the only thing needed to prove that Brawl is fail.

MK should be banned though, there is no reason to not ban him. Seriously ppl all casualfags complained about Melee being dominated by Fox, and MK is used far more then Fox ever was.

Well, he is broken. Especially with recoveries. He has many recovery options, and they can do more than most of the other characters can.

And Snake can C4 himself whenever he wants. It's not a hard technique. B-Down, B-Down, B-up. You have to smash him up or completely out if you want him gone.

Diddy has a great counter for recovery. Don't know if anyone saw this but it was a Diddy Vs. Meta-Knight, and Meta-Knight went to finish Diddy off when he was off the stage. Diddy used B-over and got them both to the bottom and then let go and recovered while MK got K.O. It was great.

And Hector, I have no clue about any of the statistics because I don't watch that. I watch the matches. And I've seen M2K. F*ckin insane. He's actually the first person that comes to mind when I hear Meta-Knight. I still think it's just stupid to ban a character unless that character is winning all the tournaments.

Also Dawei, sorry to hit a bad spot, but you know that people are dumb enough to complain about it. They'll make some excuse like they do in any fighting game. All you'll hear soon is Snake and Diddy getting bashed because of great players playing them great. It's easy to see that they are different, and that is what is going to get people started.

no i like using meta knight

Snake can't c4 recover at high percents and he's easy to intercept anyway. Diddy's recovery isn't that great, the meta probably just wasn't paying attention, m2k isn't the problem, and snake and diddy have counters so people won't complain near as bad and they will never get banned, and nobody cares about the MK mains here.

It's not like if they ban MK we won't play against you if you use him.
But official tourneys will ban him, as they should.

Dep, the point was that players like M2K are so good with MK that it takes almost perfect play to beat them in their prime. It can and has been done, but more and more people will eventually go over to MK to the point where a tourney will become a "Who has the best MK" contest.

Snake isn't too hard to intercept or gimp after a C4 recovery, and there is always the grab gimp.

The Ban isn't aimed at high level play, a lot of people are evenish with M2K and Tyrant.  The ban is mostly aimed at mid level players because there's more of them than the ever so famous high level players.  The best don't care because they can win either way, it's just the lower skilled players whining so badly.

Quote from: Depster on August 02, 2009, 08:38:34 AM
The Ban isn't aimed at high level play, a lot of people are evenish with M2K and Tyrant.  The ban is mostly aimed at mid level players because there's more of them than the ever so famous high level players.  The best don't care because they can win either way, it's just the lower skilled players whining so badly.

It would effect all players though, I assume?
Ah well, not like we have a say in it.
I could care less if he isn't banned, just makes more sense to me to ban him looking at the current situation.

It's obvious sakurai was playing favorites with meta knight. He did create him after all.

i say yes as many people said he has no counter and there is no way to beat him every time. so broken. its so frustrating to lose to him.

Quote from: MagnumSonic on August 01, 2009, 10:19:44 PM

Diddy has a great counter for recovery. Don't know if anyone saw this but it was a Diddy Vs. Meta-Knight, and Meta-Knight went to finish Diddy off when he was off the stage. Diddy used B-over and got them both to the bottom and then let go and recovered while MK got K.O. It was great.

Lol, that was back when M2K wasn't as great and Ninjalink was awesome, it's really old.  Just saying.

The poll was closed. Proban won by about 300 votes. Not alot.

Proban still got raped in the SBR poll, so he's not being banned.

MK stays!

your all fags

Bah.

does this mean all the tourney's are gonna become MK vs MK the entire time?

Quote from: Nayrman on August 10, 2009, 09:52:06 AM
does this mean all the tourney's are gonna become MK vs MK the entire time?

Probably not, but the ban was going to prevent that among other things.
Fiction's thing on MK and how he is broken gave more evidence than I even knew about... and he still didn't get banned...

Its hopeless now.

I know I know, just making fun of the old "Fox only, Final Destination, NO ITEMS" mentality from Melee for a while.

I still say no one tested the game.

Quote from: Nayrman on August 10, 2009, 10:00:34 AM
I know I know, just making fun of the old "Fox only, Final Destination, NO ITEMS" mentality from Melee for a while.

I still say no one tested the game.

Like there is a way to "unbreak" MK?
It will almost have to be found now, otherwise we'll see this again in a few months.

(Sure they say its final, it won't be)

No, basically the mentality that tourney's become only 2-3 characters because they're so much better than everyone else. Although since Brawl came out Melee looks perfectly balanced X_X;;

And what I mean by "no one tested it" meaning guys like Metaknight, Snake, and Falco are so blatantly overpowered you wonder how the dev team didn't notice...

I think the development team did a good job in making Meta Knight balanced. His final smash isn't very good, so it balances him out. It makes perfect sense.

I hope that's sarcasm, Cornwad.

Quote from: Cornwad on August 10, 2009, 11:26:48 AM
I think the development team did a good job in making Meta Knight balanced. His final smash isn't very good, so it balances him out. It makes perfect sense.

Who needs a final smash when you beat everyone in everything? XD

Quote from: Cornwad on August 10, 2009, 11:26:48 AM
I think the development team did a good job in making Meta Knight balanced. His final smash isn't very good, so it balances him out. It makes perfect sense.

Dude.


Dude...

yes Nayr tournys are now going to be at least 90% MK players (as if it wasn't like this already). I'm actually kinda loving it because now all the casualfags that thought Melee was Fox vs Fox only can eat poop. there precious bullpoop game is horribly unbalanced. Melee had plenty of charatcers that could compete (Fox, Falco, Marth, Samus, ICs, Falcon, Dr. Mario, Sheik). Sure some of those characters were much better then the others, but none were as broken as MK.

Brawl players are morons.

Quote from: Cornwad on August 10, 2009, 11:26:48 AM
I think the development team did a good job in making Meta Knight balanced. His final smash isn't very good, so it balances him out. It makes perfect sense.

Um, Cornwad, I'm going to be the only one here who will not respond with a negative response to you.

If you forgot, Final Smashes were added just for fun.

Tourneys aren't funny, so they don't have Final Smashes.

Meta Knight doesn't need his Final Smash, unless the otherwise is said.

There. :)

Have you guys not looked at any tournament results?  Many huge regional tournaments will have maybe 1 mk in the top 8!

Quote from: Depster on August 11, 2009, 09:07:03 AM
Have you guys not looked at any tournament results?  Many huge regional tournaments will have maybe 1 mk in the top 8!

Of course I know that.
Although, I think it is like a power vacuum of sorts.
People are on the anti-MK bandwagon and so will pick anyone over MK for now.

But I am pretty sure that in the next year or so, that number will rise.
Who gives a darn though, I don't go to OL tourneys.

Quote from: wiiboychris on August 10, 2009, 01:16:11 PM
Um, Cornwad, I'm going to be the only one here who will not respond with a negative response to you.

If you forgot, Final Smashes were added just for fun.

Tourneys aren't funny, so they don't have Final Smashes.

Meta Knight doesn't need his Final Smash, unless the otherwise is said.

There. :)

Funny is not an adjective form of fun, btw.

Quote from: HTA on August 11, 2009, 09:38:02 AM
Funny is not an adjective form of fun, btw.

Tourneys aren't fun.

There.

Correction: Tourneys aren't fun unless you win something.

I think he meant to say that Tourneys are serious business!

And I mean to say that tourney's not being fun is the most bullpoop, close minded, casualfag thing I have ever heard. Except maybe any of DBY's posts about items.

Quote from: JNFS2014 on August 10, 2009, 11:31:01 AM
I hope that's sarcasm, Cornwad.

It was, but I bet you Sakurai thought that way when balancing the characters.

Quote from: Depster on August 11, 2009, 09:07:03 AM
Have you guys not looked at any tournament results?  Many huge regional tournaments will have maybe 1 mk in the top 8!

Correct me if i'm wrong, but wan't the ban aimed for mid-level players that meta knight pretty much dominates in?

I think tournament players are morons.  As long as meta knight has the reputation for being best character more people are going to play as him cause they think they will win.  People just need to realize there's 34 other characters to choose from.  I almost guarantee mk will be nerfed in the next smash (if there is one).

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on August 16, 2009, 08:46:37 AM
I think tournament players are morons.  As long as meta knight has the reputation for being best character more people are going to play as him cause they think they will win.  People just need to realize there's 34 other characters to choose from.  I almost guarantee mk will be nerfed in the next smash (if there is one).

and all those 34 characters are statistically inferior to Metaknight. It's like betting on the favorite in a track race. Sure they don't win EVERY time, but it's the safest bet odds wise. And other than just personal preference, what reason is there to not choose him?

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on August 16, 2009, 08:46:37 AM
I think tournament players are morons.  As long as meta knight has the reputation for being best character more people are going to play as him cause they think they will win.  People just need to realize there's 34 other characters to choose from. I almost guarantee mk will be nerfed in the next smash (if there is one).

Bold is irrelevant and ignorant.

Italics = Why does he have a reputation for being the best dur hur?
Because he is the best, and people who pick him will do better than if they used someone else.

Underlined = And many people don't pick MK. But those that do pick MK destroy most other players.

In hindsight MK does not need to be banned as of now.
However, if it gets to the point where top 3 in a tourney are MK's, he needs to be banned. He is broken, just not broken enough. D:

At least he's not Ivan Ooze in Power Rangers X_X;;

Quote from: Hoss Delgado on August 10, 2009, 12:20:22 PM
yes Nayr tournys are now going to be at least 90% MK players (as if it wasn't like this already). I'm actually kinda loving it because now all the casualfags that thought Melee was Fox vs Fox only can eat s***. there precious bulls*** game is horribly unbalanced. Melee had plenty of charatcers that could compete (Fox, Falco, Marth, Samus, ICs, Falcon, Dr. Mario, Sheik). Sure some of those characters were much better then the others, but none were as broken as MK.

Brawl players are morons.

lol, samus and dr. mario can't really compete in melee. But you didn't mention peach and jiggs, and 2 of the top 3 melee players (imo) main these characters right now.

e: btw mk is stupid and i've wanted him gone for like a year now

yeah I was just naming characters off the top of my head, Jiggs and Peach just slipped.

Quote from: HTA! on August 16, 2009, 11:22:53 AM
Bold is irrelevant and ignorant.

Italics = Why does he have a reputation for being the best dur hur?
Because he is the best, and people who pick him will do better than if they used someone else.

Underlined = And many people don't pick MK. But those that do pick MK destroy most other players.

In hindsight MK does not need to be banned as of now.
However, if it gets to the point where top 3 in a tourney are MK's, he needs to be banned. He is broken, just not broken enough. D:

I see your point.  But for what reason did they have to not ban him?

Quote from: tollhouse2006 on August 17, 2009, 04:59:46 PM
I see your point.  But for what reason did they have to not ban him?

Obviously people still beat Meta-Knight more often than a banned character should be beaten, therefore he really shouldn't be banned until, like HTA said, the top ranked in tourneys are all MK.

Also, Echo has a point. Brawl is just....bleeegggh

Jiggs vs Peach a Genesis was epic by the way. (Mango v Armada)

So what exactly is the point of voting if in the end, the results get thrown out?