This thread is for debating clones

[Thirdkoopa]

THIS IS ROB'S LOGIC; NOT MINE.

Which one of these would you consider "Clones" of rob's logic?

SSB:
Mario/Luigi

SSBM:
Mario/Luigi/Dr. Mario
Pikachu/Pichu
Capt. Falcon/Ganondorf
Fox/Falco
Marth/Roy
Link/Young Link

SSBB:
Mario/Luigi
Capt. Falcon/Ganondorf
Fox/Falco/Wolf
Marth/Ike
Link/Toon Link
Ness/Lucas

[JrDude]

Might as well add Meta Knight with Marth/Ike since they all use swords.
or maybe Sonic since they all have Blue hair.
But seriously, they are obviously not clones.

Everyone else is a clone, with Luigi being a slight exception.

[Nayrman]

Doc Mario and Young Link were blatant clones, glad they're gone.

Falco and Wolf have enough changed to where they play differently, but I would at least prefer ONE special move to be completely different and NO FUCKING LANDMASTERS. Otherwise I'm willing to let them pass (although I still think Wolf was a complete waste of a spot for a far more deserving character, instead of a rival character from a series that has been stagnating as of late).

Luigi is no longer a clone. Two different special moves, vast majority of normal attacks are different, different final smash. So Luigi is safe.

Toon Link is pretty clone-y in my opinion. Since they went with WW Link, I really wished they would've changed a couple of special moves to reflect that game (Deku Leaf, etc.). But since this is Sakurai and Nintendo, two of the laziest gits nowadays, they spent more time on the music than the actual characters.

Lucas's specials play differently, so I wonder why they just DIDN'T GIVE HIM DIFFERENT MOVES. again, laziness.

Ganondorf needs to be UNCLONED NOW. There is no need for him to have similar smashes and special moves to Captain Falcon of all people.



My requirements for not being a clone:
For characters from completely different series (a.k.a. Falcon and Ganondorf)
No special moves, no final smashes, and no moves besides basic air or "tap A" attacks can be similar. Makes no intercourse ing sense.

From the same series or similar character (Mario/Luigi, Fox/Falco, etc.)
At the very least one special move must be different (and yes, a blaster is still a intercourse ing blaster, and a reflector is still a reflector, even if Falco is kicking it). Although I would prefer two to compensate for different play styles.
No same final smashes. USE SOME FREAKING CREATIVITY YOU LAZY BASTARDS!
Different smashes. Some similar arial or tilt attacks are okay if they're similar characters (Mario/Luigi obviously comes to mind).

[Zero]

Marth and Ike? I lol'd.

Aside from a similar down special and a completely different yet charged neutral special they don't have much in common as far as movesets go.

Really the only "clones" I find acceptable are Fox/Falco and Mario/Luigi.

[Neerb]

Marth=/=Ike. Not by a long shot. In fact, that's the first I've ever heard of that ridiculous idea.

Also, thanks to Melee introducing the Luigification process, as well as Brawl introducing Final Smashes and Mario's FLUDD, Luigi of Brawl is not a Mario clone.

Everyone else there is definitely a clone, although almost everyone in Brawl has at least been Luigified. I'm actually content with these Luigified clones if they could just give Falco and Wolf different FSs and make Ganondorf have any relevance to his games within his B-moveset at all. I mean, they could AT LEAST make his slow-charging punch a slow-charging sword slash or something like that. Although, while I am tolerant, I would like to see them eventually decloned in the future, along with NO NEW CLONES.

[Shujinco2]

Lucas's specials play differently, so I wonder why they just DIDN'T GIVE HIM DIFFERENT MOVES. again, laziness.

Lucas plays alot like the way I've always wanted Ness to play as. So I don't particularly care.

[tollhouse2006]

Define the term smash bros clone.  the marth and ike thing threw me off.

[Neerb]

Define the term smash bros clone.  the marth and ike thing threw me off.

A "clone" is a character whose Special moveset (and possibly even Standard moveset) is almost exactly the same as someone else's, albeit with slight visual and practical differences. "Luigification" is the process of slowly de-cloning someone by giving them a completely different standard moveset and a greater difference in Special moveset (possibly even a completely different Special move) from game to game; said clones are called "Luigified" clones, named after the original clone Luigi, who was "Luigified" in Melee, and, as of Brawl, is now "officially" uncloned thanks to having at least half of his Special moveset different than Mario's, as well as a completely different Standard moveset. On the following list of clones, the italicized names are the Luigified ones:

SSB:
Mario/Luigi

SSBM:
Mario/Luigi/Dr. Mario
Pikachu/Pichu
Capt. Falcon/Ganondorf
Fox/Falco
Marth/Roy
Link/Young Link

SSBB:
Capt. Falcon/Ganondorf
Fox/Falco/Wolf
Link/Toon Link
Ness/Lucas

Note that just because someone is not EXACTLY THE SAME does not mean they are not a clone; this a Smash Bros term created by fans, not a scientific term. In fact, on that note, it perhaps even is closer to the real life term, since a real clone may have the same genetic code, but may still have differences due to life experiences. Basically, you have the same special blueprints, and it's a clone, regardless of whether or not they seem copypasted.

[tollhouse2006]

A "clone" is a character whose Special moveset (and possibly even Standard moveset) is almost exactly the same as someone else's, albeit with slight visual and practical differences. "Luigification" is the process of slowly de-cloning someone by giving them a completely different standard moveset and a greater difference in Special moveset (possibly even a completely different Special move) from game to game; said clones are called "Luigified" clones, named after the original clone Luigi, who was "Luigified" in Melee, and, as of Brawl, is now "officially" uncloned thanks to having at least half of his Special moveset different than Mario's, as well as a completely different Standard moveset. On the following list of clones, the italicized names are the Luigified ones:

SSB:
Mario/Luigi

SSBM:
Mario/Luigi/Dr. Mario
Pikachu/Pichu
Capt. Falcon/Ganondorf
Fox/Falco
Marth/Roy
Link/Young Link

SSBB:
Capt. Falcon/Ganondorf
Fox/Falco/Wolf
Link/Toon Link
Ness/Lucas

Note that just because someone is not EXACTLY THE SAME does not mean they are not a clone; this a Smash Bros term created by fans, not a scientific term. In fact, on that note, it perhaps even is closer to the real life term, since a real clone may have the same genetic code, but may still have differences due to life experiences. Basically, you have the same special blueprints, and it's a clone, regardless of whether or not they seem copypasted.

that was directed toward who ever said ike and marth are clones, but thanks for posting this anyway.  others can learn from it

[tibar21]

the way i see it the only clones in brawl are tink/link, falco/fox, falcon/ganon, luigi/mario, i don't think i'm forgeting anyting

[Neerb]

the way i see it the only clones in brawl are tink/link, falco/fox, falcon/ganon, luigi/mario, i don't think i'm forgeting anyting

Well, you forgot Fox/Wolf and Ness/Lucas, and if you think "they're too different to be clones," perhaps you should double check your list, because Mario/Luigi are far more different from each other than either of the previous pars.

[tibar21]

ness/lucas i'll agree, but wolf and fox just have a couple specials in common. i don't think wolf is a clone

[Neerb]

ness/lucas i'll agree, but wolf and fox just have a couple specials in common. i don't think wolf is a clone

A couple? Try all. Granted, there are little differences like color, speed, and in the Side Special's case, angle, but like I pointed out earlier, that matters not; they are clearly clones. And once again, they're at the very least more similar than Mario/Luigi.

[tollhouse2006]

I cud agree with that Mario and Luigi are alot different now.  The clone thing really isnt a big deal anymore.  Look at Falco, he used to mimic everything that Fox did aside from the blaster.  Now look at him. 

Ganondorf and Captain Falcon are the most similar since all their moves are practically the same but just have different effects.  In my opinion.  Ganondork and Falcon are true clones since they are closer related than all the others are.

Lucas and Ness are similar but have moves that have different effects and strategy.  Lucas and Ness's aerials, up and down smashes are all very different. 

Wolf has different aerials than Fox and Falco but has similar special moves.  All of Wolf's smashes are different.  The only thing the Starfox characters have in common is their specials and also Fox and Falco have the same up and down smash and down and forward tilt.

Marth and Ike
Umm they both have counter?  Um kay.  That's one move.  They're not clones. Period

[JrDude]

Marth and Ike
Umm they both have counter?  Um kay.  That's one move.  They're not clones. Period

Don't forget, they both have blue hair. That is important.