For the love of god.

[tibar7]

ridley and krystal are only 2 of the very few characters tahat deserved to be in that didn't make it. they tried to get Geno but the people who owned Geno were being stupid.

ganondorf sould be classified as a semi clone since he has more different moves than u think.

Geno was going to be the WTF character, but since they couldn't get him in they did ROB instead.

not being able to do the nana-popo swich isn't the end of the world.

melee was the very first time ridley was in a 3D game. Sakurai graphiced him his own way. in Metroid Prime Corruption Ridley is 5 times bigger than Samus. Ridley would have made a good playable, but he is truly meant to be a boss. Yes Bowser is a boss too, but he is not nearly as detailed as Ridley.

yes, FE lost a character, but they also got a replacement, so no, they id not really get the shaft

nintendo characters is what the game is about. that's why Mario, Pikachu, Kirby, and Link are on the cover. Sakurai didn't put more than 2 third parties in cuz he didn't want to upset the people opposed to third parties that bad.

since stage builder is probably the reason for the first delay, it was obviously extremely hard to make.  they didn't make as much as you expected but they perfected what they did do which is where it counts.

the stages are  perfect. there's a great selection and you can even creat your own stage if you don't like any of them.

yes charcter or stages would have been better, but they take a while to make, and there's enough of stages already. characters are such a hassle since they need to get permission from the peole that own their rights. we're even lucky we got as much characters as we did.

the music is incredible. u can even unlock music too by collecting CD's.

the game already is spectacular. no matter how good a game can be there is always going to be critic saying it should be better.

Krystal would have been an infinitely better choice than both Falco and wolf, and everyone knows it.  Metroid deserved another rep by this point, and didn't get one.

Tell me his different moves then.  just because they look different doesn't mean they don't do the same thing.  His special moves are the same with the exception of side B, and it still keeps it's old animation until the end.

I never said the nana-popo switch was the end of the world.  I said that's something they could have improved on.

No.

Metroid Prime was supposed to come out for the N64.  It took far too long, so it didn't.  Ridley had 3d proportions and sizes from Metroid Prime before the gamecube was even out.

He could have been both.  just like bowser.

FE got the shaft more than any other series except for Mario (-1 reps), but that was made up by the stages & other stuff that mario got.

the amount of people he would have gained by adding another third party would have far outweighed the amount of people disliking it for having third parties.

they did perfect what they did do, but it wouldn't have been that hard to add backgrounds... even to be able to import simple backgrounds.  you could do that on Animal Crossing (a different concept, but generally the same).

I didn't say the stages were bad.  I said that the stages were great.

wouldn't you rather have 400 less trophies and mewtwo in instead?  They have all the rights to Mewtwo.  I'm not a huge fan, but they had certainly already started on him, as they did with the rest of the "forbidden 7".

wasn't saying the music was bad.

and I'm one of those critics.  there are small things here and there that they could have done to make it incredible, but they chose not to in order to release the game earlier.  It looks rushed.  I'll be enjoying it for years to come regardless, but the fact remains that it looks rushed.

jono2 u need to get your faqs straight.

krystal is not as important as falco are wolf. falco is a well repected veteran and has been in Star Fox from the very start. Wolf is a villian and the game needed more villians as playables. They may have not put Krystal in cuz it would upset the slippy and peppy fans.

about Metroid: Ridley was the only considerable choice, but bfore they realized that they had already made him a boss in the SSE. Hey at least they put in Zerosuit Samus to try to make up for it.

I've seen Ganondorf fight and his standard moves have drastically changed. Just watch him fight on youtube.

I don't even care about the ice climber swap. hey they were almost kicked out so I'm thankful they're in at all.

yes before the gamecube came out ridley's 3D form had porportions by his creators and stuff like you said, but melee was the actual firt game where he was 3D. And who graphiced him in melee? Sakurai, not he creator of Metroid and Ridley. And don't tell me the creators of characters go to Sakurai's company and graphic the character themselves cuz they don't. If you hadn't noticed, Sakurai graphics thecharacters better then the creators do in their games. For instance you notice the detailed stitching in Mario's overalls in Galaxy. But you sure do in Brawl.

yes Ridley could have been both like Bowser but he isn't. Everyone knows that Bowser is a playable in almost every multi-player Mario game not counting co-op or Mario Parties. Ridley was only meant to be a boss. Even though he might have made a cool playable I just can't imagine it.

FE didn't really get the shaft in this game. Their number of reps stayed the same and they actually got their own stage in this game unlike melee. and don't tell me that Temple was a FE stage cuz it was only Zelda. It was detailed with triforce markings all over.

yes, he would have gained more fans for adding another 3rd party but he would have lost some fans too. he really didn't want to upset people. that's why he kept Mr. G & W and Ice Climbers and replaced young link with toon link to credit wind waker.

he didn't want to spend precious time adding backgrounds when he had stages and characters to finish. He was pressed for time.

they took mewtwo out since he was one of the least poular veterans. I think lots of people will like Lucario better, although I miss mewtwo.

and the trophies are fun to collect. they're easier and faster to make than characters, so why not make a lot.

how can the game be rushed if they've been working on it more than twice as long as melee? I recall Sakurai felt rushed making melee, so that's why he took his time to make Brawl better. He also fixed amny gameplay flaws. If it was rushed it would have a lot more characters but poor graphics, gameplay and stuff like that. So no the game was not rushed. it's the best game I'll ever play I know that for sure.

[Tupin]

"He didn't want to spend precious time adding backgrounds when he had stages and characters to finish. He was pressed for time."

"how can the game be rushed if they've been working on it more than twice as long as melee?

Because even you said he was pressed for time.

He wasn't, he just didn't add enough good stuff for most people.

[tibar7]

"He didn't want to spend precious time adding backgrounds when he had stages and characters to finish. He was pressed for time."

"how can the game be rushed if they've been working on it more than twice as long as melee?

Because even you said he was pressed for time.

He wasn't, he just didn't add enough good stuff for most people.

being pressed for time and rushing are two different things. if you guys were true smash fans you'd be defending the game and the creator like I am. instead ur complaining about minor things like backgrounds and too much trophies.

[Tupin]

"He didn't want to spend precious time adding backgrounds when he had stages and characters to finish. He was pressed for time."

"how can the game be rushed if they've been working on it more than twice as long as melee?

Because even you said he was pressed for time.

He wasn't, he just didn't add enough good stuff for most people.

being pressed for time and rushing are two different things. if you guys were true smash fans you'd be defending the game and the creator like I am. instead ur complaining about minor things like backgrounds and too much trophies.

Well I've been complaining about clones (which he promised wouldn't be in the game) and the roster size ( Sakurai wanted at least 40 characters.)

[Triforceman22]

"He didn't want to spend precious time adding backgrounds when he had stages and characters to finish. He was pressed for time."

"how can the game be rushed if they've been working on it more than twice as long as melee?

Because even you said he was pressed for time.

He wasn't, he just didn't add enough good stuff for most people.

being pressed for time and rushing are two different things. if you guys were true smash fans you'd be defending the game and the creator like I am. instead ur complaining about minor things like backgrounds and too much trophies.

Well I've been complaining about clones (which he promised wouldn't be in the game) and the roster size ( Sakurai wanted at least 40 characters.)

well, technically, we got 39 characters....
so yeah...

[tibar7]

"He didn't want to spend precious time adding backgrounds when he had stages and characters to finish. He was pressed for time."

"how can the game be rushed if they've been working on it more than twice as long as melee?

Because even you said he was pressed for time.

He wasn't, he just didn't add enough good stuff for most people.

being pressed for time and rushing are two different things. if you guys were true smash fans you'd be defending the game and the creator like I am. instead ur complaining about minor things like backgrounds and too much trophies.

Well I've been complaining about clones (which he promised wouldn't be in the game) and the roster size ( Sakurai wanted at least 40 characters.)

he didn't add more characters so the game wouldn't be rushed. besides, he turned those clones into semi clones, so the roster will seem even bigger not to mention transformations and PT. the only real complete clones are Lucas and toon link. Sakurai didn't have much of a choice when making Lucas a clone since he is a PK user like Ness. Even Toon Link has differences with his attack stlye and speed. the increase of charcters and the dcloning to semi cloning will makee the roster seem so much better.

[Jono2]

jono2 u need to get your faqs straight.

krystal is not as important as falco are wolf. falco is a well repected veteran and has been in Star Fox from the very start. Wolf is a villian and the game needed more villians as playables. They may have not put Krystal in cuz it would upset the slippy and peppy fans.

about Metroid: Ridley was the only considerable choice, but bfore they realized that they had already made him a boss in the SSE. Hey at least they put in Zerosuit Samus to try to make up for it.

I've seen Ganondorf fight and his standard moves have drastically changed. Just watch him fight on youtube.

I don't even care about the ice climber swap. hey they were almost kicked out so I'm thankful they're in at all.

yes before the gamecube came out ridley's 3D form had porportions by his creators and stuff like you said, but melee was the actual firt game where he was 3D. And who graphiced him in melee? Sakurai, not he creator of Metroid and Ridley. And don't tell me the creators of characters go to Sakurai's company and graphic the character themselves cuz they don't. If you hadn't noticed, Sakurai graphics thecharacters better then the creators do in their games. For instance you notice the detailed stitching in Mario's overalls in Galaxy. But you sure do in Brawl.

yes Ridley could have been both like Bowser but he isn't. Everyone knows that Bowser is a playable in almost every multi-player Mario game not counting co-op or Mario Parties. Ridley was only meant to be a boss. Even though he might have made a cool playable I just can't imagine it.

FE didn't really get the shaft in this game. Their number of reps stayed the same and they actually got their own stage in this game unlike melee. and don't tell me that Temple was a FE stage cuz it was only Zelda. It was detailed with triforce markings all over.

yes, he would have gained more fans for adding another 3rd party but he would have lost some fans too. he really didn't want to upset people. that's why he kept Mr. G & W and Ice Climbers and replaced young link with toon link to credit wind waker.

he didn't want to spend precious time adding backgrounds when he had stages and characters to finish. He was pressed for time.

they took mewtwo out since he was one of the least poular veterans. I think lots of people will like Lucario better, although I miss mewtwo.

and the trophies are fun to collect. they're easier and faster to make than characters, so why not make a lot.

how can the game be rushed if they've been working on it more than twice as long as melee? I recall Sakurai felt rushed making melee, so that's why he took his time to make Brawl better. He also fixed amny gameplay flaws. If it was rushed it would have a lot more characters but poor graphics, gameplay and stuff like that. So no the game was not rushed. it's the best game I'll ever play I know that for sure.

you need to learn to spell, man.

falco shouldn't have even been in melee.  the series wasn't important, and remains that way with mediocre games that don't sell very well.  SF64 was a long time ago, and there hasn't been a near equal quality title since.

Yes, we need more villains.  so why take a space animal without a moveset and give him a similar one to two other characters, with the same final smash, when you can put in a fire-breathing air-raiding clawing tail-pogoing dragon?  Ridley is far more iconic than Wolf will ever be.  More people are mad about ROB than would be if Krystal had replaced Wolf.  that's not a valid argument.

ZSS was only there for sex appeal.  She's still the exact same character as samus, even though she has a good moveset and looks like she'll be awesome to play as.

standard moves.  who cares?  the specials are what set them apart.  The fact remains that his moves are still based upon a futuristic Formula Zero racer.  Put in the gosh darn sword or some magic.

It's not about what you care, it's about what I care, because I'm the one who this argument is based upon.  there was no reason to remove that except for the fact that they were lazy about it.

I can't read the next paragraph.  use spellchecker and check your grammar.  it's horrible.

It's easy to imagine if you played Metroid Prime through to the end, or even metroid prime 3.  just imagine a smaller version.  how about super metroid?  that would have worked just as well, as would have zero mission.  Hell, they could have given him moves from Zero Mission's ending ridley fight, mecha ridley.  that's a grounded ridley fight that would work.

All FE got was a new stage.  every single other franchise gained much more than that (including a representative) with the exception of the retros & mario, which got replaced by having large amounts of stages.

Why would he lose people from adding a third party?  That makes no sense at all.

Yes.

He was pressed for time.

rushed.

he didn't have stages and characters to finish.  He had trophies to finish instead.  If he was busy working on characters, the forbidden 7 would be in instead of the 600 gosh darn trophies.  I don't care about trophies. :|

Trophies are fun to collect, yes.  are they more fun than an extra character?  NO.


It was rushed.  face it.

Look at all of the glitches in the game found thus far.  despite the havok engine, we still have a character that can hover in the air, recoveries rendered useless by a lame game mechanic, and knockbacks that throw way too far, in the wrong direction.  The testers didn't have enough time, obviously.

If it wasn't rushed, the forbidden 7 would be in the game.

if it wasn't rushed, there would be more backgrounds, there would be the ability to add in music into the game.


if it wasn't rushed, it wouldn't look rushed to the casual eye, and that's what I have.

[Jono2]

"He didn't want to spend precious time adding backgrounds when he had stages and characters to finish. He was pressed for time."

"how can the game be rushed if they've been working on it more than twice as long as melee?

Because even you said he was pressed for time.

He wasn't, he just didn't add enough good stuff for most people.

being pressed for time and rushing are two different things. if you guys were true smash fans you'd be defending the game and the creator like I am. instead ur complaining about minor things like backgrounds and too much trophies.

what?

true smash fans want their game to be as fleshed out as possible.

a true sheep is one who blindly defends their nintendo gods, and that is what you're describing.

[StarWindWizard7]

"He didn't want to spend precious time adding backgrounds when he had stages and characters to finish. He was pressed for time."

"how can the game be rushed if they've been working on it more than twice as long as melee?

Because even you said he was pressed for time.

He wasn't, he just didn't add enough good stuff for most people.

being pressed for time and rushing are two different things. if you guys were true smash fans you'd be defending the game and the creator like I am. instead ur complaining about minor things like backgrounds and too much trophies.

Tsk,

Chill out on that Statment there.

It's because people want SSBB so much that they complain.
If you CAN understand where they are coming from.

You have those who appreciate the work of Sakurai and everything he's done, also note
that they look forward to this game more then anything.

THEN, you have those who Want SSBB just as much but they feel that SSBB could of/should of
been better then what it's made out to be.
They see what SSBB is made out of and they can easily detect and say what should be in and should be out.

And honestly, if SSBB had more of what Jono stated and a few others, then honestly, SSBB would be
even more well wanted then what it is now.

Yes, SSBB is great and all of that but it could of been Better one way or another things did not have to turn
out the way it did.








**_Just cause people complain about SSBB Does NOT mean that they want it less then Anybody Else_**

[Macawmoses]

You guys need to take a breather...seriously.

Anyways, I foresaw them doing this, the usual underhyping by Nintendo.

[Jono2]

**_Just cause people complain about SSBB Does NOT mean that they want it less then Anybody Else_**

exactly.  I'm getting this game anyways, because it's going to be a great game, but the thing is, it just could have been so much better, and I'm disappointed that it wasn't.  Why not fill the disk to the brim?  they could have taken out the lame "masterpieces" that are just selling points for VC games (though I know that it will be appreciated regardless).  but I don't see why there are so many trophies and stickers, but at the same time less characters and more clones/semiclones than we were expecting.

[StarWindWizard7]

You guys need to take a breather...seriously.

Anyways, I foresaw them doing this, the usual underhyping by Nintendo.

As long as they don't go insulting eachother, I think that Nsiders talking about it
to get it out of there system, to let there opinions be known is the best way to handle things
on here instead of keeping it inside.


Unless somebody makes a debate thread or something. :P

[Dei Enyt]

Geno was going to be the WTF character, but since they couldn't get him in they did ROB instead.

Just keep telling yourself that.  >_>

[tollhouse2006]

If you're a complainer for Brawl read my post on page 4. 

[Rius]

you need to learn to spell, man.

falco shouldn't have even been in melee.  the series wasn't important, and remains that way with mediocre games that don't sell very well.  SF64 was a long time ago, and there hasn't been a near equal quality title since.

Yes, we need more villains.  so why take a space animal without a moveset and give him a similar one to two other characters, with the same final smash, when you can put in a fire-breathing air-raiding clawing tail-pogoing dragon?  Ridley is far more iconic than Wolf will ever be.  More people are mad about ROB than would be if Krystal had replaced Wolf.  that's not a valid argument.

ZSS was only there for sex appeal.  She's still the exact same character as samus, even though she has a good moveset and looks like she'll be awesome to play as.

standard moves.  who cares?  the specials are what set them apart.  The fact remains that his moves are still based upon a futuristic Formula Zero racer.  Put in the gosh darn sword or some magic.

It's not about what you care, it's about what I care, because I'm the one who this argument is based upon.  there was no reason to remove that except for the fact that they were lazy about it.

I can't read the next paragraph.  use spellchecker and check your grammar.  it's horrible.

It's easy to imagine if you played Metroid Prime through to the end, or even metroid prime 3.  just imagine a smaller version.  how about super metroid?  that would have worked just as well, as would have zero mission.  Hell, they could have given him moves from Zero Mission's ending ridley fight, mecha ridley.  that's a grounded ridley fight that would work.

All FE got was a new stage.  every single other franchise gained much more than that (including a representative) with the exception of the retros & mario, which got replaced by having large amounts of stages.

Why would he lose people from adding a third party?  That makes no sense at all.

Yes.

He was pressed for time.

rushed.

he didn't have stages and characters to finish.  He had trophies to finish instead.  If he was busy working on characters, the forbidden 7 would be in instead of the 600 gosh darn trophies.  I don't care about trophies. :|

Trophies are fun to collect, yes.  are they more fun than an extra character?  NO.


It was rushed.  face it.

Look at all of the glitches in the game found thus far.  despite the havok engine, we still have a character that can hover in the air, recoveries rendered useless by a lame game mechanic, and knockbacks that throw way too far, in the wrong direction.  The testers didn't have enough time, obviously.

If it wasn't rushed, the forbidden 7 would be in the game.

if it wasn't rushed, there would be more backgrounds, there would be the ability to add in music into the game.


if it wasn't rushed, it wouldn't look rushed to the casual eye, and that's what I have.

Arguments over which series are rep worthy are always terrible as it is mostly based upon opinion. Are you disappointed with the roster? That's fine, but arguing over something as abstract as where the characters come from is a waste of time. Even Sakurai discussed character selection as if it was world inclusive, so it was more of a "Who is more deserving, Samus or Ridley?" than "Who is more deserving, Ridley or Olimar?" Also, Dr. Mario was never expected to return by anybody... well, except for a handful of morons in his cult following.

Zero Suit Samus is there for sex-appeal, but right afterwards you admitted she was a good character. There's no room for complaint.

If this argument is centered around you, then state so more explicitly so everyone will stop wasting their time. Also, Ice Climber switching was just an Easter Egg. Easter is over now. So sad, but trivial.

Fire Emblem was decked, I assume, as to not alienate the Westerners. Sakurai said from the beginning he was against filling the game with Japan-exclusives, so it is not a surprise.

There are quite a few people who were always against the idea of third parties, some of them working on the game. Capcom, Hudson, and Namco did not come forward, and Geno is a legal nightmare.

Trophies are relatively cheap when considering memory, and I doubt Sakurai worked on the trophies much. Characters and stages are seperate issues. Also, are you centralizing the argument?

Sakurai admits Brawl was rushed, but I think the online has more to do with that than anything else. Glitches happen, the "forbidden 7" were most likely unobtainable or relatively insignificant to their series, backgrounds are nice, but you shouldn't be looking back there anyway, and there are about 308 songs by world famous composers, which Sakurai is forcing you to listen to. You're comparing two different beasts altogether.

I hardly doubt most people would say it looked rushed, and you do not have a casual eye if you could even care to make any argum- things presented so far.