Tiers Exist. Fact.

[Jono2]

Ehh, I don't think that's quite how it works...  Even though the tier list is a guideline of sorts as to who is easiest to master, I still think that the top characters are better characters overall.  Pichu is low because he dies at criminally low percents, and fox is high because of his shine.

[thunderhero4]

Ehh, I don't think that's quite how it works...  Even though the tier list is a guideline of sorts as to who is easiest to master, I still think that the top characters are better characters overall.  Pichu is low because he dies at criminally low percents, and fox is high because of his shine.

ah, yes, i think that too... i guess dawei thinks otherwise tho...i dont believe in a character being better overall... :)

[NYOXIC]

When there is no player, yes, there are tiers.  But whn there are playes it's about the skill, not so much the characters tier.  If the player is amazing, and can beat the hioghest tier with the lowest, then it eliminates tiers.

[evilflame101]

So i think most of us can agree they exist, but they just have a different meaning then most people think, tiers are basically the learning curve, you have to spend a lot of time training to become good with pichu, and not that good to become good with marth, this also goes into the category or potential, Bowser, even though he seems really bad, if you master him, you can become very good with him, where as marth, you can play as for around 5 minutes and reach his full potential, and be pretty good. Another thing i want to bring up is finals smashes, it is very apparent that some are better then others. Look at pits, little guys fly at you, while samus covers the entire screen in a blast then becomes a new character, if you go down the list it is very apparent that some FS's are stronger, and better then others. But to get to the point tiers are basically learning curves, low tiers take more time to become good with, or take very experienced players to be good with.

[Cornwad]

So i think most of us can agree they exist, but they just have a different meaning then most people think, tiers are basically the learning curve, you have to spend a lot of time training to become good with pichu, and not that good to become good with marth, this also goes into the category or potential, Bowser, even though he seems really bad, if you master him, you can become very good with him, where as marth, you can play as for around 5 minutes and reach his full potential, and be pretty good. Another thing i want to bring up is finals smashes, it is very apparent that some are better then others. Look at pits, little guys fly at you, while samus covers the entire screen in a blast then becomes a new character, if you go down the list it is very apparent that some FS's are stronger, and better then others. But to get to the point tiers are basically learning curves, low tiers take more time to become good with, or take very experienced players to be good with.

Those little guys who fly at you are pretty powerfull... more powerful than Samus'...

[evilflame101]

well that wasn't the best example, but the point is, what your saying is that one FS is stronger then a different one, my point exactly.

[LemonManX]

Problem is, to become exceptionally good with even Fox, Falco and Marth their are little tricks and stuff that you need to master. Sure you could pick up and win with Fox... but to use him to his full potential you still have to put a lot of work into him.

[evilflame101]

Problem is, to become exceptionally good with even Fox, Falco and Marth their are little tricks and stuff that you need to master. Sure you could pick up and win with Fox... but to use him to his full potential you still have to put a lot of work into him.

yes but you have to put more work into becoming that same goodness with say pichu, or bowser.

[thunderhero4]

wow jono...what made you get the new icon.....?

[Dawei]

As LemonMan said, becoming real good with Fox or Falco isn't a piece of cake. Yes, you don't have to have a ton of skill to win, but to use them well you do. If I found someone who used Bowser and they were really good, I doubt I could just hand them a controller with Fox and have him drillshining>waveshine infinite to shinespike. Same with getting a random kid to pillar with Falco.

And if it's all on potential, then why isn't Gimpyfish winning tournaments all over the world? Because he uses Bowser, who isn't as good as Sheik for example. It's not only one or the other. You need a combination to become the best. The reason Pichu's aren't winning real big tournaments is because he is BAD compared to plenty of characters, not because "no1 has realizd his potntial or tayks tym 2 get gud with him". But if you can show me a video of a Pichu beating a good fox main/alternate (Ken, PC Chris, Mew2king, fastliketree, kdj, whatever), then I will believe you. Not a video of T0mmy beating some random kid at a tourney using Marth.

[Jono2]

wow jono...what made you get the new icon.....?

because I felt like changing it. >_>

[evilflame101]

As LemonMan said, becoming real good with Fox or Falco isn't a piece of cake. Yes, you don't have to have a ton of skill to win, but to use them well you do. If I found someone who used Bowser and they were really good, I doubt I could just hand them a controller with Fox and have him drillshining>waveshine infinite to shinespike. Same with getting a random kid to pillar with Falco.

And if it's all on potential, then why isn't GimpyFish winning tournaments all over the world? Because he uses Bowser, who isn't as good as Sheik for example. It's not only one or the other. You need a combination to become the best. The reason Pichu's aren't winning real big tournaments is because he is BAD compared to plenty of characters, not because "no1 has realizd his potntial or tayks tym 2 get gud with him". But if you can show me a video of a Pichu beating a good fox main/alternate (Ken, PC Chris, Mew2king, fastliketree, kdj, whatever), then I will believe you. Not a video of T0mmy beating some random kid at a tourney using Marth.

You basically took what i said and morphed it into your own thoughts... I said tiers are not how good someone is but how long it takes to reach there full potential, i am not saying that low tiers have higher potentials, because that would be a lie. the easiest way to put it, tiers are how long it takes to become professional level with a character. High tier's you cna become very good with in a little time, where as pichu would take forever to become good with, because of the fact he hurts himself and because of the fact that he dies easy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQhXYuH9PM0

watch near the end of this video, pichu owns roy.

THE BEST WAY I CAN DESCRIBE MY OPINION ON THIS TOPIC IS QUOTED IN THE ORIGINAL POST OF THIS THREAD, basically tier=AMT of skill required in order to own with said character.

[Dawei]

As LemonMan said, becoming real good with Fox or Falco isn't a piece of cake. Yes, you don't have to have a ton of skill to win, but to use them well you do. If I found someone who used Bowser and they were really good, I doubt I could just hand them a controller with Fox and have him drillshining>waveshine infinite to shinespike. Same with getting a random kid to pillar with Falco.

And if it's all on potential, then why isn't GimpyFish winning tournaments all over the world? Because he uses Bowser, who isn't as good as Sheik for example. It's not only one or the other. You need a combination to become the best. The reason Pichu's aren't winning real big tournaments is because he is BAD compared to plenty of characters, not because "no1 has realizd his potntial or tayks tym 2 get gud with him". But if you can show me a video of a Pichu beating a good fox main/alternate (Ken, PC Chris, Mew2king, fastliketree, kdj, whatever), then I will believe you. Not a video of T0mmy beating some random kid at a tourney using Marth.

You basically took what i said and morphed it into your own thoughts... I said tiers are not how good someone is but how long it takes to reach there full potential, i am not saying that low tiers have higher potentials, because that would be a lie. the easiest way to put it, tiers are how long it takes to become professional level with a character. High tier's you cna become very good with in a little time, where as pichu would take forever to become good with, because of the fact he hurts himself and because of the fact that he dies easy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQhXYuH9PM0

watch near the end of this video, pichu owns roy.

THE BEST WAY I CAN DESCRIBE MY OPINION ON THIS TOPIC IS QUOTED IN THE ORIGINAL POST OF THIS THREAD, basically tier=AMT of skill required in order to own with said character.

That's a FFA without teams and random people playing. You can hide and wait in FFAs and let them do plenty of damage while your safe(as Mewtwo did for most of the time. SHADOW BALL LAWL). I want a 1vs1 tournament match/professional friendlies.

Not to mention that was a horrible, horrible roy. He failed to tech all of his falls when it came down to 1vs1, had a horrible mind game,rolled to much, had about 80 damage more, ect.

And tiers are not just "the learning curve". Shiek is easier to learn than Fox, and yet Shiek is below him. I've recently picked up Pikachu and I've found him much easier to get good with than when I started playing Fox. And yet I have a horrible time playing with Marth.

But like you said, that is your opinion, and this is mine. And sorry for twisting your words. I was getting annoyed, and I usually intercourse  up around then.

[Eizweir]

This could be a Serious Discussion thread  :P

[evilflame101]

As LemonMan said, becoming real good with Fox or Falco isn't a piece of cake. Yes, you don't have to have a ton of skill to win, but to use them well you do. If I found someone who used Bowser and they were really good, I doubt I could just hand them a controller with Fox and have him drillshining>waveshine infinite to shinespike. Same with getting a random kid to pillar with Falco.

And if it's all on potential, then why isn't GimpyFish winning tournaments all over the world? Because he uses Bowser, who isn't as good as Sheik for example. It's not only one or the other. You need a combination to become the best. The reason Pichu's aren't winning real big tournaments is because he is BAD compared to plenty of characters, not because "no1 has realizd his potntial or tayks tym 2 get gud with him". But if you can show me a video of a Pichu beating a good fox main/alternate (Ken, PC Chris, Mew2king, fastliketree, kdj, whatever), then I will believe you. Not a video of T0mmy beating some random kid at a tourney using Marth.

You basically took what i said and morphed it into your own thoughts... I said tiers are not how good someone is but how long it takes to reach there full potential, i am not saying that low tiers have higher potentials, because that would be a lie. the easiest way to put it, tiers are how long it takes to become professional level with a character. High tier's you cna become very good with in a little time, where as pichu would take forever to become good with, because of the fact he hurts himself and because of the fact that he dies easy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQhXYuH9PM0

watch near the end of this video, pichu owns roy.

THE BEST WAY I CAN DESCRIBE MY OPINION ON THIS TOPIC IS QUOTED IN THE ORIGINAL POST OF THIS THREAD, basically tier=AMT of skill required in order to own with said character.

That's a FFA without teams and random people playing. You can hide and wait in FFAs and let them do plenty of damage while your safe(as Mewtwo did for most of the time. SHADOW BALL LAWL). I want a 1vs1 tournament match/professional friendlies.

Not to mention that was a horrible, horrible roy. He failed to tech all of his falls when it came down to 1vs1, had a horrible mind game,rolled to much, had about 80 damage more, ect.

And tiers are not just "the learning curve". Shiek is easier to learn than Fox, and yet Shiek is below him. I've recently picked up Pikachu and I've found him much easier to get good with than when I started playing Fox. And yet I have a horrible time playing with Marth.

But like you said, that is your opinion, and this is mine. And sorry for twisting your words. I was getting annoyed, and I usually f*** up around then.

you cant seem to grasp what im trying to say, im not trying to say that its necessarily how easy it is to learn a character but the ammount of effort taken to become very good or even just average. Falco you can just pick up and be decent with, where as someone with the same skill will just pick up bowser and fail horribly. The point is that it is not the character, it is the player, and tiers are just a "guideline" as to who is easier to play with, without any previous experience. but a low tier can easily beat a high tier if they have enough skill.