http://kotaku.com/5533852/nintendo-still-figuring-out-this-online-subscription-fee-thing (http://kotaku.com/5533852/nintendo-still-figuring-out-this-online-subscription-fee-thing)
Miyamoto recently spoke about Nintendo's online service, and admits they're trying to figure out how to go about this "online" thing they've heard so much about (ok, I'm exaggerating that a bit). Basically they're looking at various modes of what they should do, go the Xbox route and charge a flat fee, do something like the rumored PSN premium route and have it free with bonus stuff for those who pay, etc.
However, what I found amusing is that how Miyamoto finds the criticisms "unfair" and how he wants "all users to connect online". I'm sorry but that made me laugh so freaking hard. Shiggy, get something that's worth going online for, and we'll go online. But until you get a service that's easy and hassle free, actually works, and make some games that actually USE the service, I'm not so much as spending a penny on anything you produce that's supposed to be online.
lmao
Quote from: Nayrman on May 07, 2010, 06:29:31 PM
http://kotaku.com/5533852/nintendo-still-figuring-out-this-online-subscription-fee-thing (http://kotaku.com/5533852/nintendo-still-figuring-out-this-online-subscription-fee-thing)
Miyamoto recently spoke about Nintendo's online service, and admits they're trying to figure out how to go about this "online" thing they've heard so much about (ok, I'm exaggerating that a bit). Basically they're looking at various modes of what they should do, go the Xbox route and charge a flat fee, do something like the rumored PSN premium route and have it free with bonus stuff for those who pay, etc.
However, what I found amusing is that how Miyamoto finds the criticisms "unfair" and how he wants "all users to connect online". I'm sorry but that made me laugh so freaking hard. Shiggy, get something that's worth going online for, and we'll go online. But until you get a service that's easy and hassle free, actually works, and make some games that actually USE the service, I'm not so much as spending a penny on anything you produce that's supposed to be online.
You always exaggerate too much, regardless when you admit it a few times.
Anyway, if they're going to upgrade online, that's fine with me. I'll see what they can do. Oh, and also, I don't think it's going to be the worst online ever.
IF they start charging and IF they drop friend codes, I might actually use it.
Quote from: Nayrman on May 07, 2010, 06:29:31 PM
http://kotaku.com/5533852/nintendo-still-figuring-out-this-online-subscription-fee-thing (http://kotaku.com/5533852/nintendo-still-figuring-out-this-online-subscription-fee-thing)
Miyamoto recently spoke about Nintendo's online service, and admits they're trying to figure out how to go about this "online" thing they've heard so much about (ok, I'm exaggerating that a bit). Basically they're looking at various modes of what they should do, go the Xbox route and charge a flat fee, do something like the rumored PSN premium route and have it free with bonus stuff for those who pay, etc.
However, what I found amusing is that how Miyamoto finds the criticisms "unfair" and how he wants "all users to connect online". I'm sorry but that made me laugh so freaking hard. Shiggy, get something that's worth going online for, and we'll go online. But until you get a service that's easy and hassle free, actually works, and make some games that actually USE the service, I'm not so much as spending a penny on anything you produce that's supposed to be online.
Yet you chastize him for offering what no one else does for free. Personally, I'd say he's on a level playing field right now. When the service becomes something that needs paid for, then I'll think there's an issue.
Quote from: Sherlock on May 09, 2010, 09:55:44 PM
Yet you chastize him for offering what no one else does for free. Personally, I'd say he's on a level playing field right now. When the service becomes something that needs paid for, then I'll think there's an issue.
The problem is, is that while the service is free it isn't even worth a passing glance.
Quote from: Zero on May 10, 2010, 03:24:50 AM
The problem is, is that while the service is free it isn't even worth a passing glance.
It is, though.
Quote from: AuraChannelerChris on May 10, 2010, 06:07:50 AM
It is, though.
Actually, no it isn't. Nintendo themselves have barely any online games, and the ones they do either suck or have a terrible service. The only one I could stand playing online at all was Mario Kart Wii. All my DS games lag up the ass, and most of the Wii games that I've played online lag terribly, and the overall service is laughable. Friend Codes, lack of voice chat (please, forcing people to use one, and only ONE, lame peripheral hardly counts), no type of gamertags, etc.
Sony does so much MORE for free, Nintendo needs to fix online before even considering payment options.
Quote from: Nayrman on May 10, 2010, 06:17:21 AM
Actually, no it isn't. Nintendo themselves have barely any online games, and the ones they do either suck or have a terrible service. The only one I could stand playing online at all was Mario Kart Wii. All my DS games lag up the ass, and most of the Wii games that I've played online lag terribly, and the overall service is laughable. Friend Codes, lack of voice chat (please, forcing people to use one, and only ONE, lame peripheral hardly counts), no type of gamertags, etc.
Sony does so much MORE for free, Nintendo needs to fix online before even considering payment options.
In my opinion, Nintendo's performance in online games is above average, less or more.
Quote from: AuraChannelerChris on May 10, 2010, 06:07:50 AM
Zero: The problem is, is that while the service is free it isn't even worth a passing glance.
AuraChannelerChris: It is, though.
Quote from: AuraChannelerChris on May 10, 2010, 10:04:46 AM
In my opinion, Nintendo's performance in online games is above average, less or more.
...Wait what are we specifically arguing? If we're going to start throwing around "In my opinion" Like this then count me out of this debate. We have to consider to what say "Average" or "Above average" means - Would it mean you'd pay for it? What does it truly bring? So forth.
"Worth a passing glance" is very debatable. I've played a ton of Brawl matches and the likes on it - It's still worth a passing glance but it depends on the specifics. If you look at a list of most popular/wii games worth getting that I posted up somewhere long ago and was lazy to look for it you begin to realize that not many of them even have online.
So it's worth a passing glance even with few.
On the other hand it looks only average simply because it's the lowest and there's not much to ground break it lower or higher when the 360 and PS3 are obviously pretty excelled in just about everything. For a good deal of time I didn't even know that the Dreamcast (Last gen console) was equivalent in online in some ways with the Wii.
That being said, If we're paying for online in it's current state from Nintendo, it's not worth it unless you're addicted to said games and there's not even much in that alley to begin with. There's Monster Hunter Tri, TvC, Brawl, Mario Kart Wii, and uh...What else? In short it's going to need a good deal of improvements to at least consider
my purchase. Sad thing is if they do it right they'll probably be similar in the cash they're banking in with Microsoft just from charging people a get-in fee.
Oh and weren't they going to make XBL free like a year ago? I forget. I just heard it around from some other people.
Thirdkoopa, I think Microsoft was considering a free "basic" package that was just online games with the minimum. Chat in games, gamertag, lobbys, etc. But none of the perks of the silver and gold memberships. I haven't heard any info on this though since the initial rumor came out a few months ago.
Sony is supposedly planning a premium membership, that will cost a fee but will have a lot more bells and whistles, and will most likely be the equivalent of XBL Gold membership, which would be okay in my book.
As far as your "passing glance" and "what is average" ideas that you sprang forth, finding in average is kind of difficult, although I'm sure we can come to some sort of median ground to be a "basic" package for online.
My opinions on Nintendo's online stems from both standalone online and comparisons to Sony and Microsoft. The comparison one is easy, Nintendo is absolutely horrendous compared to the PS3 and 360. It's not even a competition. Nintendo would be better off facing the Dreamcast in online, and even then it would face some stiff competition from the little box that almost could.
Standalone, Nintendo's online is pretty bad. Their individual downloads system is atrocious, relying on the points method, and is severely lacking in non-retro games. DLC, add-ons, demos, etc. are inherently impossible by the system itself, so I'll chalk that up to Nintendo being absurdly lazy in the hardware department.
Now the real meat, the online games. Just from the fact that it does nothing to impress is a major flaw. Friend Codes, only one way to voice chat (and a bad one at that), and basically no real interaction makes online feel less like human vs. human but more you vs. very smart PC's. It's lack of community is what really hinders it. What keeps me going online on the few PS3 games I do go online for is because of the community and such. I just don't see the point of going online for the Wii since there's no reason to. Many of the games themselves are unsound, obviously Brawl being the big example. Terrible lag, no lobbys, often dropped connections, and so on. The basic structure itself needs to be completely revised for the online to move forward. In my opinion (lol) there isn't anything salvage-able. Nintendo's complete lack of focus on it is also inherently problematic, almost as if they don't care their online is bad. To be perfectly honest, the best course of action right now would be to scrap what they have currently, and for the next home console, just blatantly copy Xbox or Playstation. Sure the Sony/Microsoft fanboys will yell copy, but at this point Nintendo fans will take any improvement, and even now a rushed copy job would be a vast improvement.
Hopefully that clears up my opinions on the matter. :P
I used to think the Wii had decent internet, but when I first got a 360 I was blown away. The monthly fee is a very fair asking price for Live. I have a PS3, but the online setup is pretty bad compared to the 360's. If Nintendo stepped up their game, I would buy 10x the Wii games that I do now.
I think the FC system that we have is nice. The Wii is supposed to be aimed at family communities, and sometimes, it aims at online games. Also, Nintendo is smart when thinking about all kinds of different games, but most of them do lack online features. I admit the Xbox and PS3 have better online (which you have to pay for, and most of their games always have to focus on something...what was it? Oh yeah, FPSs!), and the Wii Points is a bit better than having to spend money directly into games. I'm honest when I'm saying this.
Quote from: AuraChannelerChris on May 10, 2010, 06:07:50 AM
It is, though.
I think the FC system that we have is nice. The Wii is supposed to be aimed at family communities, and sometimes, it aims at online games. Also, Nintendo is smart when thinking about all kinds of different games, but most of them do lack online features. I admit the Xbox and PS3 have better online (which you have to pay for, and most of their games always have to focus on something...what was it? Oh yeah, FPSs!), and the Wii Points is a bit better than having to spend money directly into games. I'm honest when I'm saying this.
Uh, no, it isn't. There's a reason why Nintendo is almost constantly criticized for its internet service.
If you've ever experienced Steam, XBL, or PSN, then you'd KNOW that Nintendo's online service isn't worth a poop. I haven't done anything online with my Wii since Sin and Punishment was released on the VC. The last game I played online with my Wii was during the first week of Brawl's release.
You don't pay for PSN for one thing, and if you think that XBL and PSN primarily focus on shooters, you may not be incorrect as that is probably the most popular genre at the moment, but you are certainly incorrect if you think that's all the services have to offer. Hundreds upon hundreds of online games that AREN'T shooters are available through Steam, XBL, and PSN. You say Nintendo is smart for investing time in variety when the fact is, is that the other services offer
FAR more variety than the Wii has to offer.
Friend codes were probably invented by the same poop hole that came up with tripping in BrawlThe service is terrible, end of story.
Hmm, oh well, I guess I ignored a few key-points.
Let's see what Miyamoto comes up with for online. ;)
While Miyamoto has displayed his genius in the past, I feel as though it may be time for him to retire. Online just isn't his thing and Nintendo should hire some professionals. If anyone there could do it though, I guess it'd be him. So we just have to wait and see.
Hell I'd be happy if they blatantly ripped off the other services.
Quote from: Zero on May 10, 2010, 04:44:53 PM
While Miyamoto has displayed his genius in the past, I feel as though it may be time for him to retire. Online just isn't his thing and Nintendo should hire some professionals. If anyone there could do it though, I guess it'd be him. So we just have to wait and see.
Hell I'd be happy if they blatantly ripped off the other services.
I think at this point Miyamoto should stick to pure gameplay parts of game development. I'll never doubt him when it comes to how to make the game portion of the game, but he really shouldn't make any comments on stories or hardware. To be honest, he's shown that he's not all that great with that regard.
And yes, I'd be happy if they just ripped the other two off. Anything is better than what they have.
PS3 does free internet right, and 360 does internet that costs money right. Personally I'd be happy if Nintendo just gave me achievements and a way to show them off to friends.
Quote from: AuraChannelerChris on May 10, 2010, 04:26:22 PM
and the Wii Points is a bit better than having to spend money directly into games
How is there a single argument for that? If you want a single $6 download, you have to pay at least $10 for the Wii Points because only certain increments can be charged. Then you are almost guaranteed to have leftover unused/wasted points after buying absolutely anything. I'm not too familiar with how other game companies treat things like that, but directly charging the exact game's fee to a card with an optional gift card sort of thing (while Nintendo has
only gift cards) sounds like it's probably about right.
This thread is too much extremist-filled. Chris has a bizarrely strong like of Nintendo's online and Zero+Nayr both absolutely hate everything about it. I'm personally not into online gaming much, rarely going beyond something like a Pokemon trade.
I'd be happy if they just established some decent console-wide buddy list system to replace game-specific friend codes and allowed random non-FC matches more (like, Pokemon Battle Revolution does that nicely, but no other Pokemon games feature random online matches for some reason). Maybe some extra fancy things that don't directly affect gameplay can be premiums, I don't care.
Quote from: bluaki on May 10, 2010, 10:26:30 PM
and Zero+Nayr both absolutely hate everything about it
Not sure about Nayr, but the one thing I adore about Nintendo's service is the VC. Plus, ton of the Wiiware games are definitely quality games. I wish I could try and buy more games on the service to be honest.
It doesn't make up for the fact that the service is terrible though.
Quote from: Cornwad on May 10, 2010, 11:53:23 AM
I would buy 10x the Wii games that I do now.
See that's another thing.
While the online games with it have shown a dedicated group willing to make the most of it that doesn't stop the fact there's few of them. Now that can partly be blamed on the actual games themselves but there was still some room for potential like NSMBWii or Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn.
As for this argument Nayr it's important to reach middle ground on these terms or then we're debating nothing. It's for sure worth a passing glance - A good ordeal of people go on sites like say, All Is Brawl, then yes it's still worth a passing glance. Have you used your Wii online before? Yes. This doesn't even have to be debated and it was a ridiculous point (Or an over-exaggeration) to bring up. However "Average" and "Above Average" are different stories.
Here's another interesting point however: PSN is free as well outside of extra features. Wii is free. The above average medium at the very least is PSN with this gen thus the Wii can't be "Above Average"
For what Nintendo will do, like hell, blatantly ripping off is better than making us voice chat that uses what essentially is another sensor bar.
But for something unique onto discussion why not have "Guests" (Whether you can register for free or not depends) have Friend-Codes, thus for parents who want to be safe, their kid still stays completely safe or some poop like that. Then for the people who do register they can have all those features and poop won't hit the fan for Nintendo if they do anything stupid.
I doubt Nintendo would think up that but I still find the idea interesting.
And I'm glad they're at least doing something about it. They're at least looking into options which is something.
Right, I have $4.00's worth of Wii points that I had for over 2 years...
2 YEARS!!! WTF am I gonna do with that? 0_O
And all the VC Games they do have available I am not even Close to being interested in.
The games that I want to replay, I haven't even seen yet... and I don't know if I ever will- that sucks... But that's my take on the VC. Me having SSB and Star Fox 64 is really the only thing worth being on my Wii.
Anyway- I like no,...... I LOVE Nintendo as much as the next person, but it makes me so irritated when (as a CUSTOMER), I buy games from Nintendo and I'm just not happy with it.
I want to say, everything Nayr says is true, as well as what Zero said.
When compared to other systems (PS 3 and X Box) Nintendo just...... falls short...not it fails. There really is No comparison, and I don't understand the reason why.
Nintendo has been around For Years.... they as video game developers should "KNOW" how to appease it's consumers and give them what they want. Surly they see the success of X Box and PS 3....why not follow? OR somehow do something better then what they do...to stand above them?
It's so horrible, they are just "NOW" realizing that they fall short when it comes to Online features/games etc...
You know why, Because they lack FOCUS, in what True Gamers/Fans of Nintendo Want.
When I mean by this, I mean they (ever since the WII came out) focused on these Non gamers (Yes, I'm bringing back this argument).
Honestly---
Non gamers don't worry about online, or they wouldn't use it. You think an 77 year old man who plays "wii bowling/tennis" is gonna worry about playing ONLINE?
Hell no, why would he? There is no need.
Honestly from this persona, Nintendo just Ignored (for the most part), true gamers who want the most out of Nintendo and just focused on bringing back people who have No knowledge about video games, or stopped playing video games in general.
As a business, this was Genius- but at the same time you sacrificed a good amount of Nintendo Fan's who wanted good Quality games. Games that could go online with NO kind of issues what so ever. One that can compete against 2 other video game systems who obviously had Great Online from the Get go.
It's common knowledge that Nintendo dropped the ball on it's Online gaming (Again, - the game cube should of somehow gone online).
At this time, Nintendo might as well TRY (and I pray they try really hard), focus on a GREAT Online on their NEXT Console system. If they make the next console system online feature just like the other video game systems, then nobody would complain, at least not THIS Much.
SSBB- Is The most played game I have on my Wii, and it's the ONLY Game I go online, and *laughs* I have No need to even describe to you how SSBB's online feature is. What's REALLY bad, is that it's gotten worst. Why would it be getting worst? I don't understand. I thought with time, all this lag poop and random Disconnections would be fixed and over with. Nope, I still can't even play with my FRIENDS from Online. I can't join their room and they can't join mine. Nintendo, explain why the intercourse y'all haven't fixed this by now?
I dare somebody to even try to Defend this, I will tear them apart.
-moving on...
People here are Upset about Nintendo's actions because they want the best from Nintendo. Like me, they love Nintendo, but we are just tired of this B.S. that they have been giving us for over 2 years.
This is the result of unhappy/unsatisfied customers, and you all very know well that "we" aren't the only ones complaining.
I'm still waiting for over 3, no 6 years for Nintendo to get their poop together.
Lazy bastards.
*Oh, and yes.. Get Rid of Friend Codes...........
That's why Little children have Parents who should MONITOR What their kids should play.
The system it self should not be held responsible.
Damn....
Quote from: StarWindWizard7 on May 14, 2010, 01:32:45 PM
*Oh, and yes.. Get Rid of Friend Codes...........
That's why Little children have Parents who should MONITOR What their kids should play.
The system it self should not be held responsible.
Damn....
Quote from: Zero on May 10, 2010, 04:34:08 PM
Friend codes were probably invented by the same poop hole that came up with tripping in Brawl
Quote from: bluaki on May 10, 2010, 10:26:30 PM
How is there a single argument for that? If you want a single $6 download, you have to pay at least $10 for the Wii Points because only certain increments can be charged. Then you are almost guaranteed to have leftover unused/wasted points after buying absolutely anything.
Dude, that's what
all of the 3 Big gaming companies do.
QuoteI'm not too familiar with how other game companies treat things like that, but directly charging the exact game's fee to a card with an optional gift card sort of thing (while Nintendo has only gift cards) sounds like it's probably about right.
You can use credit cards, too. Just that nobody ever uses that .-.
QuoteThis thread is too much extremist-filled. Chris has a bizarrely strong like of Nintendo's online and Zero+Nayr both absolutely hate everything about it. I'm personally not into online gaming much, rarely going beyond something like a Pokemon trade.
...And there's my entire opinion on the subject.
kthxbai
agreed that their online could be much better. paying for it even if it was slightly improved would be bullpoop.
I wouldn't know about this, because my Wii refuses to update saying it can't access the Internet, even though I was just looking at the Internet Channel a second ago. The few WiiWare games I want will go undownloaded until I figure out how to fix it.
Besides, what games are there to play? Brawl, Tatsunoko vs. Capcom, and...Pokemon Battle Revolution?
Really, the Wii should have been more powerful so developers would become interested in making more than the same Wii Sports clones and ports of PS2 games. Remember Project HAMMER and Winter? Where are those? Seriously, the hardware is the reason the software doesn't run well. Hard to make a game that sells in 2010 with technology used a generation before, unless you are Nintendo, Sega, Capcom, or any other Japanese development studio, which have pretty much got the Wii covered with decent software.