Why the hell does everyone use Ike.

[Kilroy]

Wow, a rant and it's only my first day -_-

I find it saddening that people don't understand the problem with Ike.

I'm going to assume that people that use Ike know how Roy was like in Melee, because all Ike is is a demented form of Roy.

Let's start out with Roy in Melee.

Roy came from an epic game series know as Fire Emblem, which you all know. Roy, however, unlike Marth, sucks ass. Not only is he extremely overpowered, he's too quick for his overall power. He is an EXTREMELY cheap character to use, seeing as if you try to counter Roy with a fast character, he'll blow you away, and if you try to counter Roy with a powerful character, Roy can simply zoom past you, and then blow you away. It was almost impossible to beat Roy unless you had a stroke of luck with items, which most people turn off anyway. The only way I've ever beaten Roy without any sort of luck was with Pichu. And they removed him from Brawl.

Now to Ike.

On March 9th, Super Smash Brothers Brawl came out, and one of the starting characters was Ike. In seeing that, and also in reading his section on the Brawl website, I knew he was a half-clone of Roy. Yes, indeed he does move SLOWER, but not slow enough. And also seeing that they replaced Roy's Side-B with a move that can send Ike more than half-way across Final Destination is just as bad as being fast and powerful. He, I believe is actually MORE Powerful than Roy. And the fact that they kept the idea from Roy where if you touch a certain point of his sword, you're a goner, is even worse with someone like Ike.

I can somewhat give Nintendo credit for TRYING to fix Roy, seeing as if they completely changed Roy it would piss too many people off, they simply got rid of Roy and put Ike in, thus somewhat fixing the problem. But not enough Nintendo, not enough. He IS beatable, if someone who just got the game and has never played a fighting game before is playing as him, yes, he is beatable. Otherwise, I can only see MAYBE Pit beating a semi-experienced Ike.

That's my rant, now, I'll just put my flame shield up and wait a little while...

[Triforce_Luigi]

*opens mouth*

*closes mouth*

Wow. ROY, blowing you away? In Melee, Roy wasn't as great as you say. Roy is often considered an inferior clone of Marth. His power isn't that much, unless you use a fully charged Flare Blade or Smash. His standard attacks are only slightly more powerful than Marth's. He isn't fast or strong enough to blow Fox away with a single blow. Unless that blow happens to be Flare Blade at full power, or his Foward Smash on a weakened foe. His speed is decent, but he isn't nearly as fast as Fox, or even Marth. That puts him at a disadvantage, does it not?

Let's examine some of his other glaring weaknesses. No projectile, not too bad, but it might be problematic in some cases. He's a bit over-reliant on his Forward Smash, his only effective kill move save for Flare Blade. His recovery is rather short, though manageable. He's also rather easy to juggle, with a semi-fast falling speed, so knocking him into the air makes him an easy target.

As you can see, Roy isn't the perfect fighter you make him out to be.

Now for Ike.

Ike possesses great power, as you said. His long sword grants him amazing range. His Side B, Quick Draw, can be used to get around quickly, and is also versatile. His Back Air and Forward Smash are both powerful with a wide range. He has two spikes, and he can KO at percentages as low as 50. His horizontal recovery is amazing with Quick Draw and Aether. His Up B grants Ike one of the best edge games. He also has super armor during some attacks.

Yeah, so Ike seems really good, right? Let's examine that claim. The majority of Ike's attacks, save for Quick Draw and his standard A combo, are start up slowly, and suffer from tremendous ending lag. His Up B has little horizontal distance. He's slow and a large target. If you can get Ike to miss an attack, you have a good chance to land some powerful hits. He's rather slow, so he's easy enough to punish if you're good and fast enough. All his attacks are fairly predictable, so you can dodge pretty easily if you have good enough timing. Throwing him down from the stage, so that Quick Draw couldn't get him back, and far enough away for Aether to be useless, makes Ike completely helpless. He's defenseless against projectiles, so that could be used to slow him down and weaken him. There are probably loads of other things too, but I'm too lazy to list them.

[SkyMyl]

Congrats on rant on first day.

Now, I just consider Marth the half-Roy half-Marth in this game. Ike is a whole new character altogether in SSBB. The tip-sword thing applies to all FE characters. The recovery move is similar, and they all share the counter. How is this a new Roy? This is just a new character with similarities.

By the way, I owned as Roy. >:(

I own as Ike too!

[Kilroy]

Blah Blah Blah

Roy and Ike are STILL too fast for their power.

Roy can easily blow anyone away at 50-70%,  and even though he is a clone of Marth, he is not inferior.

I perfer Marth to Roy, but still, Roy is simply too fast for his power.

Ike, yes, is completely helpless when thrown too far, but there's a problem there.

YOU CAN'T GET IKE AT A HIGH ENOUGH PERCENT TO THROW HIM THAT FAR WITHOUT HIM EITHER BEING FAR TOO FAR IN THE LEAD.

Ike can't beat someone like Fox, it's impossible, Ike is too slow for Fox.

But what about someone like Luigi? or Bowser? or even Falco? It's impossible for someone who's either all-around or slow to beat Ike. It's simply unfair.

By the way, I owned as Roy. >:(

I own as Ike too!

Because They're BOTH BEGINNER CHARACTERS THAT ARE EASY TO USE AND EASY TO WIN WITH BECAUSE OF HOW LITTLE DISADVANTAGES THEY HAVE.

JUST LIKE PIT, but that's for another rant.

[THEEVILSPERKY]

Ike actually can defend against projectiles.  His Down B, a counter-attack, will either block most projectiles or allow the projectile to pass through him (for example, some of Rayquaza's attacks can be "shielded" against by countering) and it leaves Ike undamaged.  Something like a Bomb-omb or maybe a Smart Bomb item from SF64 I haven't tested yet.

Ike does have quite an edge.  I've done about 6 online matches and for 5 of them (all 4 people brawls) I was Ike and won all of them.  The one time I was in a one-on-one using DeDeDe. ~_^;

Not that that makes me good.. but just more proof of the edge he has.  And yes, Pit is annoying too. >_>

[Triforce_Luigi]

Blah Blah Blah

Roy and Ike are STILL too fast for their power.

Roy can easily blow anyone away at 50-70%,  and even though he is a clone of Marth, he is not inferior.

Blow away? At those percentages? Maybe if your using a fully charged Forward Smash or Flare Blade. And what kind of idiot would stay still long enough for the move to hit? I doubt he'd be able to otherwise.

I perfer Marth to Roy, but still, Roy is simply too fast for his power.

Read above. :|

Ike, yes, is completely helpless when thrown too far, but there's a problem there.

YOU CAN'T GET IKE AT A HIGH ENOUGH PERCENT TO THROW HIM THAT FAR WITHOUT HIM EITHER BEING FAR TOO FAR IN THE LEAD.

Projectiles? Dodging around his attacks and hitting him? Both of those methods could weaken him.

Ike can't beat someone like Fox, it's impossible, Ike is too slow for Fox.

But what about someone like Luigi? or Bowser? or even Falco? It's impossible for someone who's either all-around or slow to beat Ike. It's simply unfair.

For those characters, one would have to implement dodges and attacks with good timing. No character is unstoppable. Roll or sidestep Ike's strikes and hit back.

Read the bold.

[Kilroy]

Blah Blah Blah

Roy and Ike are STILL too fast for their power.

Roy can easily blow anyone away at 50-70%,  and even though he is a clone of Marth, he is not inferior.

Blow away? At those percentages? Maybe if your using a fully charged Forward Smash or Flare Blade. And what kind of idiot would stay still long enough for the move to hit? I doubt he'd be able to otherwise.

Yes, blow away, at those percentages. A counter can easily blow anyone away at 50%. Any form of Side-B at 60 or so.

I perfer Marth to Roy, but still, Roy is simply too fast for his power.

Read above. :|

HE'S TOO DAMN FAST FOR HIS DAMN POWER. HE CAN EASILY CLOSE IN ON ANY ALL AROUND CHARACTER

Ike, yes, is completely helpless when thrown too far, but there's a problem there.

YOU CAN'T GET IKE AT A HIGH ENOUGH PERCENT TO THROW HIM THAT FAR WITHOUT HIM EITHER BEING FAR TOO FAR IN THE LEAD.

Projectiles? Dodging around his attacks and hitting him? Both of those methods could weaken him.

Projectiles do barely anything, and are easily countered. Dodging around? He's a tad too fast for that. Yes, he's TOO FAST FOR DODGING. He's the speed that starts that little fashion. Anyone as fast as him or faster, dodging doesn't work too well

Ike can't beat someone like Fox, it's impossible, Ike is too slow for Fox.

But what about someone like Luigi? or Bowser? or even Falco? It's impossible for someone who's either all-around or slow to beat Ike. It's simply unfair.

For those characters, one would have to implement dodges and attacks with good timing. No character is unstoppable. Roll or sidestep Ike's strikes and hit back.

You're right, no character is unstoppable. Ike and Roy can be stopped by Fox or even Captain Falcon.

Read the bold.

Read the italicized.

[SkyMyl]

By the way, I owned as Roy. >:(

I own as Ike too!

Because They're BOTH BEGINNER CHARACTERS THAT ARE EASY TO USE AND EASY TO WIN WITH BECAUSE OF HOW LITTLE DISADVANTAGES THEY HAVE.

Actually, you just mentioned the disadvantages they have. No need for caps, now.

JUST LIKE PIT, but that's for another rant.

Matter of fact, he's not really beginner. He's a tiny bit advanced. Only two moves, but still.

Forgive me for borrowing the bolding, Triforce_Luigi.

[Triforce_Luigi]

Yes, I see how Counter can blow someone away, but if you time it right, then the Counter shouldn't work, and Roy will be damaged. Just wait for the Counter's frame to end.

He's not much faster than Mario, who could probably fight evenly with Roy, even with this so called "power." Luigi, who is faster than Mario, could probably put up an even better fight. The only characters that Roy could punish easily would be slow characters, like Ganondorf and Bowser, but everyone can beat them easily enough.

He can't counter every projectile, he'd keep getting hit. Plus, the lag on Counter, would probably allow you to get in a few hits if you were quick enough. As for dodging, no one is too fast to dodge. Some foes are just harder to dodge than others. I actually find Roy fairly easy to dodge using Luigi or Shie, or even Zelda. Plus, some attacks can stop Roy in his tracks momentarily, such as Falco's Blaster, Mario's Cape, and others, which leaves him open for an attack.

I've beaten Ike as Pit, Sheik, Metaknight, and Lucas. It's not that hard. :|

By the way, I owned as Roy. >:(

I own as Ike too!

Because They're BOTH BEGINNER CHARACTERS THAT ARE EASY TO USE AND EASY TO WIN WITH BECAUSE OF HOW LITTLE DISADVANTAGES THEY HAVE.

Actually, you just mentioned the disadvantages they have. No need for caps, now.

JUST LIKE PIT, but that's for another rant.

Matter of fact, he's not really beginner. He's a tiny bit advanced. Only two moves, but still.

Forgive me for borrowing the bolding, Triforce_Luigi.

Forgiven.  ;D

[Kilroy]

By the way, I owned as Roy. >:(

I own as Ike too!

Because They're BOTH BEGINNER CHARACTERS THAT ARE EASY TO USE AND EASY TO WIN WITH BECAUSE OF HOW LITTLE DISADVANTAGES THEY HAVE.

Actually, you just mentioned the disadvantages they have. No need for caps, now.

JUST LIKE PIT, but that's for another rant.

Matter of fact, he's not really beginner. He's a tiny bit advanced. Only two moves, but still.

Forgive me for borrowing the bolding, Triforce_Luigi.

I give up with Ike, but Pit is someone who I can argue against.

Pit, although one of the weakest characters in the game, next to Metaknight, I believe, isn't too fast, but he's a tad too strong for his speed.

The fact that he has two reflect moves, and one of them can reflect anything from the front, and the other can be held infinitely is a tad cheap. The fact that he has, what, 4 or 5 jumps? And then, after that, his up B can be used for about 5-10 seconds in any which way you want as long as you mash B, makes it near impossible to KO him.

Pit is also a little bit strong for his speed, as mentioned before. He's not as bad as Ike/Roy was with their speed-to-power ratio, but he's still  a little powerful. He can quite easily KO someone, given the right condition, such as a slightly charged smash attack or an aerial (PLEASE tell me i spelled that right) attack, but he can still be defeated. I can't argue as much as I can with Ike/Roy, but I still can argue...

[Kilroy]

Yes, I see how Counter can blow someone away, but if you time it right, then the Counter shouldn't work, and Roy will be damaged. Just wait for the Counter's frame to end.

He's not much faster than Mario, who could probably fight evenly with Roy, even with this so called "power." Luigi, who is faster than Mario, could probably put up an even better fight. The only characters that Roy could punish easily would be slow characters, like Ganondorf and Bowser, but everyone can beat them easily enough.

He can't counter every projectile, he'd keep getting hit. Plus, the lag on Counter, would probably allow you to get in a few hits if you were quick enough. As for dodging, no one is too fast to dodge. Some foes are just harder to dodge than others. I actually find Roy fairly easy to dodge using Luigi or Shie, or even Zelda. Plus, some attacks can stop Roy in his tracks momentarily, such as Falco's Blaster, Mario's Cape, and others, which leaves him open for an attack.

I've beaten Ike as Pit, Sheik, Metaknight, and Lucas. It's not that hard. :|

I've only ever beaten Roy and Ike each once, both with Game and Watch, both with a stroke of luck with Judgement. I was VERY lucky with both of those, seeing as Game and Watch is so light, and they're both powerful -_-

[Triforce_Luigi]

I give up with Ike, but Pit is someone who I can argue against.

Pit, although one of the weakest characters in the game, next to Metaknight, I believe, isn't too fast, but he's a tad too strong for his speed.

Not really, I think. He's rather slow, and his attacks aren't that powerful, but still, I can see your point.

The fact that he has two reflect moves, and one of them can reflect anything from the front, and the other can be held infinitely is a tad cheap.

Angel Ring can be held infinitely, but if you hit him once, he stops. Just get behind him and hit. If he tries to stop and turn around to hit you, then the lag should be enough for you to knock him away. Plus, Mirror Shield can only reflect so much. It only sends back projectiles, and it only defends against attacks of a certain power. If you hit it with a Smash, he's sent flying.

The fact that he has, what, 4 or 5 jumps? And then, after that, his up B can be used for about 5-10 seconds in any which way you want as long as you mash B, makes it near impossible to KO him.

Here, I have to agree with you. He has 3 jumps, coupled with an amazing Up B and Gliding capabilities. You can fly under some of the stages and still survive. However, if you hit him while he's using his Up B, he loses his jumps and can't use it again.

Pit is also a little bit strong for his speed, as mentioned before. He's not as bad as Ike/Roy was with their speed-to-power ratio, but he's still  a little powerful. He can quite easily KO someone, given the right condition, such as a slightly charged smash attack or an aerial (PLEASE tell me i spelled that right) attack, but he can still be defeated. I can't argue as much as I can with Ike/Roy, but I still can argue...

Yes, he's slightly powerful for his speed, but not too much. And yes, you spelled "aerial" right.

Read bold.

As to the G&W comment, I found it rather easy, since if you can get them into the air, they are rather helpless as long as you keep juggling. The main risk there is that Ike might use Aether, but the lag for that is enough that you can dodge before it hits, and if you are sent flying, the ending lag gives you time to recover before he hits you again.

[Allegretto]

Yes, I see how Counter can blow someone away, but if you time it right, then the Counter shouldn't work, and Roy will be damaged. Just wait for the Counter's frame to end.

He's not much faster than Mario, who could probably fight evenly with Roy, even with this so called "power." Luigi, who is faster than Mario, could probably put up an even better fight. The only characters that Roy could punish easily would be slow characters, like Ganondorf and Bowser, but everyone can beat them easily enough.

He can't counter every projectile, he'd keep getting hit. Plus, the lag on Counter, would probably allow you to get in a few hits if you were quick enough. As for dodging, no one is too fast to dodge. Some foes are just harder to dodge than others. I actually find Roy fairly easy to dodge using Luigi or Shie, or even Zelda. Plus, some attacks can stop Roy in his tracks momentarily, such as Falco's Blaster, Mario's Cape, and others, which leaves him open for an attack.

I've beaten Ike as Pit, Sheik, Metaknight, and Lucas. It's not that hard. :|

I've only ever beaten Roy and Ike each once, both with Game and Watch, both with a stroke of luck with Judgement. I was VERY lucky with both of those, seeing as Game and Watch is so light, and they're both powerful -_-

I own Ike all the time with link who has projectiles and isent a very fast character. You just have to have alot of skill and be able to dodge.

[Triforceman22]

To use Ike to his full potential.
You need to master him.

sure his recovery is good, but you usually never have the time to charge it up when you are falling.
plus Ike's attacks are slow as hell.

you need really good timing to pull off his stronger moves.
trust me.
I know alot of people who are good with othe characters, but suck with ike.

I'm just use to slow swordmen. (Link, Roy,)
So that is why I man with ike and Link.

Ike may be easy to use.
but it takes time to master him.

When i started Brawl, i sucked with ike, but the more and more vs. matches I did, the better I got with him.

Short hopping attacks with ike= absolute rapage.
but it takes time to master that technique.

so yes.

Besides he has ragnell.
The coolest and strongest sword in the world...XD

[Red]

           Even though I personally main Ike, he does have some major flaws. His lag time is unbearable in most cases. Especially in a game where if you miss, you get juggled or KOed. This tends to happen when the person you are playing is fairly experienced. Ike is too fast for his power? I'd beg to differ. Try using Ike against someone like Dawei. Chances are you'd get you ass kicked.
           Ike is a beginner  character? Yes, because beginners only play against level 1 computer who is actually stupid enough to stand and wait for you to charge up and unleash it upon them. He's too strong for his speed? There is a BIG difference between running speed and attack speed. He can KO somebody at a low percentage? Yes, yes he can. But he is certainly not too fast for that kind of power. As I said before, There is a big difference between running and attack speed. Running speed is how fast you run, attack speed is how fast your attacks pull off. Ike's is extremely slow. So let me get back to my point. He is strong, but YOU HAVE TO LAND AN ATTACK FOR IT TO DO ANYTHING. Using simple techniques such as dodge rolling, I was able to beat a level 9 Ike USING BOWSER. I don't even main Bowser.
            I can say from personal experience, that Ike is not as great as you claim him to be.