Bowser jr. assist tophy

[Nayrman]

What is Geno anyway.  He looks like a puppet to me.  He has to be one of the worst candidates I've ever seen.  He doesn't look cool and Sakurai considers him 3rd party so how can he possibly get in?

He's a spirit possesing the puppet. ANd he has rocket arms, lazer beams, and magic attacks...so what makes him a bad candidate?
If you want to be really technical...he's more like 1.5 party since he's owned by both Square and Nintendo

[tollhouse2006]

What is Geno anyway.  He looks like a puppet to me.  He has to be one of the worst candidates I've ever seen.  He doesn't look cool and Sakurai considers him 3rd party so how can he possibly get in?

He's a spirit possesing the puppet. ANd he has rocket arms, lazer beams, and magic attacks...so what makes him a bad candidate?
If you want to be really technical...he's more like 1.5 party since he's owned by both Square and Nintendo

The fact that the RPG wasn't developed by Nintendo makes him a third party and if he was in only one game why should he deserve to be in more than Bowser Jr.?

[Nayrman]

What is Geno anyway.  He looks like a puppet to me.  He has to be one of the worst candidates I've ever seen.  He doesn't look cool and Sakurai considers him 3rd party so how can he possibly get in?

He's a spirit possesing the puppet. ANd he has rocket arms, lazer beams, and magic attacks...so what makes him a bad candidate?
If you want to be really technical...he's more like 1.5 party since he's owned by both Square and Nintendo

The fact that the RPG wasn't developed by Nintendo makes him a third party and if he was in only one game why should he deserve to be in more than Bowser Jr.?

The IC's and Sheik were in one game and they got in...so that argument fails massively. It's nintendo's characters and Nintnedo's systems. Square just developed the game (how Sega made F-Zero GX or Square made Mario Hoops). If Nintendo had some part in the game, they own some part of the property. They might as well make him first party (since he will never be on anything other than Nintendo anyway) and Square can't use him unless Nintendo says okay, so they might as well let him in Smash should Nintendo want to (free advertisement for Square)

[Rius]

That looks like Knuckle Joe to me, and I watched it, like, 15 times.

On the subject at hand, debating this now is kind of pointless (heck, it was pointless since the games inception). However, just because Bowser Jr. is "new and hot" doesn't mean anything. With the exception of Lucario, all of the Pokemon playables are 1st gen, and their popularity hasn't wavered over the years; in case that was a bad example, Mr. Game & Watch, Pit, and Ice Climbers come back from the pre-Mega Man days, and they made it in. Sakurai doesn't care what the younger generation thinks about characters, since many aren't aware that there was even a remote possibility of Bowser Jr. being in, they just want the game. The older generation is aware of the character's and game's significance (for lack of a better word), so his planning is to cater to us.

After all of that, I have mixed feelings on both charaters. I've never played Super Mario RPG, but this Geno intrigues me; however, if he is indeed counted as 3rd party, and there is this notion of the "final 3rd party", I'd rather he's not in due to the obvious. Regarding Bowser Jr.: I hate him. He's nothing more than a poorly designed mix of a Koopaling and Prince/Baby Bowser (Who is so much cooler and powerful, BTW). I'd rather he just be an AT, or have Baby Bowser in instead.

[Neerb]

What is Geno anyway.  He looks like a puppet to me.  He has to be one of the worst candidates I've ever seen.  He doesn't look cool and Sakurai considers him 3rd party so how can he possibly get in?

He's a spirit possesing the puppet. ANd he has rocket arms, lazer beams, and magic attacks...so what makes him a bad candidate?
If you want to be really technical...he's more like 1.5 party since he's owned by both Square and Nintendo

The fact that the RPG wasn't developed by Nintendo makes him a third party and if he was in only one game why should he deserve to be in more than Bowser Jr.?

The IC's and Sheik were in one game and they got in...so that argument fails massively. It's nintendo's characters and Nintnedo's systems. Square just developed the game (how Sega made F-Zero GX or Square made Mario Hoops). If Nintendo had some part in the game, they own some part of the property. They might as well make him first party (since he will never be on anything other than Nintendo anyway) and Square can't use him unless Nintendo says okay, so they might as well let him in Smash should Nintendo want to (free advertisement for Square)

That's how I've always seen it.

[tollhouse2006]

What is Geno anyway.  He looks like a puppet to me.  He has to be one of the worst candidates I've ever seen.  He doesn't look cool and Sakurai considers him 3rd party so how can he possibly get in?

He's a spirit possesing the puppet. ANd he has rocket arms, lazer beams, and magic attacks...so what makes him a bad candidate?
If you want to be really technical...he's more like 1.5 party since he's owned by both Square and Nintendo

The fact that the RPG wasn't developed by Nintendo makes him a third party and if he was in only one game why should he deserve to be in more than Bowser Jr.?

The IC's and Sheik were in one game and they got in...so that argument fails massively. It's nintendo's characters and Nintnedo's systems. Square just developed the game (how Sega made F-Zero GX or Square made Mario Hoops). If Nintendo had some part in the game, they own some part of the property. They might as well make him first party (since he will never be on anything other than Nintendo anyway) and Square can't use him unless Nintendo says okay, so they might as well let him in Smash should Nintendo want to (free advertisement for Square)

Here's a history lesson.  The ice climbers are in because they were Sakurai's favorite game during his childhood and Ocarina of Time was a huge classic and was considered the greatest adventure game at the time so Melee focused on Oot and since Zelda was in there and shiek was involved in alot of Oot's plot there wasn't a reason for her not to be included.  I heard Sakurai considers Geno third party but Geno doesn't look like a fighter and he has no appeal to people who have never played the RPG.  Bowser Jr. however has been in every Mario game including the Mario spin offs like Mario Kart, Tennis, Strikers, Baseball, you name it in the last four years.  

[Cornwad]

What is Geno anyway.  He looks like a puppet to me.  He has to be one of the worst candidates I've ever seen.  He doesn't look cool and Sakurai considers him 3rd party so how can he possibly get in?

He's a spirit possesing the puppet. ANd he has rocket arms, lazer beams, and magic attacks...so what makes him a bad candidate?
If you want to be really technical...he's more like 1.5 party since he's owned by both Square and Nintendo

The fact that the RPG wasn't developed by Nintendo makes him a third party and if he was in only one game why should he deserve to be in more than Bowser Jr.?

The IC's and Sheik were in one game and they got in...so that argument fails massively. It's nintendo's characters and Nintnedo's systems. Square just developed the game (how Sega made F-Zero GX or Square made Mario Hoops). If Nintendo had some part in the game, they own some part of the property. They might as well make him first party (since he will never be on anything other than Nintendo anyway) and Square can't use him unless Nintendo says okay, so they might as well let him in Smash should Nintendo want to (free advertisement for Square)

Here's a history lesson.  The ice climbers are in because they were Sakurai's favorite game during his childhood and Ocarina of Time was a huge classic and was considered the greatest adventure game at the time so Melee focused on Oot and since Zelda was in there and shiek was involved in alot of Oot's plot there wasn't a reason for her not to be included.  I heard Sakurai considers Geno third party but Geno doesn't look like a fighter and he has no appeal to people who have never played the RPG.  Bowser Jr. however has been in every Mario game including the Mario spin offs like Mario Kart, Tennis, Strikers, Baseball, you name it in the last four years.  

Bower Jr. isn't a fighter at all. All he does is run away. If he ever does fight you he has a machine or big Bowser by his side.

[Nayrman]

What is Geno anyway.  He looks like a puppet to me.  He has to be one of the worst candidates I've ever seen.  He doesn't look cool and Sakurai considers him 3rd party so how can he possibly get in?

He's a spirit possesing the puppet. ANd he has rocket arms, lazer beams, and magic attacks...so what makes him a bad candidate?
If you want to be really technical...he's more like 1.5 party since he's owned by both Square and Nintendo

The fact that the RPG wasn't developed by Nintendo makes him a third party and if he was in only one game why should he deserve to be in more than Bowser Jr.?

The IC's and Sheik were in one game and they got in...so that argument fails massively. It's nintendo's characters and Nintnedo's systems. Square just developed the game (how Sega made F-Zero GX or Square made Mario Hoops). If Nintendo had some part in the game, they own some part of the property. They might as well make him first party (since he will never be on anything other than Nintendo anyway) and Square can't use him unless Nintendo says okay, so they might as well let him in Smash should Nintendo want to (free advertisement for Square)

Here's a history lesson.  The ice climbers are in because they were Sakurai's favorite game during his childhood and Ocarina of Time was a huge classic and was considered the greatest adventure game at the time so Melee focused on Oot and since Zelda was in there and shiek was involved in alot of Oot's plot there wasn't a reason for her not to be included.  I heard Sakurai considers Geno third party but Geno doesn't look like a fighter and he has no appeal to people who have never played the RPG.  Bowser Jr. however has been in every Mario game including the Mario spin offs like Mario Kart, Tennis, Strikers, Baseball, you name it in the last four years.  

Of course I know OoT was a huge classic. It's onyl considered one of the greatest games of all time (and first ot get a perfect rating by Famitsu). If you want to look at importance, Sheik has very little of it. Sheik was only Zelda's attempt to aid link while still be in hiding. It still would've been perfectly plausible to give Zelda a different Down B attack. Geno has no appeal? Then Pit, Game and Watch, IC's, quite a few FE characcters, Earthbound, and F-Zero characters should all be out then and we might as well make it hte Mario vs. Pokemon with guest stars Link and Sonic. And can someone please tell me what is so speical about Bjr? He hasn't done one origional thing since coming on board and basically has done exactly what Bowser has been doing for hte past 23 years...kidnap the princes...yet again....and again...and again.

[thunderhero4]

What is Geno anyway.  He looks like a puppet to me.  He has to be one of the worst candidates I've ever seen.  He doesn't look cool and Sakurai considers him 3rd party so how can he possibly get in?

He's a spirit possesing the puppet. ANd he has rocket arms, lazer beams, and magic attacks...so what makes him a bad candidate?
If you want to be really technical...he's more like 1.5 party since he's owned by both Square and Nintendo

The fact that the RPG wasn't developed by Nintendo makes him a third party and if he was in only one game why should he deserve to be in more than Bowser Jr.?

The IC's and Sheik were in one game and they got in...so that argument fails massively. It's nintendo's characters and Nintnedo's systems. Square just developed the game (how Sega made F-Zero GX or Square made Mario Hoops). If Nintendo had some part in the game, they own some part of the property. They might as well make him first party (since he will never be on anything other than Nintendo anyway) and Square can't use him unless Nintendo says okay, so they might as well let him in Smash should Nintendo want to (free advertisement for Square)

Here's a history lesson.  The ice climbers are in because they were Sakurai's favorite game during his childhood and Ocarina of Time was a huge classic and was considered the greatest adventure game at the time so Melee focused on Oot and since Zelda was in there and shiek was involved in alot of Oot's plot there wasn't a reason for her not to be included.  I heard Sakurai considers Geno third party but Geno doesn't look like a fighter and he has no appeal to people who have never played the RPG.  Bowser Jr. however has been in every Mario game including the Mario spin offs like Mario Kart, Tennis, Strikers, Baseball, you name it in the last four years.  

Bower Jr. isn't a fighter at all. All he does is run away. If he ever does fight you he has a machine or big Bowser by his side.

I feel the same fate that Waluigi got will hapen to Bowser Jr.....

[tollhouse2006]

What is Geno anyway.  He looks like a puppet to me.  He has to be one of the worst candidates I've ever seen.  He doesn't look cool and Sakurai considers him 3rd party so how can he possibly get in?

He's a spirit possesing the puppet. ANd he has rocket arms, lazer beams, and magic attacks...so what makes him a bad candidate?
If you want to be really technical...he's more like 1.5 party since he's owned by both Square and Nintendo

The fact that the RPG wasn't developed by Nintendo makes him a third party and if he was in only one game why should he deserve to be in more than Bowser Jr.?

The IC's and Sheik were in one game and they got in...so that argument fails massively. It's nintendo's characters and Nintnedo's systems. Square just developed the game (how Sega made F-Zero GX or Square made Mario Hoops). If Nintendo had some part in the game, they own some part of the property. They might as well make him first party (since he will never be on anything other than Nintendo anyway) and Square can't use him unless Nintendo says okay, so they might as well let him in Smash should Nintendo want to (free advertisement for Square)

Here's a history lesson.  The ice climbers are in because they were Sakurai's favorite game during his childhood and Ocarina of Time was a huge classic and was considered the greatest adventure game at the time so Melee focused on Oot and since Zelda was in there and shiek was involved in alot of Oot's plot there wasn't a reason for her not to be included.  I heard Sakurai considers Geno third party but Geno doesn't look like a fighter and he has no appeal to people who have never played the RPG.  Bowser Jr. however has been in every Mario game including the Mario spin offs like Mario Kart, Tennis, Strikers, Baseball, you name it in the last four years.  

Bower Jr. isn't a fighter at all. All he does is run away. If he ever does fight you he has a machine or big Bowser by his side.

Can you picture Bowser Jr. fighting?  It's not hard to imagine.

[Cornwad]

What is Geno anyway.  He looks like a puppet to me.  He has to be one of the worst candidates I've ever seen.  He doesn't look cool and Sakurai considers him 3rd party so how can he possibly get in?

He's a spirit possesing the puppet. ANd he has rocket arms, lazer beams, and magic attacks...so what makes him a bad candidate?
If you want to be really technical...he's more like 1.5 party since he's owned by both Square and Nintendo

The fact that the RPG wasn't developed by Nintendo makes him a third party and if he was in only one game why should he deserve to be in more than Bowser Jr.?

The IC's and Sheik were in one game and they got in...so that argument fails massively. It's nintendo's characters and Nintnedo's systems. Square just developed the game (how Sega made F-Zero GX or Square made Mario Hoops). If Nintendo had some part in the game, they own some part of the property. They might as well make him first party (since he will never be on anything other than Nintendo anyway) and Square can't use him unless Nintendo says okay, so they might as well let him in Smash should Nintendo want to (free advertisement for Square)

Here's a history lesson.  The ice climbers are in because they were Sakurai's favorite game during his childhood and Ocarina of Time was a huge classic and was considered the greatest adventure game at the time so Melee focused on Oot and since Zelda was in there and shiek was involved in alot of Oot's plot there wasn't a reason for her not to be included.  I heard Sakurai considers Geno third party but Geno doesn't look like a fighter and he has no appeal to people who have never played the RPG.  Bowser Jr. however has been in every Mario game including the Mario spin offs like Mario Kart, Tennis, Strikers, Baseball, you name it in the last four years.  

Bower Jr. isn't a fighter at all. All he does is run away. If he ever does fight you he has a machine or big Bowser by his side.

Can you picture Bowser Jr. fighting?  It's not hard to imagine.

But its much easier to imagine Geno fighting, because he actually fights in his games.

[tollhouse2006]

What is Geno anyway.  He looks like a puppet to me.  He has to be one of the worst candidates I've ever seen.  He doesn't look cool and Sakurai considers him 3rd party so how can he possibly get in?

He's a spirit possesing the puppet. ANd he has rocket arms, lazer beams, and magic attacks...so what makes him a bad candidate?
If you want to be really technical...he's more like 1.5 party since he's owned by both Square and Nintendo

The fact that the RPG wasn't developed by Nintendo makes him a third party and if he was in only one game why should he deserve to be in more than Bowser Jr.?

The IC's and Sheik were in one game and they got in...so that argument fails massively. It's nintendo's characters and Nintnedo's systems. Square just developed the game (how Sega made F-Zero GX or Square made Mario Hoops). If Nintendo had some part in the game, they own some part of the property. They might as well make him first party (since he will never be on anything other than Nintendo anyway) and Square can't use him unless Nintendo says okay, so they might as well let him in Smash should Nintendo want to (free advertisement for Square)

Here's a history lesson.  The ice climbers are in because they were Sakurai's favorite game during his childhood and Ocarina of Time was a huge classic and was considered the greatest adventure game at the time so Melee focused on Oot and since Zelda was in there and shiek was involved in alot of Oot's plot there wasn't a reason for her not to be included.  I heard Sakurai considers Geno third party but Geno doesn't look like a fighter and he has no appeal to people who have never played the RPG.  Bowser Jr. however has been in every Mario game including the Mario spin offs like Mario Kart, Tennis, Strikers, Baseball, you name it in the last four years.  

Of course I know OoT was a huge classic. It's onyl considered one of the greatest games of all time (and first ot get a perfect rating by Famitsu). If you want to look at importance, Sheik has very little of it. Sheik was only Zelda's attempt to aid link while still be in hiding. It still would've been perfectly plausible to give Zelda a different Down B attack. Geno has no appeal? Then Pit, Game and Watch, IC's, quite a few FE characcters, Earthbound, and F-Zero characters should all be out then and we might as well make it hte Mario vs. Pokemon with guest stars Link and Sonic. And can someone please tell me what is so speical about Bjr? He hasn't done one origional thing since coming on board and basically has done exactly what Bowser has been doing for hte past 23 years...kidnap the princes...yet again....and again...and again.

That's a horrible thing to say. 

[Nayrman]

What is Geno anyway.  He looks like a puppet to me.  He has to be one of the worst candidates I've ever seen.  He doesn't look cool and Sakurai considers him 3rd party so how can he possibly get in?

He's a spirit possesing the puppet. ANd he has rocket arms, lazer beams, and magic attacks...so what makes him a bad candidate?
If you want to be really technical...he's more like 1.5 party since he's owned by both Square and Nintendo

The fact that the RPG wasn't developed by Nintendo makes him a third party and if he was in only one game why should he deserve to be in more than Bowser Jr.?

The IC's and Sheik were in one game and they got in...so that argument fails massively. It's nintendo's characters and Nintnedo's systems. Square just developed the game (how Sega made F-Zero GX or Square made Mario Hoops). If Nintendo had some part in the game, they own some part of the property. They might as well make him first party (since he will never be on anything other than Nintendo anyway) and Square can't use him unless Nintendo says okay, so they might as well let him in Smash should Nintendo want to (free advertisement for Square)

Here's a history lesson.  The ice climbers are in because they were Sakurai's favorite game during his childhood and Ocarina of Time was a huge classic and was considered the greatest adventure game at the time so Melee focused on Oot and since Zelda was in there and shiek was involved in alot of Oot's plot there wasn't a reason for her not to be included.  I heard Sakurai considers Geno third party but Geno doesn't look like a fighter and he has no appeal to people who have never played the RPG.  Bowser Jr. however has been in every Mario game including the Mario spin offs like Mario Kart, Tennis, Strikers, Baseball, you name it in the last four years.  

Of course I know OoT was a huge classic. It's onyl considered one of the greatest games of all time (and first ot get a perfect rating by Famitsu). If you want to look at importance, Sheik has very little of it. Sheik was only Zelda's attempt to aid link while still be in hiding. It still would've been perfectly plausible to give Zelda a different Down B attack. Geno has no appeal? Then Pit, Game and Watch, IC's, quite a few FE characcters, Earthbound, and F-Zero characters should all be out then and we might as well make it hte Mario vs. Pokemon with guest stars Link and Sonic. And can someone please tell me what is so speical about Bjr? He hasn't done one origional thing since coming on board and basically has done exactly what Bowser has been doing for hte past 23 years...kidnap the princes...yet again....and again...and again.

That's a horrible thing to say. 

Well, you said a character has to appeal to people (or you said Geno has no appeal, which interprets as the previous statement), and if that's the case than it might as well be Mario vs Pokemon with guest stars Link and Sonic...because then at least half the characteres would be out then.

[Apollo]

What is Geno anyway.  He looks like a puppet to me.  He has to be one of the worst candidates I've ever seen.  He doesn't look cool and Sakurai considers him 3rd party so how can he possibly get in?

He's a spirit possesing the puppet. ANd he has rocket arms, lazer beams, and magic attacks...so what makes him a bad candidate?
If you want to be really technical...he's more like 1.5 party since he's owned by both Square and Nintendo

The fact that the RPG wasn't developed by Nintendo makes him a third party and if he was in only one game why should he deserve to be in more than Bowser Jr.?

The IC's and Sheik were in one game and they got in...so that argument fails massively. It's nintendo's characters and Nintnedo's systems. Square just developed the game (how Sega made F-Zero GX or Square made Mario Hoops). If Nintendo had some part in the game, they own some part of the property. They might as well make him first party (since he will never be on anything other than Nintendo anyway) and Square can't use him unless Nintendo says okay, so they might as well let him in Smash should Nintendo want to (free advertisement for Square)

Here's a history lesson.  The ice climbers are in because they were Sakurai's favorite game during his childhood and Ocarina of Time was a huge classic and was considered the greatest adventure game at the time so Melee focused on Oot and since Zelda was in there and shiek was involved in alot of Oot's plot there wasn't a reason for her not to be included.  I heard Sakurai considers Geno third party but Geno doesn't look like a fighter and he has no appeal to people who have never played the RPG.  Bowser Jr. however has been in every Mario game including the Mario spin offs like Mario Kart, Tennis, Strikers, Baseball, you name it in the last four years.  

Bower Jr. isn't a fighter at all. All he does is run away. If he ever does fight you he has a machine or big Bowser by his side.

Can you picture Bowser Jr. fighting?  It's not hard to imagine.

you actually did get to fight him in new super mario bros
remember that he would run at you and sometimes use his spinning withdraw power to come at you

[Nayrman]

you actually did get to fight him in new super mario bros
remember that he would run at you and sometimes use his spinning withdraw power to come at you

Yea...and all you did was jump on him or kick koopa shells at him...which rates his toughness at about hte level of an ordinary koopa or goomba X_X;;
I have yet to see him do anything unique or actually powerful worth of his "koopaness" or something. I mean, at least half hte koopa kids could spew fireballs and the other half had a unique ability...Bowser Jr. has yet to show anything.