What Went Wrong With Sonic the Hedgehog

[Nayrman]

Yes, I've decided to write, an albeit brief, schpeal on what went wrong with the Sonic franchise as a whole. This was inspired by a youtube named Rijno who is "Let's Play"-ing both Sonic 06 and Sonic Adventure 2: Battle at the same time, and basically how he's very much enjoying SA2 while hating everything about Sonic 06. I went through and played a bit of both to try and figure out how a similar premise for both games and one end horribly while the other be considered one of the best of the series. So, I'm going to go through and figure out how to fix Sonic's spiral completely downward with his last few games (Sonic 06, Heroes, Rush Adventure...just to name a few).

VS.

Gripe #1: If It Ain't Broke, DON'T FIX IT
There is a reason Mario Sunshine, and the Megaman Battle Network games aren't remembered too fondly in terms of their series' histories. Not to say they were bad, but they did basically one of the most fundamental flaws you can do to a game, movie, what-have-you. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Everyone who played games at the times loved the old Sonic games. They were fun, simple, and did what they said out to do. The second you change the fundamental gameplay or mess with it to the point of unplayability (See: Sonic Heroes) then you've began the start of the end.

This is plainly seen with said Mario Sunshine example. Mario 64 was great, and Nintendo went and changed it for Mairo Sunshine adding the water pack, and the best part of the game were the pack-less levels. That really should show something. This fundamental change is apparent in some of the newer Sonic games: Teams of three? Vehicles in Shadow's parts? Boat Driving? What is this Sega?! Sonic = Running fast, and that's it. Luckily, Sega has kept this intact for most of the handheld games (See: Advance series, Rush). However, this needs to be changed back for the 3D games.

Now I shall gripe about Sonic Unleashed, going back to 2D to not worry about this. Although I won't complain for the fear of it turning into another Sonic 06, but I hope this isn't a trend. Sonic shouldn't be afraid of 3D. Sonic can work, we've seen it in SA2 and Secret Rings (well, that's 2.5D, but whatever). All Sega would have to do is make a game like Sonic/Shadow's levels in SA2 and it'd be great! Nintendo listen with Mario Sunshine and gave us Galaxy....exactly what we wanted. Sega should do the same.

The "When it Ain't Broke Don't Fix it" also applies to the story aspects of the game as well. Moderate variation is perfectly fine (The one thing Heroes actually did right). However, the game shouldn't stray too far from the "stop Robotnik (YES THAT'S HIS NAME) from taking over the world". We don't need long, fancy narratives or clever ideas in terms of story. I mean, take a look at Sonic 06...Time traveling? Save the Future? Methinks they watched a bit too much Marty McFly before making this game. It doesn't seem to be getting any better with Sonic now turning into Scully...er, a "warewolf". We don't need anything other than stopping Robotnik as motivation. And, on a personal gripe, get off Earth and put them back on Mobius...please?


Gripe #2: We Don't Need 30 Playable Characters
Okay, obviously I'm exaggerating to a certain extent, but honestly this is getting a little ridiculous with the amount of characters we have to deal with on seemingly a game by game basis. I shall list the number of characters we basically deal with after SA2 on console games. Heroes: 12, Shadow: 10, Sonic 06: 9. That is WAY too many. Not to say Sonic is the ONLY character we should ever play as, but in all honsty we don't want to play as "Annoying newbie #X" in the next game. Another cue from the Mario series. It's usually the main cast that only deserves to be playable, if anyone other than Mario does at all. This is one cause of annoyance in the Mario spin-offs for me. This is especially true of characters that are of particular annoyance since they don't play well to begin with, a.k.a. Amy, Big, anyone who can't run fast, etc. Basically, I'm going to list the characters who can be playable besides Sonic at this point, and why.

Tails: Sonic's sidekick, natural "easy" mode of the game, been since 2nd game, and genuinly not annoying when he isn't talking all the darn time. Not to mention he's fun for co-op at times.

Knuckles: The genuine "normal" mode for the series, plays differently due to being a tad slower, but gliding. Another character back in his old form who wasn't annoying and actually fast.

Shadow: Yes, I know, here come the "but Shadow sucks!" people. I think we can all agree that Shadow wasn't too bad in SA2, even cool to some. Yes, he's annoying as hell at times *emo*, but origionally he played exactly like Sonic, and could be a good playable character if he stays like Sonic, with some cool Chaos powers with him. No stupid vehicles or guns.

Special Exception, Blaze: This is mostly personal preference, but I liked Blaze. She was fast, but played differently from Sonic to make the game feel different. Also pretty much the only new character not to become annoying to play as. She can stay as far as I'm concerned, but I can understand if you don't want her.

There, a total of 4 or 5 characters to possibly play as. Simple as that. When you're in the double digit range and not a fighting/racing game, you're going way too far. The only thing I have to say is that they need to stay SIMILAR. All need to get from start to finish, run fast, and basically jump/spindash. It gets annoying to deal with everyone's "special" skills in a game. Run, jump, reach end, repeat.
  - This is way too many

Gripe #3: Quit Ruining the Character's Personalities
Well, this could be directly contributed to a certain dubbing company which also single handedly ruined one of the better anime's out there in addition to Sonic and anything not named Yugioh on the planet. The problem is that none of the characters (besides maybe Robotnik) act like they really should. Sonic is now a happy-go-lucky do gooder, Tails is now the nerd, Knuckles is the dumb clutz, and Shadow is emo...anyone see a problem with this? This was not how things were supposed to be. This was another change I really don't understand. Nothing was wrong with things they were before, so why change them? To give a perfect example on how Sonic is supposed to be; look at, oddly enough, Super Smash Bros. Brawl. Sonic was fast, didn't talk a lot, the finger wag, foot stomp of impatience, and was the "blue dude with 'tude" he was in the early 90's. This is the Sonic everyone liked.
- exactly as he should be

I will go into the other NPC's of some recent games as well, as they've been progressively frustrating to deal with since they're also a direct contribution to the annoyance of all the normal characters. The biggest culprit has to be Elise (a.k.a. please shut up and why are your legs orange?) from Sonic 06. Other examples include that racoon girl in Sonic Rush Adventure and Black Doom in Shadow the Hedghog. Their own personalities continue to mess up everything we thought about the characters we had before. So I guess this falls under the "too many characters" rule, but it also falls in here as well.


Gripe #4: Actually Try to Make the Game PLAYABLE
I don't know whether this comes from not understanding the sytem, or just being totally and completely lazy. But the last few Sonic games on consoles have been glitchy and unplayable beyond repair at points. Phazing through floors, walking on ceilings in loops, invisible walls, these aren't even issues in modern games, yet they continue to plague Sonic games. This also stems from the still awkard camera that Sega insists on continuing to use. Make it directly behind Sonic, and that should be fine, yet they always give the most awkward camera controls in the world that'd make Metal Gear Solid look wonderful. Honestly, Mario fixed these problems 12 years ago on the N64, they shouldn't even be PRESENT on today's games.

Another thing also comes from a few odd design choices as well. From the Crash Bandicoot "getting chased by big thingermabobber" levels, Sega takes these to a new low making it impossible to make decisions on how to move by making it impossible to see where you are going. Same goes for the loop sections, basically allowing you to not even have to touch anything to progress in the level. In fact, in one such level in Sonic 06 (can't remember which), you can go 20 seconds into the level, progress, and press NOTHING. The sad part is that these were always the most fun parts of the old games, yet Sega only got it right once in Secret Rings. Moving while in a loop shouldn't be too much to ask for, but apparently it is.


Final Gripe #5: Keep Things Consistant/No More Humans
The one thing I've never understood about the Sonic games is that it's always had a hard time keeping continuity in it's own series. Not Zelda hard time, but blatantly forgetting the old games altogether. I mean everything was cool, we were on Mobius, Robotnik was kidnapping animals and turning them to robots, and we run around the various parts of hte world and stop him. Somewhere along the line (I believe it was Sonic Adventure) we forgot those all happened, went to earth, and the origional plot sort of flew out the window. This wouldn't be a problem if there was an explination, but apparently we don't deserve one. Besides, I sort of liked the mystery of Robotnik being the only human on the planet and the whole world apparently barred of genuine human life. It was rather interested and gave us smarter players fun in making up our own reasons for this. To me it was genuinly amusing. I wish things would go back to the way they were because it seems every human not named Robotnik seems to be a stupid moron who can't tell the difference between Blue and Black/Red (SA2...ugh) or have any decent military force to actually stand up to Robotnik (I think the ONLY time we get real soldiers is Shadow). It's a game were you run really fast to the end of the level...it shouldn't be this hard to keep continuity.


Let's hope we go back to this at some point...it was fun.

[Macawmoses]

Holy poop that is a lot. The one thing I really disagree with is the playable thing, I think a game such as a certain RPG with a certain hedgehog deserve more characters. Everything else I agree with....for the most part.

[Nayrman]

Holy s*** that is a lot. The one thing I really disagree with is the playable thing, I think a game such as a certain RPG with a certain hedgehog deserve more characters. Everything else I agree with....for the most part.

Well, RPG's are different...and we've never gotten a Sonic RPG before...so we'll see how it turns out. If it works than great, if it doesn't I told you so

[thunderhero4]

I agree with some of what you said, and disagree with some.

I agree with the playable character fact. Leave the fasties, cut the slowies. But I think the more detailed characters (the Chaotix, who even had their own game, which was good) should get a spin-off series that goes at the pace of their "role". A Chaotix sequel would not only be a dream come true for me, but it would make the general series branch more, becoming even bigger (like what Luigi's Mansion did). I dont mind the other characters, but leave them with the role they had in Shadow the hedgehog, characters that help you acomplish things and give you info.

Humans are nothing to gripe about. I have absolutely NO problem with them. And i'm sorry Nayr, but it doesn't seem like thats going to change...Sega likes humans in the game because they make background characters easier to make.

I do disagree with the playable part, however. Every game in the series (even the 3D ones) were perfectly playable, and only a stubborn person would say that nobody could play them and enjoy them. I loved Sonic 06, and i know alot of people that do. Sure there were a few glitches, but they never really took away from my experience with the game. In my opinion, they are passable. I DO agree that there have been games better than Sonic 06 like Adventure 2, but I still very much enjoyed Sonic 06.

And everybody says Shadow was cooler in SA2B? Whenever i got a full combo, he would say "Im tha coolest 8) " I think he was cooler in Shadow and Sonic 06, he was more badass.

Nice piece of literature, Nayr! ;)

[Nayrman]

I agree with some of what you said, and disagree with some.

I agree with the playable character fact. Leave the fasties, cut the slowies. But I think the more detailed characters (the Chaotix, who even had their own game, which was good) should get a spin-off series that goes at the pace of their "role". A Chaotix sequel would not only be a dream come true for me, but it would make the general series branch more, becoming even bigger (like what Luigi's Mansion did). I dont mind the other characters, but leave them with the role they had in Shadow the hedgehog, characters that help you acomplish things and give you info.

Humans are nothing to gripe about. I have absolutely NO problem with them. And i'm sorry Nayr, but it doesn't seem like thats going to change...Sega likes humans in the game because they make background characters easier to make.

I do disagree with the playable part, however. Every game in the series (even the 3D ones) were perfectly playable, and only a stubborn person would say that nobody could play them and enjoy them. I loved Sonic 06, and i know alot of people that do. Sure there were a few glitches, but they never really took away from my experience with the game. In my opinion, they are passable. I DO agree that there have been games better than Sonic 06 like Adventure 2, but I still very much enjoyed Sonic 06.

And everybody says Shadow was cooler in SA2B? Whenever i got a full combo, he would say "Im tha coolest 8) " I think he was cooler in Shadow and Sonic 06, he was more badass.

Nice piece of literature, Nayr! ;)

Trust me when I say you are in the SEVERE MINORITY when you say Sonic 06 was playable and Shadow was better in StH and Sonic 06.
I still want to know what constitutes a really glitchy game for you, since Sonic 06 was the single glitchiest game I have EVER played. Watch Rijno's lets plays on the game, and he shows a BUNCH of them...like walking upsidedown on a loop, and floor phazing X_X;;;

[thunderhero4]

I agree with some of what you said, and disagree with some.

I agree with the playable character fact. Leave the fasties, cut the slowies. But I think the more detailed characters (the Chaotix, who even had their own game, which was good) should get a spin-off series that goes at the pace of their "role". A Chaotix sequel would not only be a dream come true for me, but it would make the general series branch more, becoming even bigger (like what Luigi's Mansion did). I dont mind the other characters, but leave them with the role they had in Shadow the hedgehog, characters that help you acomplish things and give you info.

Humans are nothing to gripe about. I have absolutely NO problem with them. And i'm sorry Nayr, but it doesn't seem like thats going to change...Sega likes humans in the game because they make background characters easier to make.

I do disagree with the playable part, however. Every game in the series (even the 3D ones) were perfectly playable, and only a stubborn person would say that nobody could play them and enjoy them. I loved Sonic 06, and i know alot of people that do. Sure there were a few glitches, but they never really took away from my experience with the game. In my opinion, they are passable. I DO agree that there have been games better than Sonic 06 like Adventure 2, but I still very much enjoyed Sonic 06.

And everybody says Shadow was cooler in SA2B? Whenever i got a full combo, he would say "Im tha coolest 8) " I think he was cooler in Shadow and Sonic 06, he was more badass.

Nice piece of literature, Nayr! ;)

Trust me when I say you are in the SEVERE MINORITY when you say Sonic 06 was playable and Shadow was better in StH and Sonic 06.
I still want to know what constitutes a really glitchy game for you, since Sonic 06 was the single glitchiest game I have EVER played. Watch Rijno's lets plays on the game, and he shows a BUNCH of them...like walking upsidedown on a loop, and floor phazing X_X;;;

Sonic 06 was more than playable. I beat the game twice with minor problems

And he wasn't better, just cooler as a character, thats all

And whoa! I gotta try that stuff out! Gimme a link to the vid :O

[JrDude]

I agree with most of that. But I like it when a lot of characters are playable. Sonic Heroes was a little much, but as long as they all don't go to the same place, it's OK, though I do think they don't need to add a new character to every game like they're doing, but more than the mains playable is perfectly fine.

[Nayrman]

I agree with some of what you said, and disagree with some.

I agree with the playable character fact. Leave the fasties, cut the slowies. But I think the more detailed characters (the Chaotix, who even had their own game, which was good) should get a spin-off series that goes at the pace of their "role". A Chaotix sequel would not only be a dream come true for me, but it would make the general series branch more, becoming even bigger (like what Luigi's Mansion did). I dont mind the other characters, but leave them with the role they had in Shadow the hedgehog, characters that help you acomplish things and give you info.

Humans are nothing to gripe about. I have absolutely NO problem with them. And i'm sorry Nayr, but it doesn't seem like thats going to change...Sega likes humans in the game because they make background characters easier to make.

I do disagree with the playable part, however. Every game in the series (even the 3D ones) were perfectly playable, and only a stubborn person would say that nobody could play them and enjoy them. I loved Sonic 06, and i know alot of people that do. Sure there were a few glitches, but they never really took away from my experience with the game. In my opinion, they are passable. I DO agree that there have been games better than Sonic 06 like Adventure 2, but I still very much enjoyed Sonic 06.

And everybody says Shadow was cooler in SA2B? Whenever i got a full combo, he would say "Im tha coolest 8) " I think he was cooler in Shadow and Sonic 06, he was more badass.

Nice piece of literature, Nayr! ;)

Trust me when I say you are in the SEVERE MINORITY when you say Sonic 06 was playable and Shadow was better in StH and Sonic 06.
I still want to know what constitutes a really glitchy game for you, since Sonic 06 was the single glitchiest game I have EVER played. Watch Rijno's lets plays on the game, and he shows a BUNCH of them...like walking upsidedown on a loop, and floor phazing X_X;;;

Sonic 06 was more than playable. I beat the game twice with minor problems

And he wasn't better, just cooler as a character, thats all

And whoa! I gotta try that stuff out! Gimme a link to the vid :O

He's not doing it on purpose...it's stuff that happen randomly destroying his playthrough. In other words...GLITCHES.
You must be one of the few...I experienced invisible walls every freakin five seconds in levels...and the LOADING TIMES. Dear lord MGS4 had quicker loading times!

[thunderhero4]

I agree with some of what you said, and disagree with some.

I agree with the playable character fact. Leave the fasties, cut the slowies. But I think the more detailed characters (the Chaotix, who even had their own game, which was good) should get a spin-off series that goes at the pace of their "role". A Chaotix sequel would not only be a dream come true for me, but it would make the general series branch more, becoming even bigger (like what Luigi's Mansion did). I dont mind the other characters, but leave them with the role they had in Shadow the hedgehog, characters that help you acomplish things and give you info.

Humans are nothing to gripe about. I have absolutely NO problem with them. And i'm sorry Nayr, but it doesn't seem like thats going to change...Sega likes humans in the game because they make background characters easier to make.

I do disagree with the playable part, however. Every game in the series (even the 3D ones) were perfectly playable, and only a stubborn person would say that nobody could play them and enjoy them. I loved Sonic 06, and i know alot of people that do. Sure there were a few glitches, but they never really took away from my experience with the game. In my opinion, they are passable. I DO agree that there have been games better than Sonic 06 like Adventure 2, but I still very much enjoyed Sonic 06.

And everybody says Shadow was cooler in SA2B? Whenever i got a full combo, he would say "Im tha coolest 8) " I think he was cooler in Shadow and Sonic 06, he was more badass.

Nice piece of literature, Nayr! ;)

Trust me when I say you are in the SEVERE MINORITY when you say Sonic 06 was playable and Shadow was better in StH and Sonic 06.
I still want to know what constitutes a really glitchy game for you, since Sonic 06 was the single glitchiest game I have EVER played. Watch Rijno's lets plays on the game, and he shows a BUNCH of them...like walking upsidedown on a loop, and floor phazing X_X;;;

Sonic 06 was more than playable. I beat the game twice with minor problems

And he wasn't better, just cooler as a character, thats all

And whoa! I gotta try that stuff out! Gimme a link to the vid :O

He's not doing it on purpose...it's stuff that happen randomly destroying his playthrough. In other words...GLITCHES.
You must be one of the few...I experienced invisible walls every freakin five seconds in levels...and the LOADING TIMES. Dear lord MGS4 had quicker loading times!

Well i'm glad to be one of the few :)

And do you agree with my idea of spin-off games with lesser known or used characters? (particularly a sequel to Knuckles Chaotix)

[Nayrman]

I agree with some of what you said, and disagree with some.

I agree with the playable character fact. Leave the fasties, cut the slowies. But I think the more detailed characters (the Chaotix, who even had their own game, which was good) should get a spin-off series that goes at the pace of their "role". A Chaotix sequel would not only be a dream come true for me, but it would make the general series branch more, becoming even bigger (like what Luigi's Mansion did). I dont mind the other characters, but leave them with the role they had in Shadow the hedgehog, characters that help you acomplish things and give you info.

Humans are nothing to gripe about. I have absolutely NO problem with them. And i'm sorry Nayr, but it doesn't seem like thats going to change...Sega likes humans in the game because they make background characters easier to make.

I do disagree with the playable part, however. Every game in the series (even the 3D ones) were perfectly playable, and only a stubborn person would say that nobody could play them and enjoy them. I loved Sonic 06, and i know alot of people that do. Sure there were a few glitches, but they never really took away from my experience with the game. In my opinion, they are passable. I DO agree that there have been games better than Sonic 06 like Adventure 2, but I still very much enjoyed Sonic 06.

And everybody says Shadow was cooler in SA2B? Whenever i got a full combo, he would say "Im tha coolest 8) " I think he was cooler in Shadow and Sonic 06, he was more badass.

Nice piece of literature, Nayr! ;)

Trust me when I say you are in the SEVERE MINORITY when you say Sonic 06 was playable and Shadow was better in StH and Sonic 06.
I still want to know what constitutes a really glitchy game for you, since Sonic 06 was the single glitchiest game I have EVER played. Watch Rijno's lets plays on the game, and he shows a BUNCH of them...like walking upsidedown on a loop, and floor phazing X_X;;;

Sonic 06 was more than playable. I beat the game twice with minor problems

And he wasn't better, just cooler as a character, thats all

And whoa! I gotta try that stuff out! Gimme a link to the vid :O

He's not doing it on purpose...it's stuff that happen randomly destroying his playthrough. In other words...GLITCHES.
You must be one of the few...I experienced invisible walls every freakin five seconds in levels...and the LOADING TIMES. Dear lord MGS4 had quicker loading times!

Well i'm glad to be one of the few :)

And do you agree with my idea of spin-off games with lesser known or used characters? (particularly a sequel to Knuckles Chaotix)

I would if they could do normal Sonic games right again...
I mean if Sonic games have gotten this bad I can't imagine how bad spin-offs must be.

[thunderhero4]

I agree with some of what you said, and disagree with some.

I agree with the playable character fact. Leave the fasties, cut the slowies. But I think the more detailed characters (the Chaotix, who even had their own game, which was good) should get a spin-off series that goes at the pace of their "role". A Chaotix sequel would not only be a dream come true for me, but it would make the general series branch more, becoming even bigger (like what Luigi's Mansion did). I dont mind the other characters, but leave them with the role they had in Shadow the hedgehog, characters that help you acomplish things and give you info.

Humans are nothing to gripe about. I have absolutely NO problem with them. And i'm sorry Nayr, but it doesn't seem like thats going to change...Sega likes humans in the game because they make background characters easier to make.

I do disagree with the playable part, however. Every game in the series (even the 3D ones) were perfectly playable, and only a stubborn person would say that nobody could play them and enjoy them. I loved Sonic 06, and i know alot of people that do. Sure there were a few glitches, but they never really took away from my experience with the game. In my opinion, they are passable. I DO agree that there have been games better than Sonic 06 like Adventure 2, but I still very much enjoyed Sonic 06.

And everybody says Shadow was cooler in SA2B? Whenever i got a full combo, he would say "Im tha coolest 8) " I think he was cooler in Shadow and Sonic 06, he was more badass.

Nice piece of literature, Nayr! ;)

Trust me when I say you are in the SEVERE MINORITY when you say Sonic 06 was playable and Shadow was better in StH and Sonic 06.
I still want to know what constitutes a really glitchy game for you, since Sonic 06 was the single glitchiest game I have EVER played. Watch Rijno's lets plays on the game, and he shows a BUNCH of them...like walking upsidedown on a loop, and floor phazing X_X;;;

Sonic 06 was more than playable. I beat the game twice with minor problems

And he wasn't better, just cooler as a character, thats all

And whoa! I gotta try that stuff out! Gimme a link to the vid :O

He's not doing it on purpose...it's stuff that happen randomly destroying his playthrough. In other words...GLITCHES.
You must be one of the few...I experienced invisible walls every freakin five seconds in levels...and the LOADING TIMES. Dear lord MGS4 had quicker loading times!

Well i'm glad to be one of the few :)

And do you agree with my idea of spin-off games with lesser known or used characters? (particularly a sequel to Knuckles Chaotix)

I would if they could do normal Sonic games right again...
I mean if Sonic games have gotten this bad I can't imagine how bad spin-offs must be.

Isn't the RPG game a spinoff?

[Triforce_Luigi]

I agree with most of this. Especially the Camera thing. Honestly, in Sonic 06, in Shadow's levels, there is a part with falling towers while your on a glider vehicle. You'd think the camera would allow you to see said falling towers. Doesn't turn out that way. In the end, the random falling tower that you can't see ends up crushing you.

[PsychoYoshi]

hi

Also, no. Sonic in Brawl sucked.

[Nayrman]

Great comic Psycho XD
Well, you have to admit he was better than Sonic 06
"Just smile!" "We're friends right?"
Dear god I just wanted to puke at those lines...I mean how corny and pitiful can writing get?

[Tupin]

Sega. I don't care about story. I don't care about playing as any other characters other than Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, and MAYBE Shadow. I don't care about any villains other than Eggman.

I just want to run very fast to either very catchy music or so-bad-it's-good pop like Sonic Boom.

If you absolutely MUST make it 3D, at least hire someone from an outside company to make a decent camera.