MK Banned? Now featuring: Arguements about competitive play.

[Dawei]

I kind of want to respond to Tollhouse's ludicrous statements, but by looking at his response to hta's, it wouldn't even be worth it.

I will say one thing though. If you are in a tournament, why would you play "fair"? Are you really so dumb as to blow money just because you don't want to be "cheap"? If you are, then you shouldn't even be in this conversation, since you have absolutely no grasp on competitive smash.

I would of thought it would be more fun if everyone played fair. And you can be competive with other people that play fair too. Being competive doesn't nesecarly mean you have to be at the top level. Hardcore players are not the only competive ones. If all you do is rely on techs and chain grabs and poop to win then it'll probably make the game stale. I don't really care about tiers either. No one can tell me what characters I can't be good with. Sure its a bit harder to be good with Jigglypuff than Meta Knight but all it takes is extra practice.

Would you really rather play "fairly" than make money? Everyone else has covered the "only at your level" stuff, so I'll just touch on one other point.

Characters only have so much potential. It's the way they are made. The only way characters could be completely even is if they all had the exact same everything. Movement, height, moveset, weight, every single thing. Then they can be even. But as they aren't, characters do have advantages, and no matter how much you practice, no matter how hard you try, the other person still is more likely to win because they are simply using a better character. Now, I'm sure a bunch of dumb people will say "well i've beaten an mk b4 with ganundawrf, so eets posyble". That argument is completely invalid because both you and your opponent probably suck. I'm not sure why we are even discussing tiers at this point though, since long ago they were proven to be real. Educate yourself here. If you actually read the entire thing and can understand what it says, you shouldn't have any more doubt in your mind.

[FruitFlow]

No one EVER said Ike was broken. Only retarded scrubs who played with items on high on stages like big blue thought that. Everyone who ever went to tourneys sat there and lol'ing at the people who thought Ike was good.

I was actually talking about the people at Smash World Forums, a long time ago.

They would say crap like, "Ike is broken because he can KO at 20% damage", or "He's broken because he has an abusive Up Special".
And other loads of crap.

[Dawei]

No one EVER said Ike was broken. Only retarded scrubs who played with items on high on stages like big blue thought that. Everyone who ever went to tourneys sat there and lol'ing at the people who thought Ike was good.

I was actually talking about the people at Smash World Forums, a long time ago.

They would say crap like, "Ike is broken because he can KO at 20% damage", or "He's broken because he has an abusive Up Special".
And other loads of crap.

Clearly, you don't understand sarcasm. And if they were truly being serious, it was still scrubs. Just being on swf doesn't make you knowledge/good.

[FruitFlow]

No one EVER said Ike was broken. Only retarded scrubs who played with items on high on stages like big blue thought that. Everyone who ever went to tourneys sat there and lol'ing at the people who thought Ike was good.

I was actually talking about the people at Smash World Forums, a long time ago.

They would say crap like, "Ike is broken because he can KO at 20% damage", or "He's broken because he has an abusive Up Special".
And other loads of crap.

Clearly, you don't understand sarcasm. And if they were truly being serious, it was still scrubs. Just being on swf doesn't make you knowledge/good.

Trust me, it was not sarcasm.
As you just stated, they're most likely retarded scrubs. So I'll leave it at that.


Anyways, why is everyone complaining about "fairness" all of a sudden?

[Nayrman]

No one EVER said Ike was broken. Only retarded scrubs who played with items on high on stages like big blue thought that. Everyone who ever went to tourneys sat there and lol'ing at the people who thought Ike was good.

I was actually talking about the people at Smash World Forums, a long time ago.

They would say crap like, "Ike is broken because he can KO at 20% damage", or "He's broken because he has an abusive Up Special".
And other loads of crap.

Clearly, you don't understand sarcasm. And if they were truly being serious, it was still scrubs. Just being on swf doesn't make you knowledge/good.

Trust me, it was not sarcasm.
As you just stated, they're most likely retarded scrubs. So I'll leave it at that.


Anyways, why is everyone complaining about "fairness"?

Because when compared to smash 1 and Melee this game's balancing for characters (and stages) is appalling...

[tollhouse2006]

well of course pros play unfairly in tournaments to win, you don't need to tell me that.  I'd do the same.  i just play fair with friends that's all.  And upon further thought you guys bring a good point in how brawl's roster isn't as balanced as melee's. 

[FruitFlow]

No one EVER said Ike was broken. Only retarded scrubs who played with items on high on stages like big blue thought that. Everyone who ever went to tourneys sat there and lol'ing at the people who thought Ike was good.

I was actually talking about the people at Smash World Forums, a long time ago.

They would say crap like, "Ike is broken because he can KO at 20% damage", or "He's broken because he has an abusive Up Special".
And other loads of crap.

Clearly, you don't understand sarcasm. And if they were truly being serious, it was still scrubs. Just being on swf doesn't make you knowledge/good.

Trust me, it was not sarcasm.
As you just stated, they're most likely retarded scrubs. So I'll leave it at that.


Anyways, why is everyone complaining about "fairness"?

Because when compared to smash 1 and Melee this game's balancing for characters (and stages) is appalling...

Oh, yeah.
Most definitely.
Compared to the others, this game went wrong in many ways I can't even explain right now.

And I'm not trying to funny with that comment.

[tibar21]

I kind of want to respond to Tollhouse's ludicrous statements, but by looking at his response to hta's, it wouldn't even be worth it.

I will say one thing though. If you are in a tournament, why would you play "fair"? Are you really so dumb as to blow money just because you don't want to be "cheap"? If you are, then you shouldn't even be in this conversation, since you have absolutely no grasp on competitive smash.

I would of thought it would be more fun if everyone played fair. And you can be competive with other people that play fair too. Being competive doesn't nesecarly mean you have to be at the top level. Hardcore players are not the only competive ones. If all you do is rely on techs and chain grabs and s*** to win then it'll probably make the game stale. I don't really care about tiers either. No one can tell me what characters I can't be good with. Sure its a bit harder to be good with Jigglypuff than Meta Knight but all it takes is extra practice.

Would you really rather play "fairly" than make money? Everyone else has covered the "only at your level" stuff, so I'll just touch on one other point.

Characters only have so much potential. It's the way they are made. The only way characters could be completely even is if they all had the exact same everything. Movement, height, moveset, weight, every single thing. Then they can be even. But as they aren't, characters do have advantages, and no matter how much you practice, no matter how hard you try, the other person still is more likely to win because they are simply using a better character. Now, I'm sure a bunch of dumb people will say "well i've beaten an mk b4 with ganundawrf, so eets posyble". That argument is completely invalid because both you and your opponent probably suck. I'm not sure why we are even discussing tiers at this point though, since long ago they were proven to be real. Educate yourself here. If you actually read the entire thing and can understand what it says, you shouldn't have any more doubt in your mind.

this thing you said on that tier thread perfectly illustrates my point about the Jigglypuff Meta Knight thing.

6. "In Smash, any character can win in any matchup if you are smarter and better than your opponents by a wide enough margin. So keep playing to win and work hard to be the best player you can be, regardless of which character you use."

[Red]

I kind of want to respond to Tollhouse's ludicrous statements, but by looking at his response to hta's, it wouldn't even be worth it.

I will say one thing though. If you are in a tournament, why would you play "fair"? Are you really so dumb as to blow money just because you don't want to be "cheap"? If you are, then you shouldn't even be in this conversation, since you have absolutely no grasp on competitive smash.

I would of thought it would be more fun if everyone played fair. And you can be competive with other people that play fair too. Being competive doesn't nesecarly mean you have to be at the top level. Hardcore players are not the only competive ones. If all you do is rely on techs and chain grabs and s*** to win then it'll probably make the game stale. I don't really care about tiers either. No one can tell me what characters I can't be good with. Sure its a bit harder to be good with Jigglypuff than Meta Knight but all it takes is extra practice.

Would you really rather play "fairly" than make money? Everyone else has covered the "only at your level" stuff, so I'll just touch on one other point.

Characters only have so much potential. It's the way they are made. The only way characters could be completely even is if they all had the exact same everything. Movement, height, moveset, weight, every single thing. Then they can be even. But as they aren't, characters do have advantages, and no matter how much you practice, no matter how hard you try, the other person still is more likely to win because they are simply using a better character. Now, I'm sure a bunch of dumb people will say "well i've beaten an mk b4 with ganundawrf, so eets posyble". That argument is completely invalid because both you and your opponent probably suck. I'm not sure why we are even discussing tiers at this point though, since long ago they were proven to be real. Educate yourself here. If you actually read the entire thing and can understand what it says, you shouldn't have any more doubt in your mind.

this thing you said on that tier thread perfectly illustrates my point about the Jigglypuff Meta Knight thing.

6. "In Smash, any character can win in any matchup if you are smarter and better than your opponents by a wide enough margin. So keep playing to win and work hard to be the best player you can be, regardless of which character you use."

But here's what you're missing. If you try to fight MK with Diddy or Snake, that margin does not have to be that big.

If you're trying to beat MK with Jiggs, that margin has to be HUGE. It makes it a whole lot harder.

[Nayrman]

is the tier list the only thing you guys use to judge match ups?

There is a reason it's the official tier list ya know X_X;;

[tollhouse2006]

is the tier list the only thing you guys use to judge match ups?

There is a reason it's the official tier list ya know X_X;;

Do you have a link to it? 

[Dawei]

I have a thread floated here.

[tollhouse2006]

I have a thread floated here.

How did I not notice that?  I should be coming her more often.  But this board gets boring quickly due to the low amount of activity

[tibar21]

the tier list lacks a lot of sense to me. its based on techs, spamming, and chaingrabs. otherwise Dedede would be at the bottom.

[HTA!]

the tier list lacks a lot of sense to me. its based on techs and chaingrabs. otherwise Dedede would be at the bottom.

He's a damage tank.
Relatively fast smashes for their power.
Amazing projectile spamming.
2 multi-hit aerials
Potentially game-breaking technique (goon farming)
Long reach (F-tilt for example)
Recovery has huge vertical distance, even with its unreliability horizontally.
And then chains + infinite's

The tier is based on more than just that he has a chain grab.
SBR isn't that shallow... hopefully. D: