NSFCD

Wow, a rant and it's only my first day -_-

I find it saddening that people don't understand the problem with Ike.

I'm going to assume that people that use Ike know how Roy was like in Melee, because all Ike is is a demented form of Roy.

Let's start out with Roy in Melee.

Roy came from an epic game series know as Fire Emblem, which you all know. Roy, however, unlike Marth, sucks ass. Not only is he extremely overpowered, he's too quick for his overall power. He is an EXTREMELY cheap character to use, seeing as if you try to counter Roy with a fast character, he'll blow you away, and if you try to counter Roy with a powerful character, Roy can simply zoom past you, and then blow you away. It was almost impossible to beat Roy unless you had a stroke of luck with items, which most people turn off anyway. The only way I've ever beaten Roy without any sort of luck was with Pichu. And they removed him from Brawl.

Now to Ike.

On March 9th, Super Smash Brothers Brawl came out, and one of the starting characters was Ike. In seeing that, and also in reading his section on the Brawl website, I knew he was a half-clone of Roy. Yes, indeed he does move SLOWER, but not slow enough. And also seeing that they replaced Roy's Side-B with a move that can send Ike more than half-way across Final Destination is just as bad as being fast and powerful. He, I believe is actually MORE Powerful than Roy. And the fact that they kept the idea from Roy where if you touch a certain point of his sword, you're a goner, is even worse with someone like Ike.

I can somewhat give Nintendo credit for TRYING to fix Roy, seeing as if they completely changed Roy it would piss too many people off, they simply got rid of Roy and put Ike in, thus somewhat fixing the problem. But not enough Nintendo, not enough. He IS beatable, if someone who just got the game and has never played a fighting game before is playing as him, yes, he is beatable. Otherwise, I can only see MAYBE Pit beating a semi-experienced Ike.

That's my rant, now, I'll just put my flame shield up and wait a little while...

*opens mouth*

*closes mouth*

Wow. ROY, blowing you away? In Melee, Roy wasn't as great as you say. Roy is often considered an inferior clone of Marth. His power isn't that much, unless you use a fully charged Flare Blade or Smash. His standard attacks are only slightly more powerful than Marth's. He isn't fast or strong enough to blow Fox away with a single blow. Unless that blow happens to be Flare Blade at full power, or his Foward Smash on a weakened foe. His speed is decent, but he isn't nearly as fast as Fox, or even Marth. That puts him at a disadvantage, does it not?

Let's examine some of his other glaring weaknesses. No projectile, not too bad, but it might be problematic in some cases. He's a bit over-reliant on his Forward Smash, his only effective kill move save for Flare Blade. His recovery is rather short, though manageable. He's also rather easy to juggle, with a semi-fast falling speed, so knocking him into the air makes him an easy target.

As you can see, Roy isn't the perfect fighter you make him out to be.

Now for Ike.

Ike possesses great power, as you said. His long sword grants him amazing range. His Side B, Quick Draw, can be used to get around quickly, and is also versatile. His Back Air and Forward Smash are both powerful with a wide range. He has two spikes, and he can KO at percentages as low as 50. His horizontal recovery is amazing with Quick Draw and Aether. His Up B grants Ike one of the best edge games. He also has super armor during some attacks.

Yeah, so Ike seems really good, right? Let's examine that claim. The majority of Ike's attacks, save for Quick Draw and his standard A combo, are start up slowly, and suffer from tremendous ending lag. His Up B has little horizontal distance. He's slow and a large target. If you can get Ike to miss an attack, you have a good chance to land some powerful hits. He's rather slow, so he's easy enough to punish if you're good and fast enough. All his attacks are fairly predictable, so you can dodge pretty easily if you have good enough timing. Throwing him down from the stage, so that Quick Draw couldn't get him back, and far enough away for Aether to be useless, makes Ike completely helpless. He's defenseless against projectiles, so that could be used to slow him down and weaken him. There are probably loads of other things too, but I'm too lazy to list them.

Congrats on rant on first day.

Now, I just consider Marth the half-Roy half-Marth in this game. Ike is a whole new character altogether in SSBB. The tip-sword thing applies to all FE characters. The recovery move is similar, and they all share the counter. How is this a new Roy? This is just a new character with similarities.

By the way, I owned as Roy. >:(

I own as Ike too!

Quote from: Triforce_Luigi on March 23, 2008, 05:44:18 PM
Blah Blah Blah

Roy and Ike are STILL too fast for their power.

Roy can easily blow anyone away at 50-70%,  and even though he is a clone of Marth, he is not inferior.

I perfer Marth to Roy, but still, Roy is simply too fast for his power.

Ike, yes, is completely helpless when thrown too far, but there's a problem there.

YOU CAN'T GET IKE AT A HIGH ENOUGH PERCENT TO THROW HIM THAT FAR WITHOUT HIM EITHER BEING FAR TOO FAR IN THE LEAD.

Ike can't beat someone like Fox, it's impossible, Ike is too slow for Fox.

But what about someone like Luigi? or Bowser? or even Falco? It's impossible for someone who's either all-around or slow to beat Ike. It's simply unfair.

Quote from: MasterYoungLink on March 23, 2008, 05:46:07 PM
By the way, I owned as Roy. >:(

I own as Ike too!

Because They're BOTH BEGINNER CHARACTERS THAT ARE EASY TO USE AND EASY TO WIN WITH BECAUSE OF HOW LITTLE DISADVANTAGES THEY HAVE.

JUST LIKE PIT, but that's for another rant.

Ike actually can defend against projectiles.  His Down B, a counter-attack, will either block most projectiles or allow the projectile to pass through him (for example, some of Rayquaza's attacks can be "shielded" against by countering) and it leaves Ike undamaged.  Something like a Bomb-omb or maybe a Smart Bomb item from SF64 I haven't tested yet.

Ike does have quite an edge.  I've done about 6 online matches and for 5 of them (all 4 people brawls) I was Ike and won all of them.  The one time I was in a one-on-one using DeDeDe. ~_^;

Not that that makes me good.. but just more proof of the edge he has.  And yes, Pit is annoying too. >_>

Quote from: Olimar on March 23, 2008, 05:54:53 PM

Quote from: Triforce_Luigi on March 23, 2008, 05:44:18 PM
Blah Blah Blah

Roy and Ike are STILL too fast for their power.

Roy can easily blow anyone away at 50-70%,  and even though he is a clone of Marth, he is not inferior.

Blow away? At those percentages? Maybe if your using a fully charged Forward Smash or Flare Blade. And what kind of idiot would stay still long enough for the move to hit? I doubt he'd be able to otherwise.

I perfer Marth to Roy, but still, Roy is simply too fast for his power.

Read above. :|

Ike, yes, is completely helpless when thrown too far, but there's a problem there.

YOU CAN'T GET IKE AT A HIGH ENOUGH PERCENT TO THROW HIM THAT FAR WITHOUT HIM EITHER BEING FAR TOO FAR IN THE LEAD.

Projectiles? Dodging around his attacks and hitting him? Both of those methods could weaken him.

Ike can't beat someone like Fox, it's impossible, Ike is too slow for Fox.

But what about someone like Luigi? or Bowser? or even Falco? It's impossible for someone who's either all-around or slow to beat Ike. It's simply unfair.

For those characters, one would have to implement dodges and attacks with good timing. No character is unstoppable. Roll or sidestep Ike's strikes and hit back.

Read the bold.

Quote from: Triforce_Luigi on March 23, 2008, 06:11:05 PM

Quote from: Olimar on March 23, 2008, 05:54:53 PM

Quote from: Triforce_Luigi on March 23, 2008, 05:44:18 PM
Blah Blah Blah

Roy and Ike are STILL too fast for their power.

Roy can easily blow anyone away at 50-70%,  and even though he is a clone of Marth, he is not inferior.

Blow away? At those percentages? Maybe if your using a fully charged Forward Smash or Flare Blade. And what kind of idiot would stay still long enough for the move to hit? I doubt he'd be able to otherwise.

Yes, blow away, at those percentages. A counter can easily blow anyone away at 50%. Any form of Side-B at 60 or so.

I perfer Marth to Roy, but still, Roy is simply too fast for his power.

Read above. :|

HE'S TOO DAMN FAST FOR HIS DAMN POWER. HE CAN EASILY CLOSE IN ON ANY ALL AROUND CHARACTER

Ike, yes, is completely helpless when thrown too far, but there's a problem there.

YOU CAN'T GET IKE AT A HIGH ENOUGH PERCENT TO THROW HIM THAT FAR WITHOUT HIM EITHER BEING FAR TOO FAR IN THE LEAD.

Projectiles? Dodging around his attacks and hitting him? Both of those methods could weaken him.

Projectiles do barely anything, and are easily countered. Dodging around? He's a tad too fast for that. Yes, he's TOO FAST FOR DODGING. He's the speed that starts that little fashion. Anyone as fast as him or faster, dodging doesn't work too well

Ike can't beat someone like Fox, it's impossible, Ike is too slow for Fox.

But what about someone like Luigi? or Bowser? or even Falco? It's impossible for someone who's either all-around or slow to beat Ike. It's simply unfair.

For those characters, one would have to implement dodges and attacks with good timing. No character is unstoppable. Roll or sidestep Ike's strikes and hit back.

You're right, no character is unstoppable. Ike and Roy can be stopped by Fox or even Captain Falcon.

Read the bold.

Read the italicized.

Quote from: Olimar on March 23, 2008, 05:54:53 PM

Quote from: MasterYoungLink on March 23, 2008, 05:46:07 PM
By the way, I owned as Roy. >:(

I own as Ike too!

Because They're BOTH BEGINNER CHARACTERS THAT ARE EASY TO USE AND EASY TO WIN WITH BECAUSE OF HOW LITTLE DISADVANTAGES THEY HAVE.

Actually, you just mentioned the disadvantages they have. No need for caps, now.

JUST LIKE PIT, but that's for another rant.

Matter of fact, he's not really beginner. He's a tiny bit advanced. Only two moves, but still.

Forgive me for borrowing the bolding, Triforce_Luigi.

Yes, I see how Counter can blow someone away, but if you time it right, then the Counter shouldn't work, and Roy will be damaged. Just wait for the Counter's frame to end.

He's not much faster than Mario, who could probably fight evenly with Roy, even with this so called "power." Luigi, who is faster than Mario, could probably put up an even better fight. The only characters that Roy could punish easily would be slow characters, like Ganondorf and Bowser, but everyone can beat them easily enough.

He can't counter every projectile, he'd keep getting hit. Plus, the lag on Counter, would probably allow you to get in a few hits if you were quick enough. As for dodging, no one is too fast to dodge. Some foes are just harder to dodge than others. I actually find Roy fairly easy to dodge using Luigi or Shie, or even Zelda. Plus, some attacks can stop Roy in his tracks momentarily, such as Falco's Blaster, Mario's Cape, and others, which leaves him open for an attack.

I've beaten Ike as Pit, Sheik, Metaknight, and Lucas. It's not that hard. :|

Quote from: MasterYoungLink on March 23, 2008, 06:22:46 PM

Quote from: Olimar on March 23, 2008, 05:54:53 PM

Quote from: MasterYoungLink on March 23, 2008, 05:46:07 PM
By the way, I owned as Roy. >:(

I own as Ike too!

Because They're BOTH BEGINNER CHARACTERS THAT ARE EASY TO USE AND EASY TO WIN WITH BECAUSE OF HOW LITTLE DISADVANTAGES THEY HAVE.

Actually, you just mentioned the disadvantages they have. No need for caps, now.

JUST LIKE PIT, but that's for another rant.

Matter of fact, he's not really beginner. He's a tiny bit advanced. Only two moves, but still.

Forgive me for borrowing the bolding, Triforce_Luigi.

Forgiven.  ;D

Quote from: MasterYoungLink on March 23, 2008, 06:22:46 PM

Quote from: Olimar on March 23, 2008, 05:54:53 PM

Quote from: MasterYoungLink on March 23, 2008, 05:46:07 PM
By the way, I owned as Roy. >:(

I own as Ike too!

Because They're BOTH BEGINNER CHARACTERS THAT ARE EASY TO USE AND EASY TO WIN WITH BECAUSE OF HOW LITTLE DISADVANTAGES THEY HAVE.

Actually, you just mentioned the disadvantages they have. No need for caps, now.

JUST LIKE PIT, but that's for another rant.

Matter of fact, he's not really beginner. He's a tiny bit advanced. Only two moves, but still.

Forgive me for borrowing the bolding, Triforce_Luigi.

I give up with Ike, but Pit is someone who I can argue against.

Pit, although one of the weakest characters in the game, next to Metaknight, I believe, isn't too fast, but he's a tad too strong for his speed.

The fact that he has two reflect moves, and one of them can reflect anything from the front, and the other can be held infinitely is a tad cheap. The fact that he has, what, 4 or 5 jumps? And then, after that, his up B can be used for about 5-10 seconds in any which way you want as long as you mash B, makes it near impossible to KO him.

Pit is also a little bit strong for his speed, as mentioned before. He's not as bad as Ike/Roy was with their speed-to-power ratio, but he's still  a little powerful. He can quite easily KO someone, given the right condition, such as a slightly charged smash attack or an aerial (PLEASE tell me i spelled that right) attack, but he can still be defeated. I can't argue as much as I can with Ike/Roy, but I still can argue...

Quote from: Triforce_Luigi on March 23, 2008, 06:27:52 PM
Yes, I see how Counter can blow someone away, but if you time it right, then the Counter shouldn't work, and Roy will be damaged. Just wait for the Counter's frame to end.

He's not much faster than Mario, who could probably fight evenly with Roy, even with this so called "power." Luigi, who is faster than Mario, could probably put up an even better fight. The only characters that Roy could punish easily would be slow characters, like Ganondorf and Bowser, but everyone can beat them easily enough.

He can't counter every projectile, he'd keep getting hit. Plus, the lag on Counter, would probably allow you to get in a few hits if you were quick enough. As for dodging, no one is too fast to dodge. Some foes are just harder to dodge than others. I actually find Roy fairly easy to dodge using Luigi or Shie, or even Zelda. Plus, some attacks can stop Roy in his tracks momentarily, such as Falco's Blaster, Mario's Cape, and others, which leaves him open for an attack.

I've beaten Ike as Pit, Sheik, Metaknight, and Lucas. It's not that hard. :|

I've only ever beaten Roy and Ike each once, both with Game and Watch, both with a stroke of luck with Judgement. I was VERY lucky with both of those, seeing as Game and Watch is so light, and they're both powerful -_-

Quote from: Olimar on March 23, 2008, 06:32:36 PM

I give up with Ike, but Pit is someone who I can argue against.

Pit, although one of the weakest characters in the game, next to Metaknight, I believe, isn't too fast, but he's a tad too strong for his speed.

Not really, I think. He's rather slow, and his attacks aren't that powerful, but still, I can see your point.

The fact that he has two reflect moves, and one of them can reflect anything from the front, and the other can be held infinitely is a tad cheap.

Angel Ring can be held infinitely, but if you hit him once, he stops. Just get behind him and hit. If he tries to stop and turn around to hit you, then the lag should be enough for you to knock him away. Plus, Mirror Shield can only reflect so much. It only sends back projectiles, and it only defends against attacks of a certain power. If you hit it with a Smash, he's sent flying.

The fact that he has, what, 4 or 5 jumps? And then, after that, his up B can be used for about 5-10 seconds in any which way you want as long as you mash B, makes it near impossible to KO him.

Here, I have to agree with you. He has 3 jumps, coupled with an amazing Up B and Gliding capabilities. You can fly under some of the stages and still survive. However, if you hit him while he's using his Up B, he loses his jumps and can't use it again.

Pit is also a little bit strong for his speed, as mentioned before. He's not as bad as Ike/Roy was with their speed-to-power ratio, but he's still  a little powerful. He can quite easily KO someone, given the right condition, such as a slightly charged smash attack or an aerial (PLEASE tell me i spelled that right) attack, but he can still be defeated. I can't argue as much as I can with Ike/Roy, but I still can argue...

Yes, he's slightly powerful for his speed, but not too much. And yes, you spelled "aerial" right.

Read bold.

As to the G&W comment, I found it rather easy, since if you can get them into the air, they are rather helpless as long as you keep juggling. The main risk there is that Ike might use Aether, but the lag for that is enough that you can dodge before it hits, and if you are sent flying, the ending lag gives you time to recover before he hits you again.

Quote from: Olimar on March 23, 2008, 06:34:44 PM

Quote from: Triforce_Luigi on March 23, 2008, 06:27:52 PM
Yes, I see how Counter can blow someone away, but if you time it right, then the Counter shouldn't work, and Roy will be damaged. Just wait for the Counter's frame to end.

He's not much faster than Mario, who could probably fight evenly with Roy, even with this so called "power." Luigi, who is faster than Mario, could probably put up an even better fight. The only characters that Roy could punish easily would be slow characters, like Ganondorf and Bowser, but everyone can beat them easily enough.

He can't counter every projectile, he'd keep getting hit. Plus, the lag on Counter, would probably allow you to get in a few hits if you were quick enough. As for dodging, no one is too fast to dodge. Some foes are just harder to dodge than others. I actually find Roy fairly easy to dodge using Luigi or Shie, or even Zelda. Plus, some attacks can stop Roy in his tracks momentarily, such as Falco's Blaster, Mario's Cape, and others, which leaves him open for an attack.

I've beaten Ike as Pit, Sheik, Metaknight, and Lucas. It's not that hard. :|

I've only ever beaten Roy and Ike each once, both with Game and Watch, both with a stroke of luck with Judgement. I was VERY lucky with both of those, seeing as Game and Watch is so light, and they're both powerful -_-

I own Ike all the time with link who has projectiles and isent a very fast character. You just have to have alot of skill and be able to dodge.

To use Ike to his full potential.
You need to master him.

sure his recovery is good, but you usually never have the time to charge it up when you are falling.
plus Ike's attacks are slow as hell.

you need really good timing to pull off his stronger moves.
trust me.
I know alot of people who are good with othe characters, but suck with ike.

I'm just use to slow swordmen. (Link, Roy,)
So that is why I man with ike and Link.

Ike may be easy to use.
but it takes time to master him.

When i started Brawl, i sucked with ike, but the more and more vs. matches I did, the better I got with him.

Short hopping attacks with ike= absolute rapage.
but it takes time to master that technique.

so yes.

Besides he has ragnell.
The coolest and strongest sword in the world...XD

           Even though I personally main Ike, he does have some major flaws. His lag time is unbearable in most cases. Especially in a game where if you miss, you get juggled or KOed. This tends to happen when the person you are playing is fairly experienced. Ike is too fast for his power? I'd beg to differ. Try using Ike against someone like Dawei. Chances are you'd get you ass kicked.
           Ike is a beginner  character? Yes, because beginners only play against level 1 computer who is actually stupid enough to stand and wait for you to charge up and unleash it upon them. He's too strong for his speed? There is a BIG difference between running speed and attack speed. He can KO somebody at a low percentage? Yes, yes he can. But he is certainly not too fast for that kind of power. As I said before, There is a big difference between running and attack speed. Running speed is how fast you run, attack speed is how fast your attacks pull off. Ike's is extremely slow. So let me get back to my point. He is strong, but YOU HAVE TO LAND AN ATTACK FOR IT TO DO ANYTHING. Using simple techniques such as dodge rolling, I was able to beat a level 9 Ike USING BOWSER. I don't even main Bowser.
            I can say from personal experience, that Ike is not as great as you claim him to be.

Ike is not Roy.
Period.

And there are WAAAAAAAY more [spoiler]Lucario[/spoiler] users than Ike users.

I can't see Ike users bothering me since he is so slow. Being a Link user I'd just sit back and use arrows and the boomerang... and the occasional bomb. If he tried getting close I'd just dodge as much as I could or catch him when I could with the sword.

I don't really see him as a cheap character to use and I didn't see Roy that way either.

Quote from: __THAT__GUY__ on March 24, 2008, 07:06:16 AM
I can't see Ike users bothering me since he is so slow. Being a Link user I'd just sit back and use arrows and the boomerang... and the occasional bomb. If he tried getting close I'd just dodge as much as I could or catch him when I could with the sword.

I don't really see him as a cheap character to use and I didn't see Roy that way either.

I haven't lost to an Ike yet as Marth.

Hes just too slow... but I'm sure another Tipman-esque player will pro him.

(Tipman = Melee Ganondorf)

Quote from: Hector_the_Axe on March 24, 2008, 06:58:16 AM
Ike is not Roy.
Period.

And there are WAAAAAAAY more [spoiler]Lucario[/spoiler] users than Ike users.

This man speaks the truth.

Quote from: Java_Java on March 24, 2008, 08:55:24 AM

Quote from: Hector_the_Axe on March 24, 2008, 06:58:16 AM
Ike is not Roy.
Period.

And there are WAAAAAAAY more [spoiler]Lucario[/spoiler] users than Ike users.

This man speaks the truth.

Everyone uses him >_<

Hes not even that good, although he can combo pretty well.

Quote from: Hector_the_Axe on March 24, 2008, 09:01:57 AM

Quote from: Java_Java on March 24, 2008, 08:55:24 AM

Quote from: Hector_the_Axe on March 24, 2008, 06:58:16 AM
Ike is not Roy.
Period.

And there are WAAAAAAAY more [spoiler]Lucario[/spoiler] users than Ike users.

This man speaks the truth.

Everyone uses him >_<

Hes not even that good, although he can combo pretty well.

I actually like [spoiler]Lucario.[/spoiler]
I don't main him, but he's one of my most played.

Actually, you know what, I don't even know if he's one of my most played anymore.
I just know that my best character (I think) is Lucas.

Quote from: Java_Java on March 24, 2008, 09:17:21 AM

Quote from: Hector_the_Axe on March 24, 2008, 09:01:57 AM

Quote from: Java_Java on March 24, 2008, 08:55:24 AM

Quote from: Hector_the_Axe on March 24, 2008, 06:58:16 AM
Ike is not Roy.
Period.

And there are WAAAAAAAY more [spoiler]Lucario[/spoiler] users than Ike users.

This man speaks the truth.

Everyone uses him >_<

Hes not even that good, although he can combo pretty well.

I actually like [spoiler]Lucario.[/spoiler]
I don't main him, but he's one of my most played.

Actually, you know what, I don't even know if he's one of my most played anymore.
I just know that my best character (I think) is Lucas.

Lucas has beast like aerials.
So far, I'm the only Marth player on NSF.
At least that I've played.

Another frequently used is Pit >_<

I don't really have a strong valid argument, but you guys keep mentioning his lag time, which is bad, I know.  But if the attack connects, wouldn't he have enough time to recover because his opponent is usually flying across the screen?

Quote from: Hector_the_Axe on March 24, 2008, 09:23:44 AM

Lucas has beast like aerials.
So far, I'm the only Marth player on NSF.
At least that I've played.

Another frequently used is Pit >_<

um...

Quote from: Marth Xero on March 24, 2008, 03:19:36 PM
I don't really have a strong valid argument, but you guys keep mentioning his lag time, which is bad, I know.  But if the attack connects, wouldn't he have enough time to recover because his opponent is usually flying across the screen?

Quote from: Hector_the_Axe on March 24, 2008, 09:23:44 AM

Lucas has beast like aerials.
So far, I'm the only Marth player on NSF.
At least that I've played.

Another frequently used is Pit >_<

um...

Want to test your skills?

Quote from: Hector_the_Axe on March 24, 2008, 03:24:22 PM

Quote from: Marth Xero on March 24, 2008, 03:19:36 PM
I don't really have a strong valid argument, but you guys keep mentioning his lag time, which is bad, I know.  But if the attack connects, wouldn't he have enough time to recover because his opponent is usually flying across the screen?

Quote from: Hector_the_Axe on March 24, 2008, 09:23:44 AM

Lucas has beast like aerials.
So far, I'm the only Marth player on NSF.
At least that I've played.

Another frequently used is Pit >_<

um...

Want to test your skills?

Believe, I'm not a coward, but for some reason the SSB system doesn't work for me, and I'm not good at any of these games...
[spoiler]You can keep the title of "NSF Marth User"[/spoiler] for now :)

Quote from: Marth Xero on March 24, 2008, 03:32:21 PM

Quote from: Hector_the_Axe on March 24, 2008, 03:24:22 PM

Quote from: Marth Xero on March 24, 2008, 03:19:36 PM
I don't really have a strong valid argument, but you guys keep mentioning his lag time, which is bad, I know.  But if the attack connects, wouldn't he have enough time to recover because his opponent is usually flying across the screen?

Quote from: Hector_the_Axe on March 24, 2008, 09:23:44 AM

Lucas has beast like aerials.
So far, I'm the only Marth player on NSF.
At least that I've played.

Another frequently used is Pit >_<

um...

Want to test your skills?

Believe, I'm not a coward, but for some reason the SSB system doesn't work for me, and I'm not good at any of these games...
[spoiler]You can keep the title of "NSF Marth User"[/spoiler] for now :)

I'm liking Mario more, but I'm much better with Marth =(

Sig time.

Quote from: Hector_the_Axe on March 24, 2008, 03:37:39 PM

Quote from: Marth Xero on March 24, 2008, 03:32:21 PM

Quote from: Hector_the_Axe on March 24, 2008, 03:24:22 PM

Quote from: Marth Xero on March 24, 2008, 03:19:36 PM
I don't really have a strong valid argument, but you guys keep mentioning his lag time, which is bad, I know.  But if the attack connects, wouldn't he have enough time to recover because his opponent is usually flying across the screen?

Quote from: Hector_the_Axe on March 24, 2008, 09:23:44 AM

Lucas has beast like aerials.
So far, I'm the only Marth player on NSF.
At least that I've played.

Another frequently used is Pit >_<

um...

Want to test your skills?

Believe, I'm not a coward, but for some reason the SSB system doesn't work for me, and I'm not good at any of these games...
[spoiler]You can keep the title of "NSF Marth User"[/spoiler] for now :)

I'm liking Mario more, but I'm much better with Marth =(

Sig time.

I don't actually use Marth...
As much as others :P

Quote from: Hector_the_Axe on March 24, 2008, 06:58:16 AM
Ike is not Roy.
Period.

And there are WAAAAAAAY more [spoiler]Lucario[/spoiler] users than Ike users.

yep.. [spoiler]Lucario[/spoiler] is sweet..

but i never go online

Quote from: Oren on March 24, 2008, 03:57:18 PM

Quote from: Hector_the_Axe on March 24, 2008, 06:58:16 AM
Ike is not Roy.
Period.

And there are WAAAAAAAY more [spoiler]Lucario[/spoiler] users than Ike users.

yep.. [spoiler]Lucario[/spoiler] is sweet..

but i never go online

Don't worry, you're not really missing out...

We can play whoever the intercourse  we want. We don't care if you think Ike sucks, we'll still play him.

No one ninnyed when everyone used Falco in Melee.

Because he has a lot of great attacks, and he's cool. He's way more powerful than King Dedede and Captain Olimar, that's for sure.

I only recently discovered the huge ownage of Ike.

I love his FS.

I use Ike because, I played RD, and hes a God in that game, I took a liking to him, and I like how hes a swordsman, with power, I dont use him because everyone else does, I just like him.

Quote from: Avion-Finch on March 24, 2008, 04:38:44 PM
I use Ike because, I played RD, and hes a God in that game, I took a liking to him, and I like how hes a swordsman, with power, I dont use him because everyone else does, I just like him.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That is also the reason why i main Ike. :)

I hate all Fire Emblem characters in SSB. They are all too slow and bulky for me...

Quote from: Phaze on March 24, 2008, 06:08:17 PM
I hate all Fire Emblem characters in SSB. They are all too slow and bulky for me...

marth?

Quote from: Phaze on March 24, 2008, 06:08:17 PM
I hate all Fire Emblem characters in SSB. They are all too slow and bulky for me...

Yeah, Marth is really slow.  :|

[/sarcasm]

I still don't see how Ike is slow.

I was an invincible beast with roy, but I totally suck with Ike.

Quote from: Co-Z on March 24, 2008, 04:14:52 PM
We can play whoever the intercourse  we want. We don't care if you think Ike sucks, we'll still play him.

No one ninnyed when everyone used Falco in Melee.

Falco wasn't broken, first of all. He was strong and slow, enough. Ike is STRONGER and FASTER than Melee's Falco.

I ninnyed whenever someone used Roy because HE was broken.

And also, a simple A combo with Ike can send someone flying at 60%, happened to me yesterday at my friend's house.

And also

Quote from: DSWiiMaster42 on March 24, 2008, 04:28:39 PM
He's way more powerful than King Dedede

Yeah, he's also FASTER than Dedede.

I think it's a problem when Character A is simply better than Character B, making whoever plays as Character B have an EXTREMELY hard time winning, not because whoever plays as character A is BETTER, he's using an ALL-AROUND BETTER CHARACTER. How can every character be beaten by every character if there's a character that can out-power powerhouses?

This is ALSO the problem with Kirby, somewhat -_-

Quote from: Olimar on March 25, 2008, 03:12:01 AM

Quote from: Co-Z on March 24, 2008, 04:14:52 PM
We can play whoever the f*** we want. We don't care if you think Ike sucks, we'll still play him.

No one b***ed when everyone used Falco in Melee.

Falco wasn't broken, first of all. He was strong and slow, enough. Ike is STRONGER and FASTER than Melee's Falco.

I b***ed whenever someone used Roy because HE was broken.

And also, a simple A combo with Ike can send someone flying at 60%, happened to me yesterday at my friend's house.

And also

Quote from: DSWiiMaster42 on March 24, 2008, 04:28:39 PM
He's way more powerful than King Dedede

Yeah, he's also FASTER than Dedede.

I think it's a problem when Character A is simply better than Character B, making whoever plays as Character B have an EXTREMELY hard time winning, not because whoever plays as character A is BETTER, he's using an ALL-AROUND BETTER CHARACTER. How can every character be beaten by every character if there's a character that can out-power powerhouses?

This is ALSO the problem with Kirby, somewhat -_-

Roy?
Broken?





HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Roy is the opposite of broken.

Marth was much more overpowered in Melee.
EVERY SINGLE ONE of Marths moves was better than Roy's, both in speed, use, damage etc.

Only Roy's charged phir3 blade was better, and if you fell for that you were an idiot.

Quote from: Hector_the_Axe on March 25, 2008, 05:29:45 AM

Quote from: Olimar on March 25, 2008, 03:12:01 AM

Quote from: Co-Z on March 24, 2008, 04:14:52 PM
We can play whoever the f*** we want. We don't care if you think Ike sucks, we'll still play him.

No one b***ed when everyone used Falco in Melee.

Falco wasn't broken, first of all. He was strong and slow, enough. Ike is STRONGER and FASTER than Melee's Falco.

I b***ed whenever someone used Roy because HE was broken.

And also, a simple A combo with Ike can send someone flying at 60%, happened to me yesterday at my friend's house.

And also

Quote from: DSWiiMaster42 on March 24, 2008, 04:28:39 PM
He's way more powerful than King Dedede

Yeah, he's also FASTER than Dedede.

I think it's a problem when Character A is simply better than Character B, making whoever plays as Character B have an EXTREMELY hard time winning, not because whoever plays as character A is BETTER, he's using an ALL-AROUND BETTER CHARACTER. How can every character be beaten by every character if there's a character that can out-power powerhouses?

This is ALSO the problem with Kirby, somewhat -_-

Roy?
Broken?





HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Roy is the opposite of broken.

Marth was much more overpowered in Melee.
EVERY SINGLE ONE of Marths moves was better than Roy's, both in speed, use, damage etc.

Only Roy's charged phir3 blade was better, and if you fell for that you were an idiot.

A Combo, Counter, uncharged smash, all do more damage for Roy than they do for Marth -_-

Quote from: Olimar on March 25, 2008, 12:06:08 PM

Quote from: Hector_the_Axe on March 25, 2008, 05:29:45 AM

Quote from: Olimar on March 25, 2008, 03:12:01 AM

Quote from: Co-Z on March 24, 2008, 04:14:52 PM
We can play whoever the f*** we want. We don't care if you think Ike sucks, we'll still play him.

No one b***ed when everyone used Falco in Melee.

Falco wasn't broken, first of all. He was strong and slow, enough. Ike is STRONGER and FASTER than Melee's Falco.

I b***ed whenever someone used Roy because HE was broken.

And also, a simple A combo with Ike can send someone flying at 60%, happened to me yesterday at my friend's house.

And also

Quote from: DSWiiMaster42 on March 24, 2008, 04:28:39 PM
He's way more powerful than King Dedede

Yeah, he's also FASTER than Dedede.

I think it's a problem when Character A is simply better than Character B, making whoever plays as Character B have an EXTREMELY hard time winning, not because whoever plays as character A is BETTER, he's using an ALL-AROUND BETTER CHARACTER. How can every character be beaten by every character if there's a character that can out-power powerhouses?

This is ALSO the problem with Kirby, somewhat -_-

Roy?
Broken?





HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Roy is the opposite of broken.

Marth was much more overpowered in Melee.
EVERY SINGLE ONE of Marths moves was better than Roy's, both in speed, use, damage etc.

Only Roy's charged phir3 blade was better, and if you fell for that you were an idiot.

A Combo, Counter, uncharged smash, all do more damage for Roy than they do for Marth -_-

Counter is far too chort.
A combo is easily dodged due to knockback.
Tipper.

Quote from: Hector_the_Axe on March 25, 2008, 12:12:12 PM

Quote from: Olimar on March 25, 2008, 12:06:08 PM

Quote from: Hector_the_Axe on March 25, 2008, 05:29:45 AM

Quote from: Olimar on March 25, 2008, 03:12:01 AM

Quote from: Co-Z on March 24, 2008, 04:14:52 PM
We can play whoever the f*** we want. We don't care if you think Ike sucks, we'll still play him.

No one b***ed when everyone used Falco in Melee.

Falco wasn't broken, first of all. He was strong and slow, enough. Ike is STRONGER and FASTER than Melee's Falco.

I b***ed whenever someone used Roy because HE was broken.

And also, a simple A combo with Ike can send someone flying at 60%, happened to me yesterday at my friend's house.

And also

Quote from: DSWiiMaster42 on March 24, 2008, 04:28:39 PM
He's way more powerful than King Dedede

Yeah, he's also FASTER than Dedede.

I think it's a problem when Character A is simply better than Character B, making whoever plays as Character B have an EXTREMELY hard time winning, not because whoever plays as character A is BETTER, he's using an ALL-AROUND BETTER CHARACTER. How can every character be beaten by every character if there's a character that can out-power powerhouses?

This is ALSO the problem with Kirby, somewhat -_-

Roy?
Broken?





HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Roy is the opposite of broken.

Marth was much more overpowered in Melee.
EVERY SINGLE ONE of Marths moves was better than Roy's, both in speed, use, damage etc.

Only Roy's charged phir3 blade was better, and if you fell for that you were an idiot.

A Combo, Counter, uncharged smash, all do more damage for Roy than they do for Marth -_-

Counter is far too chort.
A combo is easily dodged due to knockback.
Tipper.

Counter works on any move, including something like Luigi's Green Missle, or an A Combo, therefore, counter only can be "countered" if the person is using projectiles, since counter comes out EXTREMELY FAST, but then takes about 5 seconds to end (which is the only set-back I can see with Roy).

A Combo (When I say "A Combo", btw, I don't mean "One Combo", I mean "A-Button Combo", in case someone didn't get that)  will work almost EVERY time on ANYONE near Roy OR Ike (Moreso the latter, since he has an actual Combo, rather than two swipes).

What the hell is Tipper?

Firstoff, if you still think he's cheap, there's a differense between a character being cheap, and you playing people who are really good with him.

Take, for example, my cousin.

[spoiler]He uses Wolf. A LOT. Once he gets me in the air, I'm not coming back down. Why? For whatever reason, Wolf's aerial attacks are either faster or have a wider range than ANY of Ike's attacks. Aether may be able to get me down SOMETIMES, but the midair lag is long enough for him to finish me off. Wolf's blaster cancels Ike's B+Side charge, and prevents him from running straight up to him, then Wolf, being faster, can run up and slice at him. In other words, if you really want to beat Ike, Wolf is probably one of the best characters to use.[/spoiler]

If you're going to blame my skill, I can beat my cousin using ANY of my mains, and beat him no matter who he uses (Unless it's Ike vs. [spoiler]Wolf[/spoiler]). For the heck of it, he used Ike, and has only used him once to play through Classic, and let me tell you, Ike SUCKS with beginners. Firstoff, most who use his blocks end up getting hit. Hard. If your opponent isn't readable, then you're most likely going to get the timing off. This means that all you have to do is do something unpredictable, like rolling.

Rolling. Ike's biggest weakness. It dodges most of his attacks, and normally, you can hit him in the back due to his lag. Yes, it is a bit risky, but isn't that what the game is about?

The bottom line is, you're either fighting extremely good Ikes, or you just don't have the skills that are needed to beat an Ike. I'm not insulting your ability there, it's just you need to get rolling down pat if you want to completely destroy Ike. IT IS NOT NECESSARY TO ROLL TO BEAT HIM.

I'm done.  :P

Quote from: WiinolikePS3 on March 25, 2008, 02:52:01 PM
Firstoff, if you still think he's cheap, there's a differense between a character being cheap, and you playing people who are really good with him.

Sorry, I stated that wrong. He's a beginner character. Cheap, Beginner character, same thing, generally. If I can get beat by someone that has NEVER played as Ike, nor even Smash Bros., before, me playing as one of my best characters, there's a problem.

Take, for example, my cousin.

He uses Wolf. A LOT. Once he gets me in the air, I'm not coming back down. Why? For whatever reason, Wolf's aerial attacks are either faster or have a wider range than ANY of Ike's attacks. Aether may be able to get me down SOMETIMES, but the midair lag is long enough for him to finish me off. Wolf's blaster cancels Ike's B+Side charge, and prevents him from running straight up to him, then Wolf, being faster, can run up and slice at him. In other words, if you really want to beat Ike, Wolf is probably one of the best characters to use.

Well, gee, I guess I'll have to put this in a spoiler box.

[spoiler]HOLY SHIT DID U KNO TAHT ALL DA STAR FOX CHARS ARE MEANT FOR AIR ATTACKS???//////????/!111!!??[/spoiler]

In other words, Fox, Falco, and Wolf are meant to keep people up in the air, and kill them IN the air.


If you're going to blame my skill, I can beat my cousin using ANY of my mains, and beat him no matter who he uses (Unless it's Ike vs. Wolf). For the heck of it, he used Ike, and has only used him once to play through Classic, and let me tell you, Ike SUCKS with beginners. Firstoff, most who use his blocks end up getting hit. Hard. If your opponent isn't readable, then you're most likely going to get the timing off. This means that all you have to do is do something unpredictable, like rolling.

Rolling. Ike's biggest weakness. It dodges most of his attacks, and normally, you can hit him in the back due to his lag. Yes, it is a bit risky, but isn't that what the game is about?

HAY GUYZ ANOTHER SPOILER

[spoiler]GUYZ

WHEN IKE ATTACKS

MOAR THAN LIKELY

HE'LL SWING HIS SWORD BEHIND HIM 2

LIEK OMG[/spoiler]

The bottom line is, you're either fighting extremely good Ikes, or you just don't have the skills that are needed to beat an Ike. I'm not insulting your ability there, it's just you need to get rolling down pat if you want to completely destroy Ike. IT IS NOT NECESSARY TO ROLL TO BEAT HIM.

Read above -_-

I'm done.  :P

I'm not.

All I care about is that Ike can own all.

Some characters are cheap. Get used to it.

You know, your main argument is still that you simply lack the skills needed to beat Ike.  :|

Just because you can't beat him doesn't mean he's overall cheap.

Quote from: Tuppyluver1 on March 25, 2008, 03:20:05 PM
All I care about is that Ike can own all.

Some characters are cheap. Get used to it.

It pisses me off that people either DO get that Ike is cheap, and use him anyway, or that they don't understand what's wrong with Ike.

Quote from: Olimar on March 25, 2008, 03:22:11 PM

Quote from: Tuppyluver1 on March 25, 2008, 03:20:05 PM
All I care about is that Ike can own all.

Some characters are cheap. Get used to it.

It pisses me off that people either DO get that Ike is cheap, and use him anyway, or that they don't understand what's wrong with Ike.

If you think he is cheap, develop strategies against him.

And Ike isn't as bad as he could be. He could have a projectile.

Quote from: Tuppyluver1 on March 25, 2008, 03:24:22 PM

Quote from: Olimar on March 25, 2008, 03:22:11 PM

Quote from: Tuppyluver1 on March 25, 2008, 03:20:05 PM
All I care about is that Ike can own all.

Some characters are cheap. Get used to it.

It pisses me off that people either DO get that Ike is cheap, and use him anyway, or that they don't understand what's wrong with Ike.

If you think he is cheap, develop strategies against him.

And Ike isn't as bad as he could be. He could have a projectile.

And he technically could(he has a ranged, energy wave attack)

Quote from: Olimar on March 25, 2008, 03:22:11 PM

Quote from: Tuppyluver1 on March 25, 2008, 03:20:05 PM
All I care about is that Ike can own all.

Some characters are cheap. Get used to it.

It pisses me off that people either DO get that Ike is cheap, and use him anyway, or that they don't understand what's wrong with Ike.

I used Ike long before I realized he is semi-cheap, like [spoiler]Wolf,[/spoiler] and some others which I really don't want to bring in right now.

The point is, EVERY character has advantages, like Ike, but it doesn't mean he's cheap and unbeatable, ESPECIALLY in close-combat 4 player free for all matches on wifi.

Random wifi matches= DEAD IKE. On small stages, the fighting is so hectic that only Aether ever hits a target. His faster and stronger attacks are simply far too slow to keep up with the other players.

The point is, there are certain characters that can downright destroy Ike. Next time you fight Ike (In a NON random Match), if you really did think that it was totally unfair that they are using what you consider to be an extremely cheap character, use one of the characters that Ike simply sucks against. [spoiler]Wolf/Falco/Fox[/spoiler] and probably a few others, but I haven't exactly done everything in my power to find out how to kill Ike, so...  :-\

Quote from: Olimar on March 25, 2008, 02:43:42 PM

Quote from: Hector_the_Axe on March 25, 2008, 12:12:12 PM

Quote from: Olimar on March 25, 2008, 12:06:08 PM

Quote from: Hector_the_Axe on March 25, 2008, 05:29:45 AM

Quote from: Olimar on March 25, 2008, 03:12:01 AM

Quote from: Co-Z on March 24, 2008, 04:14:52 PM
We can play whoever the f*** we want. We don't care if you think Ike sucks, we'll still play him.

No one b***ed when everyone used Falco in Melee.

Falco wasn't broken, first of all. He was strong and slow, enough. Ike is STRONGER and FASTER than Melee's Falco.

I b***ed whenever someone used Roy because HE was broken.

And also, a simple A combo with Ike can send someone flying at 60%, happened to me yesterday at my friend's house.

And also

Quote from: DSWiiMaster42 on March 24, 2008, 04:28:39 PM
He's way more powerful than King Dedede

Yeah, he's also FASTER than Dedede.

I think it's a problem when Character A is simply better than Character B, making whoever plays as Character B have an EXTREMELY hard time winning, not because whoever plays as character A is BETTER, he's using an ALL-AROUND BETTER CHARACTER. How can every character be beaten by every character if there's a character that can out-power powerhouses?

This is ALSO the problem with Kirby, somewhat -_-

Roy?
Broken?





HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Roy is the opposite of broken.

Marth was much more overpowered in Melee.
EVERY SINGLE ONE of Marths moves was better than Roy's, both in speed, use, damage etc.

Only Roy's charged phir3 blade was better, and if you fell for that you were an idiot.

A Combo, Counter, uncharged smash, all do more damage for Roy than they do for Marth -_-

Counter is far too chort.
A combo is easily dodged due to knockback.
Tipper.

Counter works on any move, including something like Luigi's Green Missle, or an A Combo, therefore, counter only can be "countered" if the person is using projectiles, since counter comes out EXTREMELY FAST, but then takes about 5 seconds to end (which is the only set-back I can see with Roy).

A Combo (When I say "A Combo", btw, I don't mean "One Combo", I mean "A-Button Combo", in case someone didn't get that)  will work almost EVERY time on ANYONE near Roy OR Ike (Moreso the latter, since he has an actual Combo, rather than two swipes).

What the hell is Tipper?

1. Roy has the more powerful counter, but its window of success is drastically short than Marth's.
So the damage becomes negligible

2. His Standard Combo is fine, but worhtless as it isnt a true "combo" like Ike's.

3. The tip of Marth's sword does more damage than the middle.
Hence tipper. It has more power and more knock back than any of Roy's smashes, except maybe the D-Smash since the tipper doesnt work there. But again, Marth's longer reach helps..

Way to ignore mine. Here it is if you want to do something, or you can just ignore it again.

Quote from: RedSox on March 24, 2008, 06:50:29 AM
           Even though I personally main Ike, he does have some major flaws. His lag time is unbearable in most cases. Especially in a game where if you miss, you get juggled or KOed. This tends to happen when the person you are playing is fairly experienced. Ike is too fast for his power? I'd beg to differ. Try using Ike against someone like Dawei. Chances are you'd get you ass kicked.
           Ike is a beginner  character? Yes, because beginners only play against level 1 computer who is actually stupid enough to stand and wait for you to charge up and unleash it upon them. He's too strong for his speed? There is a BIG difference between running speed and attack speed. He can KO somebody at a low percentage? Yes, yes he can. But he is certainly not too fast for that kind of power. As I said before, There is a big difference between running and attack speed. Running speed is how fast you run, attack speed is how fast your attacks pull off. Ike's is extremely slow. So let me get back to my point. He is strong, but YOU HAVE TO LAND AN ATTACK FOR IT TO DO ANYTHING. Using simple techniques such as dodge rolling, I was able to beat a level 9 Ike USING BOWSER. I don't even main Bowser.
            I can say from personal experience, that Ike is not as great as you claim him to be.

I totally don't own as Ike. :O
I'm only decent.

:P

Quote from: Hector_the_Axe on March 25, 2008, 03:41:22 PM

Quote from: Olimar on March 25, 2008, 02:43:42 PM

Quote from: Hector_the_Axe on March 25, 2008, 12:12:12 PM

Quote from: Olimar on March 25, 2008, 12:06:08 PM

Quote from: Hector_the_Axe on March 25, 2008, 05:29:45 AM

Quote from: Olimar on March 25, 2008, 03:12:01 AM

Quote from: Co-Z on March 24, 2008, 04:14:52 PM
We can play whoever the f*** we want. We don't care if you think Ike sucks, we'll still play him.

No one b***ed when everyone used Falco in Melee.

Falco wasn't broken, first of all. He was strong and slow, enough. Ike is STRONGER and FASTER than Melee's Falco.

I b***ed whenever someone used Roy because HE was broken.

And also, a simple A combo with Ike can send someone flying at 60%, happened to me yesterday at my friend's house.

And also

Quote from: DSWiiMaster42 on March 24, 2008, 04:28:39 PM
He's way more powerful than King Dedede

Yeah, he's also FASTER than Dedede.

I think it's a problem when Character A is simply better than Character B, making whoever plays as Character B have an EXTREMELY hard time winning, not because whoever plays as character A is BETTER, he's using an ALL-AROUND BETTER CHARACTER. How can every character be beaten by every character if there's a character that can out-power powerhouses?

This is ALSO the problem with Kirby, somewhat -_-

Roy?
Broken?





HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Roy is the opposite of broken.

Marth was much more overpowered in Melee.
EVERY SINGLE ONE of Marths moves was better than Roy's, both in speed, use, damage etc.

Only Roy's charged phir3 blade was better, and if you fell for that you were an idiot.

A Combo, Counter, uncharged smash, all do more damage for Roy than they do for Marth -_-

Counter is far too chort.
A combo is easily dodged due to knockback.
Tipper.

Counter works on any move, including something like Luigi's Green Missle, or an A Combo, therefore, counter only can be "countered" if the person is using projectiles, since counter comes out EXTREMELY FAST, but then takes about 5 seconds to end (which is the only set-back I can see with Roy).

A Combo (When I say "A Combo", btw, I don't mean "One Combo", I mean "A-Button Combo", in case someone didn't get that)  will work almost EVERY time on ANYONE near Roy OR Ike (Moreso the latter, since he has an actual Combo, rather than two swipes).

What the hell is Tipper?

1. Roy has the more powerful counter, but its window of success is drastically short than Marth's.
So the damage becomes negligible Either way, Roy's counter can KO someone at around 60% if they're doing a Standard A Combo. It's happened to me countless times with Luigi.

2. His Standard Combo is fine, but worhtless as it isnt a true "combo" like Ike's. Roy's combo isn't that strong, I should have never mentioned his name there. Ike's, however, is totally overpowered, and has a gigantic range for what he actually does.

3. The tip of Marth's sword does more damage than the middle.
Hence tipper. It has more power and more knock back than any of Roy's smashes, except maybe the D-Smash since the tipper doesnt work there. But again, Marth's longer reach helps.. HAY GUYZ SPOILERZ

[spoiler]IF YOU TOUCH THE MIDDLE OF ROY'S SWORD, YOU GO FLYING. READ THE TROPHY ^_^

Answered.

also, RedSox, I've already answered all of your answers to my complaints, not directly answered TO YOU, but if you actually, you know, read the thread, you'd understand that your opinion has been stated numerous times.

Because he has hot ass n' tits

Oh wait....

I think ike is slow and takes a long time to get a move in, but when he does it is ery powerful, 30% damage for an uncharged smash

LOL, if ANYTHING, MARTH was the super quick, super cheap character!

And that laws of Smash state: Speed > Power


And what's wrong with a character having more of an advantage anyway? Besides, he's not IMMORTAL! He CAN be beaten! Even the best Ike player in the world currently could be beaten by another character! All you have to do is know the other character's strong and weak points!

Trust me,[spoiler] Lucario, Wolf, and Marth[/spoiler] are WAAAAAAAAAY cheaper than Ike.

Ike actually isn't that cheap....
does he have a tipper too?
or is it like roy's?
I can't tell....

all his attacks are like the slowest in the game...

even [spoiler]Ganondorf[/spoiler] is quicker...
so stop complaining.
You need real skill to use ike efficientley.

Quote from: Triforceman22 on March 27, 2008, 02:48:39 PM
Trust me,[spoiler] Lucario, Wolf, and Marth[/spoiler] are WAAAAAAAAAY cheaper than Ike.

Ike actually isn't that cheap....
does he have a tipper too?
or is it like roy's?
I can't tell....

all his attacks are like the slowest in the game...

even [spoiler]Ganondorf[/spoiler] is quicker...
so stop complaining.
You need real skill to use ike efficientley.

Roy has a "Middler" like Roy.

Ganondorf is the slowest character in the game, moron.

The characters you mentioned aren't cheap, since "L" and "M" are very light, and "W" has a horrible jump, and his recover isn't THAT great.

So...I noticed you didn't respond to mine.


Did I win ? ;D

Quote from: Olimar on March 27, 2008, 05:48:31 PM

Quote from: Triforceman22 on March 27, 2008, 02:48:39 PM
Trust me,[spoiler] Lucario, Wolf, and Marth[/spoiler] are WAAAAAAAAAY cheaper than Ike.

Ike actually isn't that cheap....
does he have a tipper too?
or is it like roy's?
I can't tell....

all his attacks are like the slowest in the game...

even [spoiler]Ganondorf[/spoiler] is quicker...
so stop complaining.
You need real skill to use ike efficientley.

Roy has a "Middler" like Roy.

Ganondorf is the slowest character in the game,

The characters you mentioned aren't cheap, since "L" and "M" are very light, and "W" has a horrible jump, and his recover isn't THAT great.

ha!
your wrong!

If you can get landings right on"G's" Aerial attacks, there is no lag.
I tested.
It takes Ike. about a second to pull off a F-Smash
it takes less time for "G's" F-smash to finish.

and what are you smoking?
"L's" Recovery is god-like. He can cling onto walls for god's sake.
Beside his power goes up the more he is beaten on.

And I meat Melee version of [spoiler]Marth[/spoiler]
he was cheap.  but now he sucks.

and your telling me [spoiler]Wolf[/spoiler] isn't cheap?
But Ike is?
I lol'd at that.

[spoiler]Wolf[/spoiler] can be one of the cheapest characters in the game.
so what if he doesn't have good recovery...
His overall attack power and speed make up for it.

Even his fricken blaster is powerful.
So don't tell me wolf is not cheap.

If you fight a good wolf user,

Prepare to be raped.
So think twice when you call someone a moron, K?

Quote from: Olimar on March 27, 2008, 12:13:54 PM
also, RedSox, I've already answered all of your answers to my complaints, not directly answered TO YOU, but if you actually, you know, read the thread, you'd understand that your opinion has been stated numerous times.

I've read the thread over for the lulz several times, and this single part of this post made me laugh the most. No where in the thread have I seen most of my opinions stated. If you actually bothered to read my post, you'd know that. Sure there are some, but not enough to discredit the entire post.

I must say, I was trying to stay out of this. But, I'll have to come in.


Ike is not broken. I don't care if you say he is "too fast for his power". Guess what? He isn't! :O Sure, maybe on a completely piece of poop he is too fast. "ahhhhhh his f-smash y cant i evr dawg it?!?!?!" Not to mention most all of his other attacks are slow as well. Any good speed character can rape him. Power means nothing with the amounts of lag he has. As I said, he can do good at a low level, but if you put him in a tournament situation, he will lose. Yeah, everyonce in a while he might get in the top five, but more often than not he won't win. I'm willing to bet middle tier at best.

Not to mention, the fact that you thought Roy was broken really gives me a reason to think that you are just a mentally ill child who's rants should just be discredited as a lack of getting medicine. Even Triforceman, our local "lol ike raeps u lol" guy doesn't believe he is broken. Unless I'm missing something, almost all of the actively posting Ike mains here don't believe he is broken. And if you still truly believe he is broken, take it to the smashboards (www.smashboards.com). They will show you the light.

Quote from: Dawei on March 28, 2008, 07:14:17 AM
I must say, I was trying to stay out of this. But, I'll have to come in.


Ike is not broken. I don't care if you say he is "too fast for his power". Guess what? He isn't! :O Sure, maybe on a completely piece of s*** he is too fast. "ahhhhhh his f-smash y cant i evr dawg it?!?!?!" Not to mention most all of his other attacks are slow as well. Any good speed character can rape him. Power means nothing with the amounts of lag he has. As I said, he can do good at a low level, but if you put him in a tournament situation, he will lose. Yeah, everyonce in a while he might get in the top five, but more often than not he won't win. I'm willing to bet middle tier at best.

Not to mention, the fact that you thought Roy was broken really gives me a reason to think that you are just a mentally ill child who's rants should just be discredited as a lack of getting medicine. Even Triforceman, our local "lol ike raeps u lol" guy doesn't believe he is broken. Unless I'm missing something, almost all of the actively posting Ike mains here don't believe he is broken. And if you still truly believe he is broken, take it to the smashboards (www.smashboards.com). They will show you the light.

Umm...
Lol. :P
I'm the "lol ike raeps u lol" Guy.
Thanks.

Tourney fag. XD

but I agree with you in every aspect.

Quote from: Triforceman22 on March 28, 2008, 04:37:03 AM

Quote from: Olimar on March 27, 2008, 05:48:31 PM

Quote from: Triforceman22 on March 27, 2008, 02:48:39 PM
Trust me,[spoiler] Lucario, Wolf, and Marth[/spoiler] are WAAAAAAAAAY cheaper than Ike.

Ike actually isn't that cheap....
does he have a tipper too?
or is it like roy's?
I can't tell....

all his attacks are like the slowest in the game...

even [spoiler]Ganondorf[/spoiler] is quicker...
so stop complaining.
You need real skill to use ike efficientley.

Roy has a "Middler" like Roy.

Ganondorf is the slowest character in the game,

The characters you mentioned aren't cheap, since "L" and "M" are very light, and "W" has a horrible jump, and his recover isn't THAT great.

ha!
your wrong!

Ha! You fail at typing!

If you can get landings right on"G's" Aerial attacks, there is no lag.

Which is hard as hell to do, seeing as his jump sucks

I tested.
It takes Ike. about a second to pull off a F-Smash

That has a intercourse ing God-like range and does more damage than Link's, I've tested

it takes less time for "G's" F-smash to finish.

His Final Smash only works well on small stages/flat stages

and what are you smoking?
"L's" Recovery is god-like. He can cling onto walls for god's sake.

So can about half the other characters.

Beside his power goes up the more he is beaten on.

He's light as hell, however


And I meat Melee version of [spoiler]Marth[/spoiler]
he was cheap.  but now he sucks.

He was never cheap, nor sucky -_-


and your telling me [spoiler]Wolf[/spoiler] isn't cheap?
But Ike is?
I lol'd at that.

[spoiler]Wolf[/spoiler] can be one of the cheapest characters in the game.
so what if he doesn't have good recovery...
His overall attack power and speed make up for it.

"W" is very slow, and if you didn't notice, most of his attacks take ages to perform.


Even his fricken blaster is powerful.

It has a shorter blast than [spoiler]Falco's[/spoiler], moves slower, and does 6%, unless you count getting hit by the blaster itself

So don't tell me wolf is not cheap.

If you fight a good wolf user,

Prepare to be raped.

"W's" are easily defeated with someone like "G&W", or Luigi, or even Snake for Christ's sake.

So think twice when you call someone a moron, K?

I think thrice ;)

Also, moron.

ARGUING ABOUT A VIDEO GAME CHARACTER IS SERIOUS BUSINESS, YOU GUYS.

This thread is dumb.

Quote from: Co-Z on March 28, 2008, 02:39:22 PM
ARGUING ABOUT A VIDEO GAME CHARACTER IS SERIOUS BUSINESS, YOU GUYS.

This thread is dumb.

I totally agree with your personal text ^_^

Quote from: Olimar on March 28, 2008, 02:40:11 PM

Quote from: Co-Z on March 28, 2008, 02:39:22 PM
ARGUING ABOUT A VIDEO GAME CHARACTER IS SERIOUS BUSINESS, YOU GUYS.

This thread is dumb.

I totally agree with your personal text ^_^

HOLY SHIT, DID YOU JUST HEAR THAT GUY? HE THINKS THAT INSULTING EACHOTHER OVER A VIDEO GAME IS DUMB.

LET'S KICK HIS ASS.

Who really cares?

People will use whatever they want.

Quote from: Olimar on March 28, 2008, 02:24:06 PM

Quote from: Triforceman22 on March 28, 2008, 04:37:03 AM

Quote from: Olimar on March 27, 2008, 05:48:31 PM

Quote from: Triforceman22 on March 27, 2008, 02:48:39 PM
Trust me,[spoiler] Lucario, Wolf, and Marth[/spoiler] are WAAAAAAAAAY cheaper than Ike.

Ike actually isn't that cheap....
does he have a tipper too?
or is it like roy's?
I can't tell....

all his attacks are like the slowest in the game...

even [spoiler]Ganondorf[/spoiler] is quicker...
so stop complaining.
You need real skill to use ike efficientley.

Roy has a "Middler" like Roy.

Ganondorf is the slowest character in the game,

The characters you mentioned aren't cheap, since "L" and "M" are very light, and "W" has a horrible jump, and his recover isn't THAT great.

ha!
your wrong!

Ha! You fail at typing!

Irrelevant.

If you can get landings right on"G's" Aerial attacks, there is no lag.

Which is hard as hell to do, seeing as his jump sucks

So wait till the enemy is within reach. Mindgames and strategy.

I tested.
It takes Ike. about a second to pull off a F-Smash

That has a intercourse ing God-like range and does more damage than Link's, I've tested

So roll away or ground dodge. Or get the intercourse  away from him!

it takes less time for "G's" F-smash to finish.

His Final Smash only works well on small stages/flat stages

Not if you apply it correctly. If you use it when the foe is directly in front of you, then it can do just as well.

and what are you smoking?
"L's" Recovery is god-like. He can cling onto walls for god's sake.

So can about half the other characters.

Why don't you name a couple? It's limited to only a few, not half the roster.

Beside his power goes up the more he is beaten on.

He's light as hell, however

Uh, we weighs about the same as Mario, by my estimation. Which is not "light as hell.

And I meat Melee version of [spoiler]Marth[/spoiler]
he was cheap.  but now he sucks.

He was never cheap, nor sucky -_-

Hahahahahahah! God... Either you're joking or you're a moron. Marth in Melee was almost as fast as Fox. Almost. Not to mention that the majority of his attacks did good damage, he is fairly easy to combo with. In Brawl, most of his attacks were weakened, his range is slightly lessened, and his speed is a bit lower. He sucks compared to his Melee counterpart.

and your telling me [spoiler]Wolf[/spoiler] isn't cheap?
But Ike is?
I lol'd at that.

[spoiler]Wolf[/spoiler] can be one of the cheapest characters in the game.
so what if he doesn't have good recovery...
His overall attack power and speed make up for it.

"W" is very slow, and if you didn't notice, most of his attacks take ages to perform.

Wow. Hypocrite. "W" is fairly fast, not as fast as Fox, but still around Mario's speed. His attacks are all pretty powerful and his attacks aren't nearly as slow as Ike's. If anyone's cheap, it's "W."

Even his fricken blaster is powerful.

It has a shorter blast than [spoiler]Falco's[/spoiler], moves slower, and does 6%, unless you count getting hit by the blaster itself

Still, his blaster does more damage and is also kinda versatile. It can rack up damage, stun an enemy. Plus, the blade on it makes it useful for close range as well.

So don't tell me wolf is not cheap.

If you fight a good wolf user,

Prepare to be raped.

"W's" are easily defeated with someone like "G&W", or Luigi, or even Snake for Christ's sake.

Yeah, Ike can be defeated with someone like "G&W," Pit, Luigi, Sheik, Snake, Zelda, Samus, ZSS, and pretty much the whole roster. Same with "W." Anyone can beat anyone as long as you have enough skill.

So think twice when you call someone a moron, K?

I think thrice ;)

I think several more times. ;)

Also, moron.

Kay, moron, read the italics. ;)`

Quote from: Olimar on March 28, 2008, 02:24:06 PM

Quote from: Triforceman22 on March 28, 2008, 04:37:03 AM

Quote from: Olimar on March 27, 2008, 05:48:31 PM

Quote from: Triforceman22 on March 27, 2008, 02:48:39 PM
Trust me,[spoiler] Lucario, Wolf, and Marth[/spoiler] are WAAAAAAAAAY cheaper than Ike.

Ike actually isn't that cheap....
does he have a tipper too?
or is it like roy's?
I can't tell....

all his attacks are like the slowest in the game...

even [spoiler]Ganondorf[/spoiler] is quicker...
so stop complaining.
You need real skill to use ike efficientley.

Roy has a "Middler" like Roy.

Ganondorf is the slowest character in the game,

The characters you mentioned aren't cheap, since "L" and "M" are very light, and "W" has a horrible jump, and his recover isn't THAT great.

ha!
your wrong!

Ha! You fail at typing!

If you can get landings right on"G's" Aerial attacks, there is no lag.

Which is hard as hell to do, seeing as his jump sucks

I tested.
It takes Ike. about a second to pull off a F-Smash

That has a f***ing God-like range and does more damage than Link's, I've tested

it takes less time for "G's" F-smash to finish.

His Final Smash only works well on small stages/flat stages

and what are you smoking?
"L's" Recovery is god-like. He can cling onto walls for god's sake.

So can about half the other characters.

Beside his power goes up the more he is beaten on.

He's light as hell, however


And I meat Melee version of [spoiler]Marth[/spoiler]
he was cheap.  but now he sucks.

He was never cheap, nor sucky -_-


and your telling me [spoiler]Wolf[/spoiler] isn't cheap?
But Ike is?
I lol'd at that.

[spoiler]Wolf[/spoiler] can be one of the cheapest characters in the game.
so what if he doesn't have good recovery...
His overall attack power and speed make up for it.

"W" is very slow, and if you didn't notice, most of his attacks take ages to perform.


Even his fricken blaster is powerful.

It has a shorter blast than [spoiler]Falco's[/spoiler], moves slower, and does 6%, unless you count getting hit by the blaster itself

So don't tell me wolf is not cheap.

If you fight a good wolf user,

Prepare to be raped.

"W's" are easily defeated with someone like "G&W", or Luigi, or even Snake for Christ's sake.

So think twice when you call someone a moron, K?

I think thrice ;)

Also, moron.

onoez.
Iv'e been called a moron twice.
I'mma go cry in corner now.  :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

dude.

Roy sucked.

he was just a poopty version of Marth.  Marth's tipper owned, and Roy wasn't even more powerful, unless you hit with his flare blade or his counter.  To add to that, his counter lasted a much shorter time and had quite a bit more lag IIRC.

Roy requires you to get close to the Opponent.  Marth can deal more damage while staying out of reach of opponents.  Marth wins.


Just because Roy has "teh phier" doesn't mean he is a better character.  He was a much worse character, and really there was no point in playing him, because he was just a really bad version of one of the best characters in the game.


Ike is completely different than Roy.  The only things they really have in common are "teh phier" and a victory pose. :|

Let's look at everything you have said for a moment. During this time my 1337 Cross Examination skills will completely and utterly render almost all of your statements false. Let's start at the begging shall we?


Wow, a rant and it's only my first day -_-

This in general is just a bad idea in the first place, review the facts and what people are talking about on the subject before ranting next time. First of all your title itself is incorrect Ike may be good by only a fraction of the people here use him and every person in general. I do use Ike however, so don't hold it against me or anything for defending this point and or saying I am a hypocrite for saying his weaknesses.

I find it saddening that people don't understand the problem with Ike.

I find it saddening that you can't understand that he is balenced and beatable... and for that matter not even a "...demented form of Roy.", but I will get to that later.

I'm going to assume that people that use Ike know how Roy was like in Melee, because all Ike is is a demented form of Roy.

OOOR, I could get to it right now. The following are just a few reasons why Roy is not in any way shape or form Ike:
1. Ike's up smash is a smash attack that covers a much broader area than Roy's and has a chance of hitting the side as well. It is also more powerful and SLOWER.
2. Every single air attack Ike has is different that Roy's
3. His standard A is different than Roy's and SLOWER. (See a pattern yet?)
4. His side B is easier to avoid and not combo able yet MUCH FASTER.  (Ok, so no pattern, sue me.)
5. Even though his Standard B involves fire, this never happened in his game and Sakurai did this just for the Roy fans. This is the ONLY move that he has similar besides the Moves all Fire Emblem characters have. These being Side A, Counter, and Down A smash.
6. His Standard up a is much different and covers a smaller range with greater hit back.
7. Standard Side A is different than Roy's who does a vertical motion while Ike's is horizontal.
8. Ike is slower than Roy in not only attack speed, but speed in general.



Let's start out with Roy in Melee.

Roy came from an epic game series know as Fire Emblem, which you all know. Roy, however, unlike Marth, sucks ass. Not only is he extremely overpowered, he's too quick for his overall power. He is an EXTREMELY cheap character to use, seeing as if you try to counter Roy with a fast character, he'll blow you away, and if you try to counter Roy with a powerful character, Roy can simply zoom past you, and then blow you away. It was almost impossible to beat Roy unless you had a stroke of luck with items, which most people turn off anyway. The only way I've ever beaten Roy without any sort of luck was with Pichu. And they removed him from Brawl.

How is sucking ass and overpowered related again? Anyway the point I will try to make here is that Roy was not overpowered, in fact, he sucked more than Marth. Meaning that Marth was the better Character as someone has already explained. He has a multitude of weaknesses and if you could only beat him with Pichu something is not right. Do you always play a professional Roy user/really good one? That could be why you resent it, the player is most likely just better than you, it is nothing to get worked up about the same thing happened with a Roy user in our neighborhood. It took me 2 years to figure out how to beat the guy!

Now to Ike.

On March 9th, Super Smash Brothers Brawl came out, and one of the starting characters was Ike. In seeing that, and also in reading his section on the Brawl website, I knew he was a half-clone of Roy. Yes, indeed he does move SLOWER, but not slow enough. And also seeing that they replaced Roy's Side-B with a move that can send Ike more than half-way across Final Destination is just as bad as being fast and powerful. He, I believe is actually MORE Powerful than Roy. And the fact that they kept the idea from Roy where if you touch a certain point of his sword, you're a goner, is even worse with someone like Ike.

You can't judge if someone is even close to a clone until you see all of their moves and play as them. If you call him a half clone of Roy, you might as well call him a half clone of Marth. Which would not make sense, so why compare to Roy?

I can somewhat give Nintendo credit for TRYING to fix Roy, seeing as if they completely changed Roy it would piss too many people off, they simply got rid of Roy and put Ike in, thus somewhat fixing the problem. But not enough Nintendo, not enough. He IS beatable, if someone who just got the game and has never played a fighting game before is playing as him, yes, he is beatable. Otherwise, I can only see MAYBE Pit beating a semi-experienced Ike.

Geez, this is getting tedious. The following refute your points:
1. Ike is beatable, however so was Roy. Easily in fact as stated by others already.
2. Granted, Pit does have an edge over Ike, but my point is anybody could have beaten anybody. Roy was never overpowered, and neither is Ike.


That's my rant, now, I'll just put my flame shield up and wait a little while...Roy and Ike are STILL too fast for their power.

If you think Ike or Roy is fast you are crazy.

Roy can easily blow anyone away at 50-70%,  and even though he is a clone of Marth, he is not inferior.

Yes he is and everyone (almost) on the board who participated in the Roy V.S. Marth Debates on Oldsider will believe me.

I perfer Marth to Roy, but still, Roy is simply too fast for his power.

Look at points above.

Ike, yes, is completely helpless when thrown too far, but there's a problem there.

YOU CAN'T GET IKE AT A HIGH ENOUGH PERCENT TO THROW HIM THAT FAR WITHOUT HIM EITHER BEING FAR TOO FAR IN THE LEAD.

Don't use Caps Lock, also that is a load of bull my 11 year old brother is a beast with Young Link and is even with me throughout all of our battles.

Ike can't beat someone like Fox, it's impossible, Ike is too slow for Fox.

I beat Fox all the time, you just use L/R down shield or counter at the right time and have a good placed move or two.

But what about someone like Luigi? or Bowser? or even Falco? It's impossible for someone who's either all-around or slow to beat Ike. It's simply unfair.

See above.

Quote from: MasterYoungLink on March 23, 2008, 05:46:07 PM
By the way, I owned as Roy. >:(

I own as Ike too!

Because They're BOTH BEGINNER CHARACTERS THAT ARE EASY TO USE AND EASY TO WIN WITH BECAUSE OF HOW LITTLE DISADVANTAGES THEY HAVE.

JUST LIKE PIT, but that's for another rant.

That, or maybe you just can't stand the fact that you cannot beat him. End of counter rant. Have a nice day.
[/quote]
EDIT:
Also, since I typed this you have stated numerous disgustingly obvious contradictions and I am wondering why people have not pointed them out, put I will just roll with it and hope someone yells objection for me, because you are honestly not worth my time. 

Quote from: Olimar on March 28, 2008, 02:24:06 PM

Quote from: Triforceman22 on March 28, 2008, 04:37:03 AM

Quote from: Olimar on March 27, 2008, 05:48:31 PM

Quote from: Triforceman22 on March 27, 2008, 02:48:39 PM
Trust me,[spoiler] Lucario, Wolf, and Marth[/spoiler] are WAAAAAAAAAY cheaper than Ike.

Ike actually isn't that cheap....
does he have a tipper too?
or is it like roy's?
I can't tell....

all his attacks are like the slowest in the game...

even [spoiler]Ganondorf[/spoiler] is quicker...
so stop complaining.
You need real skill to use ike efficientley.

Roy has a "Middler" like Roy.

Ganondorf is the slowest character in the game,

The characters you mentioned aren't cheap, since "L" and "M" are very light, and "W" has a horrible jump, and his recover isn't THAT great.

[spoiler]
ha!
your wrong!

Ha! You fail at typing!

If you can get landings right on"G's" Aerial attacks, there is no lag.

Which is hard as hell to do, seeing as his jump sucks

I tested.
It takes Ike. about a second to pull off a F-Smash

That has a f***ing God-like range and does more damage than Link's, I've tested

it takes less time for "G's" F-smash to finish.

His Final Smash only works well on small stages/flat stages

and what are you smoking?
"L's" Recovery is god-like. He can cling onto walls for god's sake.

So can about half the other characters.

Beside his power goes up the more he is beaten on.

He's light as hell, however


And I meat Melee version of [spoiler]Marth[/spoiler]
he was cheap.  but now he sucks.

He was never cheap, nor sucky -_-


and your telling me [spoiler]Wolf[/spoiler] isn't cheap?
But Ike is?
I lol'd at that.

[spoiler]Wolf[/spoiler] can be one of the cheapest characters in the game.
so what if he doesn't have good recovery...
His overall attack power and speed make up for it.

"W" is very slow, and if you didn't notice, most of his attacks take ages to perform.


Even his fricken blaster is powerful.

It has a shorter blast than [spoiler]Falco's[/spoiler], moves slower, and does 6%, unless you count getting hit by the blaster itself

So don't tell me wolf is not cheap.

If you fight a good wolf user,

Prepare to be raped.

"W's" are easily defeated with someone like "G&W", or Luigi, or even Snake for Christ's sake.

So think twice when you call someone a moron, K?

I think thrice ;)[/spoiler]

Also, moron.

Was that really necessary?
No it wasn't.

There's no need for random insults.

But if you want people to keep on proving you wrong so you can call them morons, go right ahead.

Quote from: Tuppyluver1 on March 28, 2008, 02:49:09 PM
Who really cares?

People will use whatever they want.

This.

OP, ever heard of "fight fire with fire"? WELL IF YOU THINK IKE IS OP AND THAT SUNUVABITCH IS USING IKE, USE IKE, TOO!