Tiers Exist. Fact.

[Dawei]

another fact is that players are better than other players, and probably the very best dont go professional and keep it to themselves (not knowing they have so much potential)

You're not going to become the best playing with computers and your same group of friends all the time. You have to play with good players, which, in turn, will reveal your awesomeness to a wider amount of people making you famous eventually.

What if you don't wanna be famous? What if you're shy and don't want to be seen as "the world's greatest Smasher"? Is it suddenly so wrong to play Smash for fun?

As I said, your not going to become the best by playing "for fun" with your little group of friends who like to go to Hyrule Temple over and over again and play FFAs.  You have to play with other competitive people to get better.

Have you considered that some people see being the "best" at a video game as a worthwhile accomplishment?  Sure, I could sit on my behind playing video games all day to perfect my technique with a certain character or learn how to master some glitches, but I don't.  I'd be giving up more important things in exchange for playing a dumb game for that amount of time.  Heck, I've been playing an hour or two at most on a daily basis.  Why just that amount of time?

Because I don't care if I improve my technique or not.  I don't care if I'm not the best smasher in the world.  I don't care if there's money prizes for MLG tournaments or whatever.  I'm more concerned about having fun when I play the game instead of following some stupid made-up rules.

This isn't a matter of if you care about being the best or not. This is in Smash All-together, who the best is, and what you need to do to be able to become the best. You won't be the best if you just play casually. Besides, playing intense matches and practicing your technique can be fun. That all just comes down to preference.

[Driftr]

You know, I'm not denying this, but I think it also depends heavily on the skill of the player.  for example, I play as Bowser quite often, and although he's bottom-tier, I win the majority of my matches with him.

[Jono2]

You know, I'm not denying this, but I think it also depends heavily on the skill of the player.  for example, I play as Bowser quite often, and although he's bottom-tier, I win the majority of my matches with him.

it is heavily dependant on the skill of the player.  it's just that with players of near to equal skill, since there won't be a match-up of players of exactly equal skill, a higher tiered character has a better chance of winning, ruling out human error.

this is only for playing at the professional level.  they don't really apply to casual play.

[LemonManX]

The thing is...

How can items make it unfair if both players have acces to them?

I use Ness becuase he is fun as hell to use, I just love the look on his face when he PK Thunders himself

You touurney players have ruined smash, anyone remember the 64 days? That was fun!

Well, firstly.... when were we "tourney" players forcing you everyday Smashers to play with no items? Your free to do what you want... just don't go into tournaments hoping to be allowed to use items.

The items make it unfair because the game becomes about luck and just loses what balance it has. Sure, item hogging jerks can be beaten but its incredibly annoying when they go directly for the items.

Don't complain about us competitive Smashers when we don't force our ideas on you. Don't like how we play then don't go in tournaments.

[Dei Enyt]

another fact is that players are better than other players, and probably the very best dont go professional and keep it to themselves (not knowing they have so much potential)

You're not going to become the best playing with computers and your same group of friends all the time. You have to play with good players, which, in turn, will reveal your awesomeness to a wider amount of people making you famous eventually.

What if you don't wanna be famous? What if you're shy and don't want to be seen as "the world's greatest Smasher"? Is it suddenly so wrong to play Smash for fun?

As I said, your not going to become the best by playing "for fun" with your little group of friends who like to go to Hyrule Temple over and over again and play FFAs.  You have to play with other competitive people to get better.

Have you considered that some people see being the "best" at a video game as a worthwhile accomplishment?  Sure, I could sit on my behind playing video games all day to perfect my technique with a certain character or learn how to master some glitches, but I don't.  I'd be giving up more important things in exchange for playing a dumb game for that amount of time.  Heck, I've been playing an hour or two at most on a daily basis.  Why just that amount of time?

Because I don't care if I improve my technique or not.  I don't care if I'm not the best smasher in the world.  I don't care if there's money prizes for MLG tournaments or whatever.  I'm more concerned about having fun when I play the game instead of following some stupid made-up rules.

This isn't a matter of if you care about being the best or not. This is in Smash All-together, who the best is, and what you need to do to be able to become the best. You won't be the best if you just play casually. Besides, playing intense matches and practicing your technique can be fun. That all just comes down to preference.

And just how does whether or not the game is Smash determine whether I should care if I'm the best?  You can have your made-up tourneyfag rules; I prefer the unpredictability that makes the game fun in the first place.

[Jono2]

another fact is that players are better than other players, and probably the very best dont go professional and keep it to themselves (not knowing they have so much potential)

You're not going to become the best playing with computers and your same group of friends all the time. You have to play with good players, which, in turn, will reveal your awesomeness to a wider amount of people making you famous eventually.

What if you don't wanna be famous? What if you're shy and don't want to be seen as "the world's greatest Smasher"? Is it suddenly so wrong to play Smash for fun?

As I said, your not going to become the best by playing "for fun" with your little group of friends who like to go to Hyrule Temple over and over again and play FFAs.  You have to play with other competitive people to get better.

Have you considered that some people see being the "best" at a video game as a worthwhile accomplishment?  Sure, I could sit on my behind playing video games all day to perfect my technique with a certain character or learn how to master some glitches, but I don't.  I'd be giving up more important things in exchange for playing a dumb game for that amount of time.  Heck, I've been playing an hour or two at most on a daily basis.  Why just that amount of time?

Because I don't care if I improve my technique or not.  I don't care if I'm not the best smasher in the world.  I don't care if there's money prizes for MLG tournaments or whatever.  I'm more concerned about having fun when I play the game instead of following some stupid made-up rules.

This isn't a matter of if you care about being the best or not. This is in Smash All-together, who the best is, and what you need to do to be able to become the best. You won't be the best if you just play casually. Besides, playing intense matches and practicing your technique can be fun. That all just comes down to preference.

And just how does whether or not the game is Smash determine whether I should care if I'm the best?  You can have your made-up tourneyfag rules; I prefer the unpredictability that makes the game fun in the first place.

nobody is forcing anyone to participate in tournaments here, or to play by tourney rules. :|

My brother and I actually prefer to play without items.  it's nice knowing that an exploding capsule won't pop out of nowhere and kill me.  We don't play competitively, and we play with items sometimes.  (I always win though, ololo)

[GrimTuesday]

The thing is...

How can items make it unfair if both players have acces to them?

I use Ness becuase he is fun as hell to use, I just love the look on his face when he PK Thunders himself

You touurney players have ruined smash, anyone remember the 64 days? That was fun!

Well, firstly.... when were we "tourney" players forcing you everyday Smashers to play with no items? Your free to do what you want... just don't go into tournaments hoping to be allowed to use items.

The items make it unfair because the game becomes about luck and just loses what balance it has. Sure, item hogging jerks can be beaten but its incredibly annoying when they go directly for the items.

Don't complain about us competitive Smashers when we don't force our ideas on you. Don't like how we play then don't go in tournaments.

Okay I'll go eat my poop don't worry you don't have to do it  :|, sakurai wouldn't put items in the game if we weren't meant to use them

[Jono2]

The thing is...

How can items make it unfair if both players have acces to them?

I use Ness becuase he is fun as hell to use, I just love the look on his face when he PK Thunders himself

You touurney players have ruined smash, anyone remember the 64 days? That was fun!

Well, firstly.... when were we "tourney" players forcing you everyday Smashers to play with no items? Your free to do what you want... just don't go into tournaments hoping to be allowed to use items.

The items make it unfair because the game becomes about luck and just loses what balance it has. Sure, item hogging jerks can be beaten but its incredibly annoying when they go directly for the items.

Don't complain about us competitive Smashers when we don't force our ideas on you. Don't like how we play then don't go in tournaments.

Okay I'll go eat my poop don't worry you don't have to do it  :|, sakurai wouldn't put items in the game if we weren't meant to use them

right, but if you're playing a tournament, and you want to prove that you're truly better than someone else, you want as few variables as possible.  that means no capsules exploding in your face as you're about to finish them off.

[Eizweir]

they do, I just ignore 'em

[Shujinco2]

The fact is, every action results in an effect. That effect, depending what the effect WAS, leads to a WHOLE BUNCH of new actions, which, depending on which you choose to use, result in a different effect, until all of those actions and results combine together to form the outcome of the match!

And SOMETIMES those actions/effects have positive/negitave effects/actions that branch off of the original, resulting in a different outcome, in which can NEVER be calculated by no computer or ANY list!

In other words, it all depends on what happens that will decide the victor, and what happens comes from different people playing as different characters, NOT the tiers, or the basic IDEA of the tiers!

[Jono2]

The fact is, every action results in an effect. That effect, depending what the effect WAS, leads to a WHOLE BUNCH of new actions, which, depending on which you choose to use, result in a different effect, until all of those actions and results combine together to form the outcome of the match!

And SOMETIMES those actions/effects have positive/negitave effects/actions that branch off of the original, resulting in a different outcome, in which can NEVER be calculated by no computer or ANY list!

In other words, it all depends on what happens that will decide the victor, and what happens comes from different people playing as different characters, NOT the tiers, or the basic IDEA of the tiers!

Let's look at it this way.

A man can run 10 MPH.
A man in a wheelchair can go 8 MPH, but has better maneuverability.


Now, on a straightaway, the running man is favored to win, because he can go faster.

on a curvy track, let's say that the man in the wheelchair is favored to win.


That's how it works.

except that Fox is the man running 30 MPH while the rest of the characters in the game struggle to go 20.

[Shujinco2]

The fact is, every action results in an effect. That effect, depending what the effect WAS, leads to a WHOLE BUNCH of new actions, which, depending on which you choose to use, result in a different effect, until all of those actions and results combine together to form the outcome of the match!

And SOMETIMES those actions/effects have positive/negitave effects/actions that branch off of the original, resulting in a different outcome, in which can NEVER be calculated by no computer or ANY list!

In other words, it all depends on what happens that will decide the victor, and what happens comes from different people playing as different characters, NOT the tiers, or the basic IDEA of the tiers!

Let's look at it this way.

A man can run 10 MPH.
A man in a wheelchair can go 8 MPH, but has better maneuverability.


Now, on a straightaway, the running man is favored to win, because he can go faster.

on a curvy track, let's say that the man in the wheelchair is favored to win.


That's how it works.

except that Fox is the man running 30 MPH while the rest of the characters in the game struggle to go 20.

But what happens when, oh, lets say, the running man gets hit by a bus? THEN who wins?

[Jono2]

The fact is, every action results in an effect. That effect, depending what the effect WAS, leads to a WHOLE BUNCH of new actions, which, depending on which you choose to use, result in a different effect, until all of those actions and results combine together to form the outcome of the match!

And SOMETIMES those actions/effects have positive/negitave effects/actions that branch off of the original, resulting in a different outcome, in which can NEVER be calculated by no computer or ANY list!

In other words, it all depends on what happens that will decide the victor, and what happens comes from different people playing as different characters, NOT the tiers, or the basic IDEA of the tiers!

Let's look at it this way.

A man can run 10 MPH.
A man in a wheelchair can go 8 MPH, but has better maneuverability.


Now, on a straightaway, the running man is favored to win, because he can go faster.

on a curvy track, let's say that the man in the wheelchair is favored to win.


That's how it works.

except that Fox is the man running 30 MPH while the rest of the characters in the game struggle to go 20.

But what happens when, oh, lets say, the running man gets hit by a bus? THEN who wins?

the running men don't cross streets on their run.  this is on a circular track. ;)

i suppose if you're playing with items, they're running down a busy street.

but if you're playing in a serious match, where as many random factors are to be eliminated as possible, as to determine who can run faster, yes, the slower people win occassionally, but only if fox is having an off day.

[Depster]

but Fox also falls so fast, and his jump is so worthless.  Once he gets touched, boom, he's dead.  Too much fastfall

[Jono2]

but Fox also falls so fast, and his jump is so worthless.  Once he gets touched, boom, he's dead.  Too much fastfall

it doesn't stop him from being top of the tier list...