Dissapointed in Miyamoto

Transient Link · March 14, 2009, 05:43:00 PM

Pardon my language here, but he is practically letting nintendo rape the zelda series! According to Miyamoto twilight princess was "the last zelda as we know it" and that they will be focusing on the casual gamer. All I say is BOOO and shame shame to both Miyamoto, my personal idol, and nintendo, who I loved so much as a child. Zelda is one of the few series left for nintendo that I enjoy, and if they ruin this series....I will have lost all hope for nintendo. If this turns out to be true I intend to hold a funeral for the LoZ the day before its release date so that we could say goodbye to the real LoZ, before this abomination comes upon us. Feel free to join in.

Macawmoses · March 14, 2009, 06:43:59 PM

Casual or not, Zelda will live on, and it'll do well.

I just think this means a shift to a more "Phantom Hourglass" style. Make it accessible. Make it have incentive for purchase. Advertise.

This is what I see it meaning. Push Zelda to everyone, just like Mario.

Transient Link · March 14, 2009, 06:48:07 PM

Quote from: Lord Layton on March 14, 2009, 06:43:59 PM
Casual or not, Zelda will live on, and it'll do well.

I just think this means a shift to a more "Phantom Hourglass" style. Make it accessible. Make it have incentive for purchase. Advertise.

This is what I see it meaning. Push Zelda to everyone, just like Mario.

Well to be frank...PH was average at best. Like its second to last in my rankings of Zelda games, all good, but its at the bottom, Zelda II is the only one thats below it. I mean PH had touch controls, but it got tedious at times, they didnt go as deep as they could have with the ship aspect, the world was too small, and the story really needed some tweaks. It was alright, but I wouldnt call it amazing by any means.

Macawmoses · March 14, 2009, 06:55:22 PM

I'm not saying it was, I'm simply suggesting that the type of marketing, the niche it fills, is what Miyamoto is referencing. Not that LoZ will end in some weird way, or turn into Star Fox, but the way promotion is handled. Ending your third best series, or even drastically changing it, can have negative repercussions.

Transient Link · March 14, 2009, 06:58:11 PM

Quote from: Lord Layton on March 14, 2009, 06:55:22 PM
I'm not saying it was, I'm simply suggesting that the type of marketing, the niche it fills, is what Miyamoto is referencing. Not that LoZ will end in some weird way, or turn into Star Fox, but the way promotion is handled. Ending your third best series, or even drastically changing it, can have negative repercussions.

Yeah, sorry I didnt close my argument, I meant to say all that because it shows how bad going for the casual gamer ruins zelda for hardcore gamers.

Macawmoses · March 14, 2009, 07:07:59 PM

I don't think the shift will be full bore casual, just making the series accessible for the casual fans. More appealing design, easier controls, and a bit more even set of levels (ramping up difficulty, rather than just intense levels and easier ones). Zelda is too versatile to just be killed off by one game, too.

Transient Link · March 14, 2009, 07:10:56 PM

Quote from: Lord Layton on March 14, 2009, 07:07:59 PM
I don't think the shift will be full bore casual, just making the series accessible for the casual fans. More appealing design, easier controls, and a bit more even set of levels (ramping up difficulty, rather than just intense levels and easier ones). Zelda is too versatile to just be killed off by one game, too.

Yes, however since Miyamoto said that TP was the last zelda as we knew it, where does it go? To the future? I wouldnt mind that, but I would half hate it. I enjoy Zelda with real swords and shields, not Guns and plasma shields. Or if they completely mess up the interface of zelda games, thats even worse. They were just starting to perfect sword fighting with the Hidden Scrolls in TP, and now they wanna change up the controls to make it "Easier" that just isnt right.

Rayquarian · March 17, 2009, 05:50:39 PM

You're jumping to conclusions. Miyamoto was more than likely referring to the photo-realistic style of Twilight Princess. The game may have more of a 'cartoon' feeling to represent the transition from traditional continental gameplay to the island-hopping style of Wind Waker.

Communist Daughter · March 17, 2009, 09:48:56 PM

I remember being worried when I heard this. But hopefully it will still keep the basic elements of what made Zelda, well, Zelda. Otherwise we'd just have a different game with Link in it.

Neerb · March 18, 2009, 01:53:57 PM

You'll see, it'll be something so small it wasn't even worth announcing.

Miyamoto: "Twilight Princess will be the last Zelda game of its kind; from now on, Link will no longer turn into a wolf!" :P

Nayrman · March 18, 2009, 05:40:03 PM

What do you mean make it more marketable and better for purchase Layton?
Wind Waker sold over 2 MILLION copies. That's beyond successful for most games, and that was an average sales for Zelda games. Sales aren't an issue, especially when Mario and the Wii name is selling in record numbers. I really don't see the need to make Zelda more "accessible", since it was plenty accessible to begin with. Is it meant for people new to gaming? Of course not, that wasn't the point of the series from ALttP onwards. It's meant to be more challenging, and more complex than the average game. In fact that was the point of the original Zelda. To be more complex and expand what gaming can do.
The sad part is that Zelda is one of the few "gateway" games Layton and I talked about in other threads. The controls and general idea are simple enough somewhat young kids can understand, but the temples and gameplay are complex enough that it requires getting better and spending time with the game to be good at it. Zelda is a perfect "gateway" game that Nintendo actually needs to last, and making it more for the casual would ruin it for me.

Transient Link · March 19, 2009, 03:51:31 PM

Quote from: Nayrman on March 18, 2009, 05:40:03 PM
What do you mean make it more marketable and better for purchase Layton?
Wind Waker sold over 2 MILLION copies. That's beyond successful for most games, and that was an average sales for Zelda games. Sales aren't an issue, especially when Mario and the Wii name is selling in record numbers. I really don't see the need to make Zelda more "accessible", since it was plenty accessible to begin with. Is it meant for people new to gaming? Of course not, that wasn't the point of the series from ALttP onwards. It's meant to be more challenging, and more complex than the average game. In fact that was the point of the original Zelda. To be more complex and expand what gaming can do.
The sad part is that Zelda is one of the few "gateway" games Layton and I talked about in other threads. The controls and general idea are simple enough somewhat young kids can understand, but the temples and gameplay are complex enough that it requires getting better and spending time with the game to be good at it. Zelda is a perfect "gateway" game that Nintendo actually needs to last, and making it more for the casual would ruin it for me.

Exactly, I could not say it better myself. I do hope that Miyamoto does not change it overmuch.

Macawmoses · March 21, 2009, 03:57:15 PM

I don't think you can argue with the outrage that numerous Zelda purists held when WW initially released. They bickered and bickered, causing all sorts of issues.

Keep in mind, Zelda is one of few series actually depreciating right now - while Pokemon and Mario continue to steam-roll, and Metroid showing uncontrollable growth (with new series such as Wii, Pikmin, Animal Crossing, etc doing the same). Thus, I feel we're going to see revisions in the Zelda series. More women characters, for instance. Slightly less confusing controls. All sorts of things designed to spur on growth.

Transient Link · March 21, 2009, 03:59:12 PM

Quote from: Lord Layton on March 21, 2009, 03:57:15 PM
I don't think you can argue with the outrage that numerous Zelda purists held when WW initially released. They bickered and bickered, causing all sorts of issues.

Keep in mind, Zelda is one of few series actually depreciating right now - while Pokemon and Mario continue to steam-roll, and Metroid showing uncontrollable growth (with new series such as Wii, Pikmin, Animal Crossing, etc doing the same). Thus, I feel we're going to see revisions in the Zelda series. More women characters, for instance. Slightly less confusing controls. All sorts of things designed to spur on growth.

Yes I can see that, and I am more than fine with another WW style graphics game. I dont care much for the graphics in Zelda games. I actually like the N64 graphics best, even more than TPs.

Nayrman · March 21, 2009, 04:03:07 PM

Quote from: Lord Layton on March 21, 2009, 03:57:15 PM
I don't think you can argue with the outrage that numerous Zelda purists held when WW initially released. They bickered and bickered, causing all sorts of issues.

Keep in mind, Zelda is one of few series actually depreciating right now - while Pokemon and Mario continue to steam-roll, and Metroid showing uncontrollable growth (with new series such as Wii, Pikmin, Animal Crossing, etc doing the same). Thus, I feel we're going to see revisions in the Zelda series. More women characters, for instance. Slightly less confusing controls. All sorts of things designed to spur on growth.

The only reason Metroid has growth is because Nintendo abandoned it for 8 years, and gave it to an american developer. NOJ does very little with the franchise. Miyamoto supervised the first game, and that was pretty much it.

Mario and Pokemon steamroll because they're marketed towards kids, and marketed BIG. The only thing I agree that needs to be revised is the story. Gameplay and controls should stay similar enough to keep the core group of zelda fans pleased. As I said earlier in our Wii board postings, Nintendo needs to have those gateway games to make the casuals into "true" gamers in order to keep themselves going instead of this one shot deal with the casuals. Zelda and Metroid are pretty much their only gateway franchises left, considering everything else has already been revised and simplified. In terms of gameplay and how it works, Zelda needs to stay the same in terms of the core design (dungeon exploration and puzzle solving).

Oh, and most of the WW outrage was just after the initial Gamecube trailer of Link and Ganondorf fighting with realistic graphics, they suddenly went to Cel Shading without warning. Most of us got over it once we saw the game in motion though X_X:;