Who, in your opinion, will get top tier in an "official" tier list?

[Java]

yoshi is much better than you think... trust me

That's what I kept saying about Pichu... :-\

I used to be WICKED with Pichu. USED to be, anyway. :'(

WII MISS U PICHU! :'(

I don't

[Allegretto]

yoshi is much better than you think... trust me

That's what I kept saying about Pichu... :-\

I used to be WICKED with Pichu. USED to be, anyway. :'(

WII MISS U PICHU! :'(

Yoshi is good if you know how to use him..but I hate him in brawl and usually refuse to lose to him, ask metroidhunter :p

[Jono2]

yoshi is much better than you think... trust me

No... he didn't.  trust me.

I mained Yoshi throughout Melee, and when I got Brawl, I couldn't play him anymore.

Yes, he's a completely different character now, but that doesn't mean he didn't get worse at the same time.

his buffs were outweighed by his nerfs.  just about everything they changed about him had a downside to it.

[Depster]

you aren't playing him right.

[Jono2]

you aren't playing him right.

look, there's a difference between him being a bad character and being among the worst characters in the game.

Yoshi is not a bad character.  he's just inconceivably worse than everyone else.

He gets outprioritized, his egg hop really didn't add much, his Dair does 15% less maximum damage and doesn't catch as well, his recovery is still horrible, made worse by the lack of air dodge momentum, some strategy was kicked out with the loss of wavedashing, his smashes are still laggy, his neutral B is now shorter and holds in enemies for less time, and he's inconceivably floatier this time around.

Loss of DJC kills ALOT of his strategy, and makes him fight in the air, where he becomes vulnerable pretty easily.  his grabs still suck, even though they're easier to hit, and he's inexplicably the only tether grab character without a tether recovery.

in Melee, he was the worst of the playable characters.  everyone below him was basically worthless.  I was able to play a kickass Yoshi in Melee.

Such can not be said for Brawl.


counter it.

[Jono2]

Oh, and also, he still can't jump out of his shield, and edge-cancelled eggs are no longer effective, due to eggs now having set trajectories.  his eggs are also much slower.  Egg roll cancels basically anything, yes, but why use it in the first place?

down B got a nice buff with the hit going up, but it still leaves you incredibly vulnerable.

upright stance makes him more vulnerable to projectiles.

Down & A is no longer as spammable, IIRC it doesn't do set knockback anymore (killing his combo potential even more), and they added moves that make him slower (the new tail whip A attack).

he's incredibly easy to footstool, and has little way of dealing with edgeguarders if having to resort to up B.

[Depster]

Oh, and also, he still can't jump out of his shield, and edge-cancelled eggs are no longer effective, due to eggs now having set trajectories.  his eggs are also much slower.  Egg roll cancels basically anything, yes, but why use it in the first place?

down B got a nice buff with the hit going up, but it still leaves you incredibly vulnerable.

upright stance makes him more vulnerable to projectiles.

Down & A is no longer as spammable, IIRC it doesn't do set knockback anymore (killing his combo potential even more), and they added moves that make him slower (the new tail whip A attack).

he's incredibly easy to footstool, and has little way of dealing with edgeguarders if having to resort to up B.

You apparently don't know how to use him.  I could show you how pros play yoshi, if you want me to.

[Mutilator7]

Oh, and also, he still can't jump out of his shield, and edge-cancelled eggs are no longer effective, due to eggs now having set trajectories.  his eggs are also much slower.  Egg roll cancels basically anything, yes, but why use it in the first place?

down B got a nice buff with the hit going up, but it still leaves you incredibly vulnerable.

upright stance makes him more vulnerable to projectiles.

Down & A is no longer as spammable, IIRC it doesn't do set knockback anymore (killing his combo potential even more), and they added moves that make him slower (the new tail whip A attack).

he's incredibly easy to footstool, and has little way of dealing with edgeguarders if having to resort to up B.

You apparently don't know how to use him.  I could show you how pros play yoshi, if you want me to.

I've seen good Yoshi players at a tournament before, he's good if you use him rite

[Jono2]

Oh, and also, he still can't jump out of his shield, and edge-cancelled eggs are no longer effective, due to eggs now having set trajectories.  his eggs are also much slower.  Egg roll cancels basically anything, yes, but why use it in the first place?

down B got a nice buff with the hit going up, but it still leaves you incredibly vulnerable.

upright stance makes him more vulnerable to projectiles.

Down & A is no longer as spammable, IIRC it doesn't do set knockback anymore (killing his combo potential even more), and they added moves that make him slower (the new tail whip A attack).

he's incredibly easy to footstool, and has little way of dealing with edgeguarders if having to resort to up B.

You apparently don't know how to use him.  I could show you how pros play yoshi, if you want me to.

a sentence isn't a comeback to my entire argument. :\

counter my argument.  he's not nearly the character he was in melee.  Saying "you don't know how to use him" doesn't change the fact that he can't jump out of his shield and that his "third jump" is ass. :\

[Shujinco2]

you aren't playing him right.

look, there's a difference between him being a bad character and being among the worst characters in the game.

Yoshi is not a bad character.  he's just inconceivably worse than everyone else.

He gets outprioritized, his egg hop really didn't add much, his Dair does 15% less maximum damage and doesn't catch as well, his recovery is still horrible, made worse by the lack of air dodge momentum, some strategy was kicked out with the loss of wavedashing, his smashes are still laggy, his neutral B is now shorter and holds in enemies for less time, and he's inconceivably floatier this time around.

Loss of DJC kills ALOT of his strategy, and makes him fight in the air, where he becomes vulnerable pretty easily.  his grabs still suck, even though they're easier to hit, and he's inexplicably the only tether grab character without a tether recovery.

in Melee, he was the worst of the playable characters.  everyone below him was basically worthless.  I was able to play a kickass Yoshi in Melee.

Such can not be said for Brawl.


counter it.

Hey, I was good with Pichu. >:( I wouldn't say he was worthless.

Other than that, yeah, your pretty right.

[Nayrman]

Oh, and also, he still can't jump out of his shield, and edge-cancelled eggs are no longer effective, due to eggs now having set trajectories.  his eggs are also much slower.  Egg roll cancels basically anything, yes, but why use it in the first place?

down B got a nice buff with the hit going up, but it still leaves you incredibly vulnerable.

upright stance makes him more vulnerable to projectiles.

Down & A is no longer as spammable, IIRC it doesn't do set knockback anymore (killing his combo potential even more), and they added moves that make him slower (the new tail whip A attack).

he's incredibly easy to footstool, and has little way of dealing with edgeguarders if having to resort to up B.

You apparently don't know how to use him.  I could show you how pros play yoshi, if you want me to.

Any character once you know how to use them is the problem. Any character is "good" in the right hands but that doesn't necessarily prove the point trying to be made...
The thing is that all the characters are going to be, without exception, compared to other characters. As a standalone character, Pichu isn't horrendous in terms of plain fighting ability, but when compared to the rest of Melee's cast, he becomes practically useless (especially compared to his clone-ey, Pikachu, whom was much more powerful and was able to retain his above average agility).
Same goes for Yoshi, when compared to other characters, there is hardly a reason to try to be good with him other than personal preferance. If you happen to like Yoshi and want to be good with him, more power to you! I'm happy you're willing to stick with a character than merely go for the "popular winners". However, don't really say that "such and such is better" when there is more than enough reason to prove otherwise...

[HTA!]

Wario will be in the Top 5, says I :o

[Jono2]

Meta Knight will be one of the top ones as well.

[Macawmoses]

Wario will be in the Top 5, says I :o

I'm guessing he will be shy of it, but I am not sure.

[HTA!]

Wario will be in the Top 5, says I :o

I'm guessing he will be shy of it, but I am not sure.

He's actually winning over MK's and Snakes in most major Tourneys :O